Legs Drop During Backstroke

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Mon, 02 Aug 2004 09:29:24 GMT

George- just goes to show that in Hamilton they'll drink... anything anyway any time any how...

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Mon, 02 Aug 2004 09:10:46 GMT

I once saw a guy balance a glass of Coca Cola on his forehead while he was on his back, he tipped it and it drained into his mouth and he drank it, no hands. I am going to search my old programs from the Hamilton Christmas swim program and find his name. He had another glass on his stomach and one in each hand and he drank them all... George Park www.swimdownhill.com

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Mon, 02 Aug 2004 07:44:36 GMT

You don't say if you have tried balancing these one at a time or all piled on top of each other ! I would be very impressed if it was the latter !:D

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Mon, 02 Aug 2004 05:59:37 GMT

"Have you tried using a half filled cup of water balanced on your forehead ? " OK here is a backstroker's game... What have you put on your forehead for "the balance drill" Myself: cup of water, a rubber duck, 1/2 pullboy, kickboard... feel free to add on...

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Rob Copeland — Mon, 02 Aug 2004 04:20:48 GMT

What have you put on your forehead for "the balance drill"???? Try a steaming cup of McDonald’s coffee. This way, even if you fail at the drill, you can sue for million$$. And I’m with Gareth on this one; I’d like to see this balancing act of a duck, in a cup, on a board on a buoy!!!

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:46:43 GMT

I agree, calling it backstroke does not help ! The very first thing that i tell new swimmers in my club is not to think of the stroke as swum on your back. The only time that you are fully on your back is when pushing off the wall underwater in the start or turn at all other times your body is rolling from one side to the other. Here, in the learn to swim programs, teach the kids to stay flat on the back and kick up and down ( leg kick ) and flat on back, circle arms. Then they expect the kids to make the leap to good body rotation linked with arm action.Their drill progressions are all wrong. Most every young kid i get Hates backstroke. I have to spend a few weeks teaching them to get on their sides and rotate well. Eventually they learn to love the stroke. Have you tried using a half filled cup of water balanced on your forehead ? With a bit of practice you can keep it in position when swimming full stroke and when swimming 1 arm only, and body roll drills with arms at sides. If the cup spills, you have allowed your head to move. I swim this myself and i will do all the drills with the cup balanced and then work on speed development to where i am sprinting at max. It is great fun especially for the kids. :)

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:29:55 GMT

But... It is the arms and where they enter and how they finish that makes the legs come up. Make sure each shoulder clears the water as you recover your arms and over reach with your hands, it surprising how your legs will come to the surface with ease. I have noticed a lot of backstroke swimmers clenching their teeth, relax the jaw it helps. George Park www.swimdownhill

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:55:34 GMT

Don't kick up and down ! I always have to re-educate kids who come into my club. They are taught to swim on their backs and kick straight up and down. I have to get them to realise that the kick is side to side, linked to good body roll and a strong arm action. The kids should all be taught using the total immersion method for backstroke as it sets them up to swim backstroke well and those are the drills that i use to correct them. In backstroke if you think of the kick as really a side to side motion it will work better. That is 3 kicks to one side, body roll, 3 kicks to other side, body roll. Practice it with arms at your sides. If you practice the stroke that way you will have strong kick co-ordinated with good body roll. The Marty Hull video on "Fluid swimming" at: www.zoomers.net really shows this and also will teach you how a scissoring type of kick can be used to trigger and aid the body roll from side to side. The other points about head laying back, not "sitting up" in the water are all valid.

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:28:34 GMT

A couple of suggestions... As you finish each stroke past the hips, you sould be rotated onto that same hip. Make a strong effort to just break the surface with that same hip/side that just finished the armstroke. You will find it very difficult to let the legs drop if the hips are high.. They are attached, according to the physiology book I read from. Also, think about the kick being two phases.. upbeat and downbeat. Now... most everyone on backstroke kicks hard on the upbeat towards the surface, but very few kick hard on the downbeat towards the bottom. By thinking about emphasizing both stages of the kick, you may find that this keeps better acceleration from your kick into your whole stroke, and keeps the kick higher up towards the surface and more in-line with the whole body. This will result in les resistance and easier acceleration. Disclaimer: I HATE BACKSTROKE! I know how to do it technically because of the many hours of coaching in my past, but I hate the stroke and see it as a great way to wreck a perfectly good IM. Rob

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 09:38:37 GMT

Here is a radical concept --or not: Despite having the name "backstroke" you don't swim it on you back... Here is what I mean, you are rotating from one side to the other as you are propelling yourself down the pool. Very little of the stroke is preformed on one's back. The big thing to understand is that swimmers who are not comfortable swimming backstroke do not rotate enough on their sides --while really good/great backstrokers seem like they over rotate their bodies. The secret to all this pretzel swimming is that the head stays stationary and everything from the shoulders downward is rocking and rolling. The arms should come to the midline of the body on recovery and enter in with a swish felt by the ear. The back is always slightly arched and hips pushed out of the water --this will bring the legs up. All this will be very exhausting at times but keep trying and watch the Olympics and just keep noting how they do it and bring some pointers into the pool for yourself! Good luck! Ali

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 09:31:03 GMT

Originally posted by Howard George. I'm just trying to understand the relationship between the entering/finishing and leg position. If I do neither and leg position is good then it seems to me there are stronger forces at play. Don't sit, keep head back, relax neck and jaw all seem to be more important. Water is surely a force to be dealt with. Imagine the chest, lungs as the fulcrum. Your arms, shoulders, and head are above the fulcrum the rest is below. Any movement by the hands even if they are below your hips are still operating above the fulcrum. If you lift your head fast your feet pop up then sink and as there is more weight in the body and legs they go down and you are floating upright.

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:19:43 GMT

George. I'm just trying to understand the relationship between the entering/finishing and leg position. If I do neither and leg position is good then it seems to me there are stronger forces at play. Don't sit, keep head back, relax neck and jaw all seem to be more important.

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 07:56:27 GMT

Originally posted by geochuck But... It is the arms and where they enter and how they finish that makes the legs come up. Make sure each shoulder clears the water as you recover your arms and over reach with your hands, it surprising how your legs will come to the surface with ease. I have noticed a lot of backstroke swimmers clenching their teeth, relax the jaw it helps. George Park www.swimdownhill Howard it's was an answer to someone swimming backstroke. If you are just floating and your legs drop use the fulcrum effect. If they don't sink great you should be able to set a new world record for the 100 back. George

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 07:45:05 GMT

Originally posted by geochuck When just kicking on your back stretch the arms over head touch your ears with your shoulders and tip your fingers up just out of the water, the legs should come to the top, I call it the fulcrum effect. George www.swimdownhill.com I guess I didn't ask the question well. Originally posted by geochuck "It is the arms and where they enter and how they finish that makes the legs come up" If your leg position is good when your arms aren't moving then how can your statement be valid. The arms are neither entering or finishing?

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 07:42:12 GMT

Try just floating on your back with your arms and legs spread eagled. Unless you are extremely lean, you should be able to find a position where you can just comfortably float. You will notice that in this floating position your eyes are looking almost straight up or even a little away from your feet. If you tilt your head towards your feet, your hips will drop . Remember the position of your head in the floating position and try to use that balance point as you swim.

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 07:35:45 GMT

Originally posted by Howard Then how do the legs stay up when you are just kicking if it depends on arm placement? When just kicking on your back stretch the arms over head touch your ears with your shoulders and tip your fingers up just out of the water, the legs should come to the top, I call it the fulcrum effect. George www.swimdownhill.com

RE: Legs Drop During Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 05:10:16 GMT

Originally posted by geochuck But... It is the arms and where they enter and how they finish that makes the legs come up. Make sure each shoulder clears the water as you recover your arms and over reach with your hands, it surprising how your legs will come to the surface with ease. I have noticed a lot of backstroke swimmers clenching their teeth, relax the jaw it helps. George Park www.swimdownhill Then how do the legs stay up when you are just kicking if it depends on arm placement?