Kosuke Kitajima

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Karen Duggan — Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:45:15 GMT

As I stated in another post I think Aaron Peirson is a doll (which has nothing to do with anything), however I questioned his first turn as he swam. To me it looked like he glided a little too long into the first turn. I actually cringed when I saw it because I thought he might get DQ'd; which gets into the backstroke rule change thread I started... OK, I'm ready, fire away. (Remember, it's just what I think I saw and it's my opinion)

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Allen Stark — Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:33:43 GMT

I had always been(past tense) a big Kitajima fan so I don't think it is chauvinism to think the situation between Kitajima vs. Piersol and Hamm is totally different. Maybe Piersol should have been disqualified, it was close and if he made a mistake it was unintentional. Hamm did nothing wrong! The judges blew it and I think two Golds should have been awarded. Kitajima clearly and deliberately CHEATED.He got away with it,but he cheated.

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:32:38 GMT

Originally posted by hooked-on-swimming Originally posted by tjburk Hi Beth!!! No, once the race is over there isn't even an appeal process, because it is based on a subjective point of view. What kills me is, not only did one official miss it (the start) but then a second official (turn) missed it as well! Blind in one eye and can't see out of the other!!!!!! I can possibly excuse the one at the start because of the bubbles form the splash, but the second..... come on, which swimmer was he/she watching!!!! Sorry for ranting, but this one was too obvious!!!! And absolute KUDOS to Mr Hansen on his biting of the tongue!! Shred him in the 200!!!! Well, how about Aaron Piersol's DQ and the appeal process to give the medal back to him?So why was Piersol's illegal turn justified(or not illegal? again ... food for discussion)? Well, how about Aaron Piersol's DQ and the appeal process to give the medal back to him?So why was Piersol's illegal turn justified(or not illegal? again ... food for discussion)? What happened in Piersol's case is that the DQ was never officially accepted. Keep in mind that an official cannot just say "This swimmer is DQed." He must give the reason for the DQ, and the reason must be something in the rule book.

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:47:11 GMT

Originally posted by tjburk Hi Beth!!! No, once the race is over there isn't even an appeal process, because it is based on a subjective point of view. What kills me is, not only did one official miss it (the start) but then a second official (turn) missed it as well! Blind in one eye and can't see out of the other!!!!!! I can possibly excuse the one at the start because of the bubbles form the splash, but the second..... come on, which swimmer was he/she watching!!!! Sorry for ranting, but this one was too obvious!!!! And absolute KUDOS to Mr Hansen on his biting of the tongue!! Shred him in the 200!!!! Well, how about Aaron Piersol's DQ and the appeal process to give the medal back to him?So why was Piersol's illegal turn justified(or not illegal? again ... food for discussion)?And... hm... no one is complaining here... Honestly, would you even say anything, guys, if it was the other way around, i.e. Hansen winning over Kitajima the way it all happened?I bet we would't even see a post about it on the site. Just a step away from swimming to gymnastics - how come Paul Hamm's medal is being defended so vigorously, although everyone knows(including himself) that the judges' obvious mistake which is not even subjective insured his gold?

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:52:06 GMT

Hey Beth....if you hear hammering and nails being whacked....RUN...because these guys are building the gallows for us....

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:14:30 GMT

When Private Pyle says, "Full Metal Jacket" Turn around and run!

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Tue, 24 Aug 2004 06:40:23 GMT

Beth….I prefer the “Stick the bayonet in and shoot it out” style….

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Tue, 24 Aug 2004 06:40:03 GMT

Was that The Long Riders? Great movie.

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

swimr4life — Tue, 24 Aug 2004 02:41:52 GMT

Originally posted by gull80 Was that The Long Riders? Great movie. Yes! It is a good one!;)

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

swimr4life — Tue, 24 Aug 2004 02:29:44 GMT

A quote from one of my favorite movies...."Fire away and fall back!" I still say he should have been DQ'd! .....Kitajima that is! Not Peirsol!

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:25:30 GMT

Did anyone catch any coverage of the breaststroke leg of the Mens 400 Medley Relay finals? I was wondering if there was any underwater footage of Kitajima's 100 *** in the relay. His time was pretty 'smokin' fast. I think he was a 1/10 of a second so faster than Hansen. I don't know if it was the fastest 100 *** split ever, but it was probably pretty close!

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Sun, 22 Aug 2004 14:49:46 GMT

Originally posted by Allen Stark Speaking of dolfin kicks I do think Aaron Piersol took an extra kick before the turn where he was almost DQ'd.It was subtle & I doubt I would have noticed without the controversy. I'm not sure what you mean by "extra kick". The rules for backstroke turns simply say that: "During the turn the shoulders may be turned over the vertical to the *** after which a continuous single arm pull or a continuous simultaneous double arm pull may be used to initiate the turn. Once the body has left the position on the back, any kick or arm pull must be part of the continuous turning action. The swimmer must have returned to the position on the back upon leaving the wall. When executing the turn there must be a touch of the wall with some part of the swimmer’s body." Note that while it specifies "a continuous single arm pull or a continuous simultaneous double arm pull" (which would imply that only one arm pull is allowed), there is no similar provision regarding kicking. Historically, it has been ruled that any kicking that is done during the continuous turning action is considered part of it. So if the arm pull was not continuous, or was not directly linked to the turning action (i.e., if there was a pause between the arm pull and the flip), any kicking done prior to the pause would be illegal. But this would really be irrelevant, since it would be a DQ even if there were no kicking prior to the pause, because the turning action would not have been continuous. But if the arm pull was continuous, and was directly linked to the turning action, the only grounds for a DQ would be if there were a pause after the roll onto the *** and before the beginning of the arm pull, and if kicking occurred during that pause.

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Allen Stark — Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:00:26 GMT

Speaking of dolfin kicks I do think Aaron Piersol took an extra kick before the turn where he was almost DQ'd.It was subtle & I doubt I would have noticed without the controversy.

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:21:12 GMT

Has anyone tried to use a fly kick during the actual stroke? It is more powerful than a flutter kick right? Although I wonder if it might not be as good at keeping your feet/legs/hips up - therefore allowing more drag.

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Sat, 21 Aug 2004 14:40:29 GMT

Originally posted by LindsayNB Basically you can do whatever you want, as long as you stay on your back and surface within 15m. You don't have to swim back crawl! There was a great Canadian Backstroker by the name of Ross who used to swim for USC, he used to do a double arm backstroke. George Park www.swimdownhill.com

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Sat, 21 Aug 2004 14:31:27 GMT

Basically you can do whatever you want, as long as you stay on your back and surface within 15m. You don't have to swim back crawl!

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:51:32 GMT

Originally posted by Bob McAdams It is prohibited because it is not a legal kick for breaststroke. The reason you can dolphin kick after a turn in freestyle, backstroke, and butterfly is because you can dolphin kick when stroking freestyle, backstroke, and butterfly. You're never allowed to do a kick after a turn that you aren't allowed to do the rest of the time. You can legally do a dolphin kick on the backstroke (other than underwater off the wall)?:confused:

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:34:41 GMT

Originally posted by dreamer Why is a dolphin kick off the breastroke turn prohibited? In the other strokes I noticed a dolphin kick used after turning off the wall, or even at the start. Just curious.. It is prohibited because it is not a legal kick for breaststroke. The reason you can dolphin kick after a turn in freestyle, backstroke, and butterfly is because you can dolphin kick when stroking freestyle, backstroke, and butterfly. You're never allowed to do a kick after a turn that you aren't allowed to do the rest of the time.

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:45:32 GMT

Gastroenterologists repeat this "experiment" on a daily basis. The results are always the same--which is why they sedate their patients. The last thing you feel like doing after a sigmoidoscopy is going for a swim. I have had races where I really sucked wind, but I don't think that's what George is referring to by "air gulping".

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:29:36 GMT

Anyone notice how many Japanese swimmers are doing well in this Olympics? They are well trained and ready for this meet. The mens team has excellent swimmers in the ***, fly, AND back ... look for them to be a surprise in the Medley relay. They won't beat the US team but might sneak in a silver or bronze.

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:44:47 GMT

On the lighter side, Gareth, pickeled eggs and beer also work well. Absolutely deadly :D Leonard, great post!

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:41:57 GMT

The East Germans also experimented with sodium bicarbonate, a legal substance that acts as a blood buffer. It has been proven to work by just about every study. The unfortunate by-products of injestion of large amounts of sodium bicarbonate are huge burps and farts. Needless to say they did not use it! Yes they did experiment with air. Again I do not believe they actually used it in competition. Some ideas are just BAD:D I agree with Tom, Shirley Babashaw should be awarded her Gold medals stolen by drug cheats. This was proven in courts of law in Germany. These same coaches then wen to work for the chinese! Also proven drug cheats. The great breaststroker John Moffat was going to do a television documentary about 5 years ago, talking with many of the east German women who won but their lives were ruined by cancers and other health problems. At that time Shirley would not let herself be interviewed. Since then she was honored at the USAS Convention as the rightful winner of those Gold medals. The room gave her a standing ovation. She was the little girl ( youngest on the team ) who upon going into the womens locker room, came out screaming there are men in there. Of course it was just the East German women with their bass male voices! She was also humiliated when coming home to the USA by our wonderful media, who complained that she did not beat the East German girls and was a failure! Shirley has gone with her life and has become a great college swim coach. She is a true American Hero! God bless her.

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:39:35 GMT

Actually, the injection of air into the lower colon is NOT an urban legend. The East Germans tried it in the 70's but found that it caused extreme discomfort and cramping. They also found that it didn't really seem to help, regardless of cramping. In order for it to help, it would have to lower the overall density of the swimmer. Since the mass of the swimmer doesn't change, the volume would have to become greater, but this would also increase the drag of the swimmer because of the greater volume. (Think of what happens when you inflate your lungs fully vs exhale fully.) Also, since air is compressible, if you put reasonable volumes into the lower colon, the body's mass has some resistance to deformation. You may feel bloated and, in fact, may have some overall volume change but in this case you get less out than you put in. (No snide comments.) Source: When I was with the USOC, we had a *very* high ranking East German sport scientist/administrator visit in the mid-80's. In the interest of "openess" (what B.S.) we had a question & answer session with him regarding their sport science methods. One of our physiologists asked him about the air-in-the-lower-colon experiment and, despite the fact that he was a lying weasel S.O.B., he seemed truthful on the above answer. Some of his other answers were so patently nonsensical or evasive that we basically called the session early. -LBJ

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:36:07 GMT

i get enough hot air blown up my *** at work, really don't need it at the pool also (and mechanially no less)

RE: Kosuke Kitajima

Former Member — Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:10:24 GMT

Now this has real potential. A swimmer could study to find the foods that produce the most noxious gas - jerusalem artichokes and chilli beans washed down with WARM real ale would make a good combo. Then a well timed FART just before the start could cause other competitors to fall of the blocks, just like Ian Thorpe ! Thus giving one a huge advantage. To dispose of the rest, you would have to go out really fast to gain a lead and then FART into the water to snuff out the few swimmers that are left.:D I think i must try this at my next meet. I looked in my Fina rule book and there is no rule against this.;)