Shoulder dislocation

RE: Shoulder dislocation

__steve__ — Sun, 05 Feb 2012 11:04:07 GMT

She said that 'they' (whoever 'they' are) have seen increases in swimmer shoulder problems as stroke technique has evolved over the years. She said that newer stroke techniques are way more shoulder-driven, focusing more on an outstreched-forward-movement catch. She said that while this makes your stroke more efficient, its much harder on the shoulders. Your Md's conclusion, that efficient swimming (low drag, high leverage) is the direct result in increasing shoulder problems with swimmers (therefore the more shoulder friendly technique is inefficient), does not have supporting proof. I think the reason is because more people are swimming and incorrectly attempting efficient form. Efficient swimming means you don't need to use your shoulders as much.

RE: Shoulder dislocation

wnt2bfst — Sat, 04 Feb 2012 12:00:18 GMT

I also have yuckie shoulders. Not quite as bad as the issues this thread has, thankfully. I started weight lifting about 15 years ago. Ripped my left shoulder to the point that I could hardly raise my arms to take my shirt off. The shoulder would not lift the arm. Spent the next 8 months doing only leg work outs.(I hate leg day) Finally I went to see a doc who told me push ups, pull ups, bench press and the like are not important things to do in life. These things come with age. (at 40, really?) I decided to just go for it. I started going all out on weight training. The stronger I got the less shoulder issues I had. I started with 25's on bench to 3 45's on each side in 2 years. The most I ever have lifted in my life. (one time on my birthday) Whenever I would miss some work outs, the shoulder problem would start to come back. I am talking 2 or 3 days. (Diving my car I would find it hard to lift my arm to the steering wheel.) Now, for the last 2 years I have been swimming 3-4 times a week at about 4000 yards per session (that's all I can do with out getting a divorce) and lifting about once a week. Swimming has seemed to make the problem more chronic but not disabling. Just twinges of pain. I try to keep my elbows close to my body. Lifting weights may inflame the shoulders a little but i still seem to keep a full range of motion. But again, when I miss a few work outs it gets worse fast. Some day I will see a doc. What stops me is that I am cheap Don't want to spend the money (their only shoulders) and I don't want to lose what I spent the last decade building in rehabilitation time. Or maybe i am just a big chicken?!

RE: Shoulder dislocation

orca1946 — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 07:37:10 GMT

That is what ended my son & wife career in swimming. Get a full ortho check up 1st & then work on healing rather than covering up the real problem:worms:. You could make it MUCH worse:badday: by trying to do more without fixing what you now have,

RE: Shoulder dislocation

swimslick — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 01:43:16 GMT

Hello again - more opinions needed please and thank you :) So went to the doc and have been referred to PT again and the ortho surgeon. While there the doc gave some info that I find quite interesting. She said that 'they' (whoever 'they' are) have seen increases in swimmer shoulder problems as stroke technique has evolved over the years. She said that newer stroke techniques are way more shoulder-driven, focusing more on an outstreched-forward-movement catch. She said that while this makes your stroke more efficient, its much harder on the shoulders. I found this info quite compelling, since over the past 2 months I have actually been working with my coach to change my stroke in this very way. I actually saw myself swim on camera for the first time not too long ago, and learned that a) my stroke is rediculously straight-armed (yet still faaaar from Janet Evans' stroke lol); b) and I over-rotate, both in the hips and by crossing my arms over in front (I'll be the first to admit that I do not have the strongest core). So in working to make these changes to my stroke we did a lot of zipper drill (all the way up to the ears for me!) for high elbows and tighter stroke, one-armed drill to prevent crossover, and 'underwater dog paddle' to work on the outstretched scull/catch. But in doing some brief internet research, I've read that these newer techniques should reduce shoulder injuries! Were the new changes in my stroke enough to stretch out my tendons/weaken my shoulder, even though I was practicing proper technique? Or could this doc be on to something? What do you think?

RE: Shoulder dislocation

Former Member — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:08:58 GMT

A guy on our team dislocated his shoulder diving off the blocks. He was relatively inexperienced and had a long thin build with little musculature. He did a "superman" start (hands not together) and apparently had his palms perpendicular to his direction of travel. Impact with the water was enough to dislocate one shoulder. I do not know if he had a previous injury that would predispose him; or if he had any kind of health conditions such as Marfan's. I dislocated a shoulder after falling backwards on an outstretched hand (soccer). It spontaneously relocated and some prescription anti-inflammatories returned full motion in 48 hrs; but afterwards swimming was extremely painful as the arm would sublux on every stroke. Surgery, PT, 2nd surgery (loose screw), and good results.

RE: Shoulder dislocation

swimslick — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 03:25:22 GMT

Thanks everyone....I'm glad several of you can relate! :bighug: Did some Googling and determined that my shoulder has been subluxing/partially dislocating over the years, so I've never technically completely re-dislocated it thank goodness. But, this just means that my shoulder is basically unstable, so I really need to get real and acknowledge the big white elephant in the room I guess. Doc appointment is tomorrow. Hopefully I can determine the state of my ligaments and tendons....really hope there are no major rips or tears. Also hope to determine the level of activity I should be doing. I do the tubing/strenghtening exercises as part of my dryland 1x a week, so I'm not sure if that is enough, or if because I swim 4-5x a week now I am actually over-doing it and making my shoulder weaker. Coach put it in perspective for me yesterday and made me feel a lot better. :chillpill: Said there are tons of swimmers out there with shoulder injuries who are often regulated to strict kick workouts, and that it actually helps them to become better swimmers overall as they have the opportunity to greatly improve their kick. (I HATE kicking lol.) We'll see what happens!

RE: Shoulder dislocation

no200fly — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 10:42:30 GMT

I dislocated my left shoulder a long time ago. In my first masters meet it dislocated when I was swimming fly on a relay. It popped back in and I finished my leg. I have done exercises over the years to strengthen my rotator cuffs and I have not had a dislocation since. Here is a link to a video that discusses some shoulder problems and treatments: achesandjoints.org/.../

RE: Shoulder dislocation

__steve__ — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:03:17 GMT

Fully dislocated my left shoulder 10 miles out in the middle of nowhere in Moab UT (1992). Was lucky enough to have a MD ride by on a Mt bike. He reset for me. 2 years later (1994), it happened a 2nd time, again on a mtn bike. Went to ER to have it put back in socket, but only after waiting 3 hours through paperwork, x-rays, morphine sulphate and muscle relaxant absorption. For the following 8 year period, 1994 - 2002, the left shoulder had dislocated more times than I can remember (probably 8+ more times). It started getting worse and would occur doing daily activies like walking and sleeping! I learned how to reset it myself. Sometimes it would go back in nicely, sometimes it would tear it's way back into socket (my technique relax, grab something, pull, twist, and push the socket up with free hand). I furthermore conclude I have some big time damage. I also learned how to sleep differently, actually everything is performed in such a way to prevent it from happening. One time it happened at work (as a reservist working on the aircraft), I immediatly reset it then went to the clinic. They threatened to kick me out (I was hoping for repair) lol. About that time I started lifting weights to strengthen shoulder, and the episode prior was the final occurance - knocking on wood Started swimming 2008, but very cautiously. Each left arm strokedone with knowledge that any wrong movement will pop it out. It is limiting, for example, the full streamline position will dislocate it, and that I don't fully engage the left pull, however it has not dislocated in ten years. I contribute this success too weight lifting, for the most part, and to a lesser degree, swimming which can actually help rotator cuff stability if done correct. After starting swimming and since I taught myself the form, I developed a few severe incorrect stroke flaws mostly related to protecting the shoulder. Eventually my other shoulder started to ache from overuse/bad form and has damage, but proper form has positively addressed this. Someday I will have surgery, but now isn't the time for me. Avoid ANYTHING that makes it pop around like you describe. it sounds like it needs about a year of PT and healing before you even think about swimming. My suggestion, see your Md, then see some others. Get medically informed and updated. Know your limits and re-evalute swimming expectations at each point. Weight lifting was my best cure and allowed me to hang in there without surgery for such a long time. It can also be crippling if done incorrect.

RE: Shoulder dislocation

Allen Stark — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 03:54:08 GMT

Do not swim with it until you see the doctor.It is very easy to make an injury like that much worse.

RE: Shoulder dislocation

swimslick — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 02:10:20 GMT

Brining back an old thread in hopes of getting some advice/encouragement/words of wisdom.....apologies in advance, this is long! OK, so about 3.5 years ago I dislocated my left shoulder after I fell on it. Started PT as soon as I could, and also started swimming again once a week. (A blessing in disguise I guess, because this is what got me back into the pool after almost a decade.) I noticed three big differences after my injury: 1) a constant popping with backstroke; and 2) breathing more on the left side rather than right; 3) needing to be really careful when doing open back/*** turns when landing on the left arm as I could really feel the weakness then. So since then, my shoulder has been rather loose I guess. I'd say it has at least partially dislocated several times (once was when I was changing a light bulb, I had my left arm over my head screwing it in, and then I sneezed and it came out lol....but always outside of the pool). But I continued to swim 1x a week, because I noticed that my shoulder seemed to be more prone to popping out when I wasn't keeping up with my weekly swimming. (I am also assuming that it is in fact re-dislocating. When I think its popping out, I can feel a crunchy/tear sensation, but it immediately goes back into place.....longest its ever seemed out of place has been maybe 5-6 seconds tops. This does not produce intense or acute pain however. What really hurts are the days after, when it feels like I've been punched in the arm and I feel the pins and needles in my hand. So I'm not sure if its actually redislocating, or if its just tendons and ligaments moving around....because the pain I feel isn't really my shoulder per se, its more around the of my outside arm below the shoulder joint.) OK so fast forward to 6 months ago when I joined Masters. Shoulder was in great shape.....hadn't redislocated in a while, no pain, no backstroke popping. I would favor left side breathing while using paddles and would go easy on bk/br turns but thats about it. I assumed I was having no problems because my shoulder was nice and strong. So two weeks ago we did an 100 IM for time in practice. I wasn't thinking about it, and landed on my left arm for the back/*** turn and had a nice pop n' rip :( Went home, took ibuprofen and 2 days off from practice. I layed off the backstroke (popping was back) but continued to train with my sore shoulder.....thinking its just sore, no big deal. Then this past weekend I had my first USMS meet. My shoulder was still a little sore but I didn't think much of it since I wasn't doing any backstroke or IM events. However, while finishing hard into the wall for the 50 free, I again landed with my left arm and had another pop n' rip :( I'm not sure if this would have happened if I didn't mess it up 2 weeks earlier, but thats beside the point....its super sore now! Anyway, I will be scheduling an appointment with the doc. In the meantime I'm trying not to get too upset over this. I knew that when I originally dislocated it, things wouldn't be the same in the pool. But over the past 6 months I've really started to feel like a swimmer again, and it pisses me off that this injury could hold me back. At the same time, I guess I'm thankful that this never happened during my 'prime', I can't imagine going through this with a career on the line! Should I even go to practice tonight? I'm not sure if I should let my shoulder rest or keep it moving (taking it super easy of course). Thanks for letting me rant. :)

RE: Shoulder dislocation

Allen Stark — Fri, 25 Jun 2004 12:41:04 GMT

I dislocated my shoulder on a turn in the 50 *** at a meet when I jammed the wall with my arms straight. My orthopedic surgeon said dislocated shoulders are very common with swimmers as we tend to stretch the rotator cuff ligaments. I could do no pulls for 8 weeks & then only very easy breaststroke. It was another month before I was O.K.'d for freestyle & again starting easy. It was a year before fly was O.K.'d. Physical therapy with emphasis on rotator cuff exercises really helped. Good luck with your recovery.

RE: Shoulder dislocation

Former Member — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:58:45 GMT

Plain films will not detect a rotator cuff tear or a SLAP injury; you would need an MRI (with or without an arthrogram). A good orthopedist can diagnose this by physical exam in many (most?) cases. This sounds like a serious shoulder injury to me.

RE: Shoulder dislocation

Former Member — Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:31:29 GMT

I just wanted to thank everyone for the feedback. I am seeing a good chiropractor, and it is recovering- slowly but shurly. My range of motion is coming back. However, you never heal as quick as you would like. I'm sure everyone will agree with that.

RE: Shoulder dislocation

Former Member — Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:59:17 GMT

WHile a chiropractor may be good for some injuries--the shoulder IS NOT one of their specialties. You REALLY need to be seeing a medical doctor with a sports med background OR a surgeon who deals with shoulder injuries. The MD MAY recommend physical therapy and that's all the chiropractor is able to do for you. The Chiro, in many states, can NOT prescribe drugs (such as Bextra or Vioxx) that help reduce the inflammation, do an injection for either pain control OR to help diagnose the problem. If you're gonna tell me that the chiro took x-rays and read them--you really need help. Chiropractors ARE NOT trained radiologists who read x-rays for a living. Heck--even my sports med MD sends any x-rays to the radiologist for a firm diagnosis. My doc sees ALOT of x-rays BUT it's not his speciality and he may not notice something that a radiologist spots daily. In the world of medical billing--chiropractors usually treat backs and anything else is considered "EXTRA SPINAL" (shoulders, knees, hips, joints) is under another chiropractic classification. For your own health (and mind)==please see a medical doctor who can run the proper diagnostic tests. If your dislocation is happening frequently--you have a major physical problem that needs to be dealt with.

RE: Shoulder dislocation

Former Member — Sat, 19 Jun 2004 16:35:27 GMT

This sounds more like a tear to me, which may not heal without surgery. I would encourage anyone with shoulder pain to see an orthopedist who specializes in sports medicine. Untreated, even chronic tendinitis can predispose to more serious injuries (rotator cuff tears). Physical therapy can be very benificial in the management of swimmer's shoulder, since in many cases the cause is a muscle imbalance which leads to impingement of tendons.

RE: Shoulder dislocation

Former Member — Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:30:36 GMT

Yes! a dislocated shoulder bites! What happened in my case is that I would "pop" out my right shoulder every time I swam backstroke. This is also know as a "party trick". I eventually had to stop training due to bursitis and had reconstructive surgery. A lot has to do with a "weak" rotator cuff. There are lots of exercises to strengthen the rotator cuff, but have it looked at by a doctor and maybe a sports physical therapist. the shoulders take a lot of punishment (esp in the back, fly, and sometimes free) in swimming, this is something to take seriously if you are having troubles. Ali

RE: Shoulder dislocation

Former Member — Fri, 18 Jun 2004 14:56:31 GMT

I'd definitely visit a specialist about this if I were you. I had a very unamusing experience with my shoulder. I dislocated it initially playing another sport. It then came out a couple of times whilst swimming (fly, free). After a few months it started dislocating very easily (once whilst sleeping and once, would you believe, whilst sneezing!) so I had to have an operation to stabilise the shoulder. It then took about a year to recover full movement and to be able to swim properly again.

RE: Shoulder dislocation

Former Member — Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:16:55 GMT

What did your orthopedic surgeon say?

RE: Shoulder dislocation

Former Member — Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:42:57 GMT

Tendons and ligaments take a long time to heal, longer than muscles. I wouldn't be surprized if it doesn't take 8-10 weeks for things to heal up some, and needing to take it eaasy for another 6-8 weeks after that... sort of easing back into it.