pulling vs kicking

RE: pulling vs kicking

Former Member — Sun, 18 Jul 2004 12:06:32 GMT

Originally posted by laineybug I don't use anything, I just don't kick In high school my dad introduced me to a gentleman he said was an Olympic swimmer. He watched me in the pool one day and told me I had too strong a kick for my events (200 & 400 free). He told me to tie my legs together and do all my workouts with my legs tied. I spent the next two months practicing like that. I saw no noticable improvement in my times. In fact I later realized I had burned myself out because about a month after the season was over I jumped in the pool for the first time since the season ended and cut 3 seconds off my best 200 time. I know this is just one person's experience but there may be something to it. My kick is still my best asset. When I workout I do a 2000 meter swim and then a 500 meter kick. I don't use a pull-bouy because there isn't any available and I haven't been compelled to buy one. Swimming is excercise for me but I have been toying with the idea of competing. Maybe that will motivate me to buy one.

RE: pulling vs kicking

susanehr — Sun, 18 Jul 2004 01:50:46 GMT

My pulling is only faster than my kicking when I'm not wearing fins. We had a discussion at practice and noticed that most men can pull faster than they swim and most women do not. I have also noticed that a lot of swimmers kick with the bouy. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a pulling set?

RE: pulling vs kicking

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:12:35 GMT

Interesting point. I don't know how to answer that except that I have done pull sets with my coach watching and she never said anything about it. I don't seem to have any difficulty just 'turning off' my legs and concentrating on my stroke. In fact, when I've tried to use a bouy, fighting to maintain good balance is very distracting.

RE: pulling vs kicking

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:09:57 GMT

I don't use anything, I just don't kick

RE: pulling vs kicking

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:36:31 GMT

Geek, I don't use a pull bouy or a kickboard. The pull bouy throws my balance off terribly and the kickboard, no matter how I hold it always makes my back hurt.

RE: pulling vs kicking

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:09:37 GMT

I too have a weak kick. From observing the Olympic Swim Trials, one thing I and another masters swimmer next to me picked up on was the swimmers had very different kicks. Maybe those with stronger upper body, relied more on the pull and those with strong legs, used increased kicking to their advantage. In some of the 400 and 800 m free, you would see some barely kicking at all and some going at it quite a bit.

RE: pulling vs kicking

aquageek — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:03:50 GMT

I don't think that is such a good idea. The whole point of a pull set is to work on stroke mechanics (and, for me, to rest!). By dragging your dangling feet without any aid, I wonder if you aren't doing more damage to your stroke than good.

RE: pulling vs kicking

aquageek — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:08:20 GMT

What do you use on pull sets or do you just put a rubber band thing around your legs to keep from kicking?

RE: pulling vs kicking

aquageek — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:28:02 GMT

Pulling should, unless there is a problem, always be quicker than kicking. When pulling, you are lifting the legs with a buoy, therefore reducing the effort to move them along and enabling yourself to concentrate on stroking. When kicking you lose your arms completely and use only your legs to propel your whole body through the water.

RE: pulling vs kicking

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 09:09:06 GMT

I forgot that you were the one who started this thread.:) :p

RE: pulling vs kicking

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 09:03:32 GMT

Originally posted by Gareth Eckley Do this often enough and you will have abs of steel, women will swoon at your feet and your life will change. :D That's nice, but why would I want women to swoon at my feet? Lainey

RE: pulling vs kicking

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 08:59:23 GMT

Originally posted by Gareth Eckley ... Do this often enough and you will have abs of steel, women will swoon at your feet and your life will change. :D Wow, that is a really big gaurantee!:) I think I heard this gaurantee from an animal .... I think it may have been a moose.... he was selling me some kind of shampoo.....

RE: pulling vs kicking

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 07:22:42 GMT

You could try this drill for building up your core body strength. With fins try dolphin kick on your back for 1 length, hands in streamline, the n 25 of fly kick on 1 side, then 25m on your back with hands above your head ( in the air), 25m on other side fly kick, 25 on back, both hands in airalternating from behind head to at side. Rest a lot !, Then with fins 50m, fly kick 6 on back, 6 on side, 6 on back, 6 on side, REST. Then repeat above but with 3 kicks in each position REST Then, and this is the good one, get some transvers ab work, ON back with fins fly kick 50m, keep back flatish on the water and kick 1 to side, 1 straight up, 1 to other side, 1 straight up. It is the trunk rotation during between the kicks that is so great. REST Do this often enough and you will have abs of steel, women will swoon at your feet and your life will change. :D

RE: pulling vs kicking

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 07:18:00 GMT

Originally posted by laineybug What is typical for most swimmers, is pulling generally faster than kicking? In other word, should the time for, say 100m of pulling, be faster than 100m of kicking, or vice versa, or should they be about equal? Good breaststrokers normally get most of their propulsion from their kick. Those who are physiologically challenged with regard to breaststroke kicking tend to balance propulsion between the arm stroke and the kick. In the other strokes, the arm pull is a lot more propulsive than the kick. In fact, Doc Counsilman did an experiment a number of years ago in which he build a mechanism that allowed him to tow swimmers in a gliding position, both with and without kicking. By measuring the tension on the line, he could determine how much their kick was contributing to their propulsion at different speeds. He found that at speeds over 5 feet per second (that's 30 seconds for 50 yards), kicking didn't reduce the tension on the line at all, and in some cases it actually increased it. The conclusion was that kicking is not a significant source of direct propulsion when your 50y time goes under 30 seconds. Of course, kicking does provide an important aid to your body roll, which can, in turn, help to power your stroke.

RE: pulling vs kicking

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 05:45:21 GMT

laineybug -- My pull is faster. Way faster. Kicking alone for me is about half the speed of pulling. (Note: I have a lousy kick, and I only kick enough on my overall stroke to keep my tail end from sinking.) This has made kicking to be a very discouraging exercise for me, and so for years (decades) I have eschewed kicking. BUT! If I do kicking sets with fins (like zoomers) I can actually approach my normal swimming pace. (I can sustain 500 yards at 1:30 per 100 yards.) Since discovering this, I have been able to increase the amount of kicking I do in my workouts to the point that I do 1500 yards of kicking 3x per week. It is starting to show in muscle tone on my legs which have been pencil-thin sticks all my life. Yet I still have not been able to incorporate more kick into my overall stroke, and kicking without fins is slow as ever. As for back pain, I have learned to work through that. Actually if you read in swimming magazines they say not to use a kickboard because the curge in your back to hold your head up does put a lot of strain on your back. They say to put your hands in front of your head and put your face in the water, and come up for breath as needed. Even better, do your kicking ON YOUR SIDE with your lower arm extended in front and you top arm down to your side. Then to breathe all you have to do is tip your face up slightly and voila! Having said that, I admit that I haven't mastered that at all. I still use the kickboard in the traditional manner. And if I'm not careful I start feeling strain in my lower back after 500-1000 yards. So what I do is simply keep my face in the water and lift my head only to take a breath (and on turns.) If I start needing to pant, putting my face in the water is no longer practical, and then I just hold my head up. If I mix these up, I find that the strain on my lower back is significantly less, and I rarely get a cramp or spasm in my back, nor does my back feel weak afterwards.

RE: pulling vs kicking

coach guy — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 03:10:05 GMT

This has to do with weak abdominals. Your back muscles are overactive and your abs are under active. doing some core strengthening will help. As for board vs. no board, no bord is better for putting you in a swimming position therefore training like you swim but I like to mix it up a bit and do a little of both.