olympics and age-ism

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Fri, 02 Jul 2004 12:55:54 GMT

Peggy Gross of North Coast aquatics. She's in the 50 free and has swum masters as far back as 1993. The 37 year old is Ron. The 15 year old boys are in the 200 fly and ***. That is tough. Either the womens cuts are too easy or the usa women are swimming well.

RE: olympics and age-ism

knelson — Fri, 02 Jul 2004 12:51:18 GMT

Originally posted by Rob Copeland Women’s cuts are not easy! It has more to do with the number of superior athletes who choose other sports over swimming. Often great male athletes who swim will be swayed into other sports, while great female athletes will often stay with swimming. I knew someone would take issue with my statement :) No, the women's cut are definitely not easy. I still maintain they are easier than the men's. Not certain, but I do think females outnumber males in USA Swimming, but the ratio isn't as great as the differential at OTs. I can think of several male athletes who swam before switching to other sports. Kiki Vandeweghe (sp?), Tim Duncan and Lance Armstrong come to mind. I think they all made the right decision...at least monetarily!

RE: olympics and age-ism

Rob Copeland — Fri, 02 Jul 2004 11:09:40 GMT

Women’s cuts are not easy! It has more to do with the number of superior athletes who choose other sports over swimming. Often great male athletes who swim will be swayed into other sports, while great female athletes will often stay with swimming. And an argument could be made for lowering the qualifying times even more, since only the top 2 make the team (in most events). For instance, dropping the women’s 100 fly by one second from an awesomely fast 1:02.39 to 1:01.39, would drop the field from 76 swimmers down to 26. And while it’s unlikely that any of these 50 ladies will be beating Natalie Coughlin, Jenny Thompson, or Mary Descenza, just having the opportunity to swim in the water with these greats is well worth the price of admission. If you are interested, the psych sheet if posted on the USA-Swimming web site: www.usaswimming.org

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Fri, 02 Jul 2004 06:51:11 GMT

As I was looking at the entrants I started to wonder if Masters should have a booth at the trials. Too late this time. We could increase awareness and also start to recruit some of the older swimmers that may be ending their USA swimming careers after the trials.

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Fri, 02 Jul 2004 06:40:54 GMT

Thanks for the info. Howard. I liken the *older* athletes to The "SeaBiscuits" of the sport. Certainly they'll bring some positive attention to Masters Swimming. Aside from very respectable times, I think many people will be impressed with the youthful appearance of most masters competitors, especially the elite. It would be interesting to see a survey on how many USMS members get confused for looking much younger than their actual age. Perhaps the realization will soon be made that the fountain of youth has black stripes on the bottom and stinks like chlorine.:)

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Fri, 02 Jul 2004 05:11:56 GMT

Swimmers in the Mastes top 10 that are in the trials. 117 Foschi, Jessica Long Island Aquatic Club MR F 23 138 Gross, Peggy North Coast Aquatics SI F 35 144 Hansen, Erika Germantown Academy Aquatic Cl MA F 34 199 Komisarz, Rachel Lakeside Swim Team KY F 27 289 Price, Keiko California Aquatics PC F 25 292 Radke, Katrina Swimcraft PC F 33 351 Stone, Tammie Longhorn Aquatics ST F 28 352 Stowers, Julia Pilot Aquatic Club - Knoxville SE F 22 27 Busse, Greg Irvine Novaquatics CA M 25 35 Ciarla, Aaron Auburn Aquatics SE M 26 75 Flores, Bayani California Aquatics PC M 25 95 Greenwood, Scott Unattached PC M 26 101 Hall, Gary California Aquatics PC M 29 121 Karnaugh, Ronald Tualatin Hills Swim Club OR M 37 175 Muhammad, Sabir California Aquatics PC M 28 176 Mull, Cameron Santa Cruz County Aquatic PC M 27 198 Plank, Gregory Scottsdale Aquatic Club AZ M 26 226 Schumacher, Bradley Irvine Novaquatics CA M 30

RE: olympics and age-ism

knelson — Fri, 02 Jul 2004 02:58:32 GMT

Originally posted by Howard Swimmers in the Mastes top 10 that are in the trials. 117 Foschi, Jessica Long Island Aquatic Club MR F 23 138 Gross, Peggy North Coast Aquatics SI F 35 144 Hansen, Erika Germantown Academy Aquatic Cl MA F 34 199 Komisarz, Rachel Lakeside Swim Team KY F 27 289 Price, Keiko California Aquatics PC F 25 292 Radke, Katrina Swimcraft PC F 33 351 Stone, Tammie Longhorn Aquatics ST F 28 352 Stowers, Julia Pilot Aquatic Club - Knoxville SE F 22 27 Busse, Greg Irvine Novaquatics CA M 25 35 Ciarla, Aaron Auburn Aquatics SE M 26 75 Flores, Bayani California Aquatics PC M 25 95 Greenwood, Scott Unattached PC M 26 101 Hall, Gary California Aquatics PC M 29 121 Karnaugh, Ronald Tualatin Hills Swim Club OR M 37 175 Muhammad, Sabir California Aquatics PC M 28 176 Mull, Cameron Santa Cruz County Aquatic PC M 27 198 Plank, Gregory Scottsdale Aquatic Club AZ M 26 226 Schumacher, Bradley Irvine Novaquatics CA M 30 Some good names in there. I've got to send out a "good luck" to my hometown (Lansing, MI) boy Cam Mull! He's young enough that I never really swam with him, but I swam a lot with his older bros (or maybe I should say they swam circles around me a lot!). Another person I'd like to see make the team is Rachel Komisarz. I know nothing about her, other than she's a late bloomer! At 27 she still seems to be improving, and she's very versatile. She must be using VO2 Max shampoo :)

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Thu, 01 Jul 2004 16:13:50 GMT

Originally posted by Sam Perry My point exactly. We all seem to only recognize Ron as a masters swimmer and no one else. In spite of the fact that many of them (not all) have competed in USMS meets throughout the years. I think the answer lies in the frequency of times you've seen Ron at a masters meet compared to the others. Ron has been to many masters meets. Some have been nationals and others more regional. Out of sight, out of mind. If they paid the fee and have a USMS number then they are masters swimmers.

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:38:13 GMT

Here's some stats on age about the entries at the trials. Apologies for the formatting. Line up the headings with the numbers. It looks like there are many more women than men. 403 to 286. The oldest person is a male and youngest is female. That's pretty typical I think. >half are still 20 or less. 389 in that category. I thought there would be more over 25. Just 32 swimmers over 25. Anyway, I'm a geek for this kind of information. It would be interesting to compare to the last trials. The vast majority(just over 80%) could be registered as masters.It would be interesting to know how many have ever swum in a masters meet. Regardless of gender Count mean min max 689 20.12 13 37 gender mean min max Count F 19.26 13 35 403 M 21.32 15 37 286 agegrp mean min max Count 10-15 14.63 13 15 41 16-20 18.34 16 20 348 21-25 22.20 21 25 268 26-30 27.64 26 30 25 31-35 33.00 31 35 6 36-40 37.00 37 37 1 agegrp gender mean min max Count 10-15 F 14.60 13 15 38 10-15 M 15.00 15 15 3 16-20 F 18.13 16 20 235 16-20 M 18.76 16 20 113 21-25 F 22.13 21 25 121 21-25 M 22.27 21 25 147 26-30 F 26.80 26 28 5 26-30 M 27.85 26 30 20 31-35 F 33.25 31 35 4 31-35 M 32.50 31 34 2 36-40 M 37.00 37 37 1 age Freq Percent 13 3 0.44 14 9 1.31 15 29 4.21 16 38 5.52 17 52 7.55 18 94 13.64 19 81 11.76 20 83 12.05 21 95 13.79 22 89 12.92 23 35 5.08 24 31 4.50 25 18 2.61 26 6 0.87 27 6 0.87 28 7 1.02 29 3 0.44 30 3 0.44 31 2 0.29 33 1 0.15 34 2 0.29 35 1 0.15 37 1 0.15

RE: olympics and age-ism

knelson — Thu, 01 Jul 2004 04:19:51 GMT

Originally posted by Howard It looks like there are many more women than men. 403 to 286. The oldest person is a male and youngest is female. That's pretty typical I think. I take it Karnaugh is the 37 year old. Do you know who the 35 year old woman is? A couple other thoughts: - pretty staggering that 3 15 year old boys made a cut. Those cuts are tough! - Looks like the women's time standards weren't as tough, since there are so many women entered.

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:58:30 GMT

This is nothing against Dr. Ron, but why is he considered a masters swimmer and Josh Davis, Jenny Thompson, Gary Hall, Sabir Muhammad, Dara Torres, et. al. are never mentioned in the same light. Just because he has swam in masters meets and holds masters records is that the criteria? The way I look at it, he trains much like these individuals do, has the talent and deserves the accolades. These folks are doing/have done even more amazing things than Ron has at adavanced ages. Just a thought...

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:58:17 GMT

My point exactly. We all seem to only recognize Ron as a masters swimmer and no one else. In spite of the fact that many of them (not all) have competed in USMS meets throughout the years.

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:58:58 GMT

Originally posted by Rob Copeland Since Dr. Ron’ 2:04 is below the US Olympic Trials qualifying time of 2:06.99, he could swim the 200 IM at US trials in Long Beach. I guess I had thought of him going to the US olympic trials to try and qualify for the Polish olympic team. Interesting concept. Hope he makes it.

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:23:14 GMT

Originally posted by Sam Perry This is nothing against Dr. Ron, but why is he considered a masters swimmer and Josh Davis, Jenny Thompson, Gary Hall, Sabir Muhammad, Dara Torres, et. al. are never mentioned in the same light. Just because he has swam in masters meets and holds masters records is that the criteria? The way I look at it, he trains much like these individuals do, has the talent and deserves the accolades. These folks are doing/have done even more amazing things than Ron has at adavanced ages. Just a thought... Gary Hall and Sabir Muhammad ARE "Masters Swimmers." Did they not compete (and is some cases get DSQ's) at Nationals? Isn't the Race Club an official USMS team?

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 06:38:23 GMT

Yeah, Why arent they considered masters swimmers?

RE: olympics and age-ism

ced357 — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 04:15:30 GMT

I assume for one to be considered a masters swimmer he/she must be registered with USMS. Jenny T and others are not registered in USMS. I would believe that is the reason

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Tue, 29 Jun 2004 07:38:14 GMT

i don't think 100 im is an olympic event

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Tue, 29 Jun 2004 06:31:46 GMT

I see Ron went a 2:04 this past weekend in the 200 IM but he still hasn't made the Olympic cut of 2:02.5. Anyone know if he has another meet to make it?

RE: olympics and age-ism

Rob Copeland — Tue, 29 Jun 2004 03:43:06 GMT

Well it should be!

RE: olympics and age-ism

Rob Copeland — Tue, 29 Jun 2004 03:13:00 GMT

Since Dr. Ron’ 2:04 is below the US Olympic Trials qualifying time of 2:06.99, he could swim the 200 IM at US trials in Long Beach.

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:21:27 GMT

The aorta thing is kind of like saying "Jumanji" three times fast. You'll see an innocent one page thread turn into twenty something. :) loaded with medical jargon and lots of drama. In all seriousness, I think we'll begin to see more swimmers staying in the game longer just because not everyone is throwing in the towel at a young age. Perhaps too many people were convinced that swimmers in their late twenties were considered over-the-hill. I think we'll begin to see more "seasoned" athletes sticking it out in the shorter distance events.

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:11:25 GMT

Originally posted by dreamer What is the Aorta thing about? It's a very long story.

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:06:05 GMT

wow, thanks for all of your responses. I know to get to the olympics is a extraordinarily challenging feat. otherwise we would all be going. Its like that tom hanks line in A league of Their Own, "the hard is what makes it great". gull80: I used to swim in a summer league, and tried out for my high school team. I have always had a passion and competitive drive for swimming. I dont have great speed but my technique is good. But its just like Bob Mc Adams was explaining, that life sometimes erodes training time. School, family, finances, came before swimming. This being an olympic year, its just hard not to dream about being there. I dunno, maybe im naive, and just stuck in the "shoulda, coulda, woulda, what ifs." Time, i have.. Resources-lets just say, my parents are the best. and NYC is a great place to be. Aquageek: what i meant to say about age-ism is that, you generally dont see or even hear about older swimmers in competition. (older swimmers being 40,50,60 etc.) They deserve just as much if not more accolades as their younger counterparts. In many sports, it seems like if ya ddnt go for it at the "average" age/time, its just not going to happen. Although, I know there are many many exceptions to this rule. Whats is the Aorta thing about? sorry, im kinda slow today, haha.

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:52:26 GMT

Originally posted by dcarson On a Masters note, I went to the Oct. 2002 World Masters Games in Melbourne, Australia and was absolutely blown away when I witnessed many of the top elite Masters swimmers with near Olympic time were all swimmers in their 40s. I assume they were all "early bloomers?"

RE: olympics and age-ism

Former Member — Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:39:23 GMT

At the upcoming Olympic Trials, there will be many Olympic swimmers in the 30s (Thompson, Krazelberg, among many others). I think either in Swim or Splash magazine about 6 months ago there was an article discussing the myth that swimmers pass their prime in the early/mid 20s. It discussed that until a few years ago, there was so little sponsorship and funds available so most swimmers had to give it up and go into the non-swim working world to make a living. Some of these 30-something Olympic swimmers are still just as good as they were in their teens and 20s. The Olympics in Athens will be very interesting to see how swimmers of all ages. On a Masters note, I went to the Oct. 2002 World Masters Games in Melbourne, Australia and was absolutely blown away when I witnessed many of the top elite Masters swimmers with near Olympic time were all swimmers in their 40s. Although I'm a slow 36 year old swimmer still, it was awe inspiring to see such performance.