How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Sun, 15 May 2005 16:12:31 GMT

Originally posted by mark_varney47 I'm a pretty bad swimmer with the following times: 100m Free 2.00 200m Free 4.10 400m Free 8.45 Just how much difference would having a good coach make to those times???? I think it is a shame that you feel compelled to define yourself as a "bad swimmer" simply because of your times. I believe that because you were able to post those times on this message board it shows that you got what it takes to accomplish your goals: a lot of raw nerve. I find it rather intimidating at times to be surrounded by nothing but elite super swimmers who can go on and on discussing the minute details of things like hand positioning till my eyes glaze over. If I were to judge my performance on my times then I'd have to admit that I'm a pretty lousy swimmer too, but I know that isn't true, so I never even think it, let alone say so. In fact I think I'm a damn good swimmer, and so do a few others, especially those who really know me. My priorities can easily be established by asking: What are my swimming goals? Why do I swim? These were the first questions that popped into my head for you when I read your post quoted above. It appears you spend quite a bit of time at the pool: forums.usms.org/showthread.php forums.usms.org/showthread.php forums.usms.org/showthread.php I saw a sign at a meet (apparently to motivate the swim teams there) that said: "Its not how many hours you put in, but what you put into the hours." I agree with this wholeheartedly, I definitely go for quality above quantity. It strikes me as completely insane to swim 120Km/wk (that’s 10Km 2x/day, 6 days a week!), but if your goal is to get a medal in the Olympics these days, then I guess that is what you have to do. Ref: forums.usms.org/showthread.php Does coaching help? All indicators say "yes", and as always: quality will get you there for sure. How many non-coached swimmers have gotten an Olympic medal? My guess is none, at least not in the past 10-20yrs anyway. Does this mean that you have to be coached to enjoy swimming? I don't think so. In fact I'm beginning to realize that I enjoyed swimming more before I got involved in USMS, which probably explains why there are so few people like me in USMS. I have never participated in regular, coached sessions in my entire life. At my very first USMS meet attached to a team the coach came up to me after I completed a freestyle event and said that I have about the best stroke technique that they have ever seen! (This still remains the highlight of my 6yr USMS career.) Perhaps they were not a "good coach", or maybe they were just giving me an "attaboy". But I have no reason to believe they were being anything but completely sincere, and I did not hear anyone on that team complaining, and that team had probably the highest percentage of faster swimmers than any other team in my LMSC at the time. So I'm back to this: Why do you swim? What are your swimming goals? If you believe (better) coaching will make you a better (faster) swimmer then by all means get a (better) coach. All I know for sure (based solely on my personal experience) is that if you do not have it unconditionally confirmed in your head that you will become a better (faster) swimmer, then you never will be one.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Sun, 15 May 2005 06:18:07 GMT

Hi Mark, Good to hear that you are still swimming. No luck in finding a coach or swim club yet ? Does your swim analysis video help at all ? Cheers, Gareth:)

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Sat, 14 May 2005 16:53:04 GMT

You know how important a good coach is when you experience a bad coach!

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Sat, 14 May 2005 10:34:23 GMT

I am self "coached". And believe me, my coach is bad. Plus, he makes me do sets I don't like.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Sat, 14 May 2005 10:13:23 GMT

I agree with most that a swim coach would be helpful. A coach will be able to give you tips that will improve the inefficiencies in your stroke. Those tips could help shave valuable seconds off your personal bests. Go for it. Find a coach and good luck.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

aquageek — Sat, 14 May 2005 02:22:42 GMT

Craig is correct, go without a coach or a bad coach and you will instantly realize the value of a good one. I think only great teammates are more important.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Fri, 13 May 2005 09:39:02 GMT

Originally posted by ande a great coach and program can make all the difference you still have to do the work. part of it is just you believing in the coach and working as hard as you possibly can. ande I agree, I also think that a good coach would have a good team and as a member of that team you can improve your swimming faster, and with a good coach the team would be more motivated and close together and that would make a stronger commitment of each member to train every day and harder, because the group would motivate each other. Something as the snow ball idea. :)

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

ande — Thu, 12 May 2005 04:31:12 GMT

a great coach and program can make all the difference you still have to do the work. part of it is just you believing in the coach and working as hard as you possibly can. ande Originally posted by mark_varney47 Hi, I'm a pretty bad swimmer with the following times: 100m Free 2.00 200m Free 4.10 400m Free 8.45 Just how much difference would having a good coach make to those times???? I've been swimming several and these are my best performances. Mark :(

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Tue, 11 May 2004 13:58:20 GMT

Originally posted by jean sterling ... However, the timing of my kick was way off, so that I would rapidly become horizontal, which isn't a good way to swim fly. ... Hi Jean, Can you elaborate on what you mean by horizontal fly? I'm wondering if you mean vertical fly as I thought horizontal fly was a good thing? In terms of increasing your distance how did you go from swimming 25m to 200m? Were you just able to swim further as your technique improved or did you follow a plan? Some of the things I'm considering are: swimming sets of 8 x 25, starting with lots of rest and slowly decreasing the rest swimming sets of 200 to 500 continuous, starting with a few strokes in each length and slowly adding more strokes swimming sets of 25m, then 50m, then 75m, etc. The second approach is described in an article on the H2ouston site and is similar to how you got to doing 25m, just over longer distances (500m in the article). My main reservation is that I find mixing fly with another stroke or body dolphining etc. makes it harder for me to concentrate on and improve my fly. On the weekend I was doing a set my coach assigned with 2 x (4 x 50, 25fly, 25free) and I found that by the end of the free I didn't have the "body memory" of the fly portion that I need to adjust and improve. I tend to learn better by doing endless repeats of the exact same thing, trying to absorb the feel, experimenting, and making little adjustments. The weak point of only doing sets of 25 at a time was I was dying in the final 25 when I swam the 100m. Perhaps a mix of sets of 8x25 and sets of 4x50 would help... I think I'm babbling. But do let us know the specifics of how you got from doing 25m to doing 200m.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Tue, 11 May 2004 13:33:31 GMT

I'm in the same boat on the masters coaching--that pool's 30 minutes away and "my" pool offers me my own lane close to home. I've compromised by hiring the masters coach to do one-on-one training sessions with me a few times. Highly beneficial, and I've found that one session with him gives me enough things to work on for a long time. I think I'd like the cameraderie of the masters team, though, so I may try it this summer.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Tue, 11 May 2004 12:31:10 GMT

I have the same problem with having no coach for the master swim team. I have been swimming all on my own for years without any help. This week I found the Y was having a stroke clinic for the childrens swim team. I asked if I could join them. It has only been one day but I already got some pointer on my stroke and found out some things that I was doing wrong. It is kind of strange getting in with all those kids but if I can improve my technique it is worth it.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Tue, 11 May 2004 12:06:42 GMT

I have looked around. The closest is about 30 minutes away as you said. Right now, I am spoiled with "my" pool being about 5 minutes away. No masters team there though.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

swimr4life — Tue, 11 May 2004 09:41:49 GMT

The cameraderie makes practice so much more fun! I love working out with my friends! We motivate and encourage each other so much. I used to work out on my own. A new masters team started so I joined it. My swimming has improved and I enjoy it much more! A good coached workout makes a HUGE difference.:D

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Tue, 11 May 2004 07:26:54 GMT

Originally posted by LindsayNB Hi Jean, Can you elaborate on what you mean by horizontal fly? I'm wondering if you mean vertical fly as I thought horizontal fly was a good thing? In terms of increasing your distance how did you go from swimming 25m to 200m? Were you just able to swim further as your technique improved or did you follow a plan? Absolutely I meant VERTICAL fly. And when I say vertical, I mean VERTICAL. Every time I took a breath my feet would sink down. I coul kind of blast a 25 fly in the 100 IM by not breathing much, but the second half of a 50 was definitely a problem. I didn't follow a real plan. What happened, I think, is that as my technique improved I found that I was able to go further with less effort and mess. It was real satisfying to swim fly and not look like something that needed to be rescued. Swimming sets of 25s with a gradually increasing number of fly strokes helped. Getting the kick timing down was a HUGE help. And the coach eventually sneaked in a 200 on me which included alternating one-arm fly drill and the whole stroke, which led me to believe that the 200 was a possibility. So gradually increasing the distance helped, but I would have been nowhere without improvement of technique. After getting the kick down I learned that I needed to not bring my arms straight back but to bring them back in an in-and-out motion. This wasn't as hard to learn as the kick, but it did help. This would not have happened without the benefit of coaching.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Mon, 10 May 2004 13:36:00 GMT

Originally posted by jean sterling ... Who says old dogs can't learn new tricks!! :-) Congratulations Jean. I am jealous. I am working on fly myself - but I don't get any coaching. Maybe I am doing more damage than good.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Mon, 10 May 2004 13:10:35 GMT

Originally posted by LindsayNB Hi Jean, How did you go about it and how long did it take? I had just started a thread on 200m fly earlier this afternoon! Thanks, Lindsay It took a long time - probably a couple of years. There was a lot wrong with my fly. When I was swimming on my own the coach of the kids' team at the Y suggested I swim one-arm fly as a drill, which helped a bit. Then I read an article in Swim Magazine about only doing as much fly as one could do with decent form - it said to start with just two fly strokes and finish the rest of a 25 with easy free, and gradually increase to three strokes, then four etc. I got up to 25 yards of passable fly. I would swim repeats of 25s like this. However, the timing of my kick was way off, so that I would rapidly become horizontal, which isn't a good way to swim fly. I would breathe every two strokes to try to alleviate this problem - also not good. Finally the Y got a coach that worked with masters swimmers, and he showed me the error of my ways. When I first tried kicking the right way, it seemed harder than ever, and it took a long time to get so that it felt natural to do it that way. However, the good news was that with my second kick timed better, my head lifted to breathe with much less effort and I didn't end up swimming horizontal fly - definitely a good thing! After I mastered the kick, which took at least a year, I began to work on not bringing my arms straight back. Later on I worked on improving undulation. Who says old dogs can't learn new tricks!! :-)

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

jim thornton — Mon, 10 May 2004 10:54:24 GMT

Hey, Paul. Why not check out the masters teams in your area? I would be surprised if you couldn't find a coached team within 20 minutes or so of your home and/or workplace. YMCAs, universities/colleges, even local high schools with pools often have masters teams. It's worth checking it out.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Mon, 10 May 2004 10:00:45 GMT

Over the past 14 years I have been coached by three very fine coaches. Not only did they improve my swimming with great workouts, they improved my swimming with positive motivation, leadership and goal setting. I 100 % agree with Bob, a good coach will help you improve your times significantly. Huge help!

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

MegSmath — Mon, 10 May 2004 08:38:33 GMT

Mark, I took several MINUTES off my distance freestyle times after the University of Kentucky varsity coach was kind enough to "fix" my flip turns. He improved my stroke too, but the single biggest thing was improving my flip turn. So it is well worth finding a good coach.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Mon, 10 May 2004 07:32:11 GMT

Originally posted by jean sterling I went from being just able to survive a 50 fly to swimming the 200 meter fly (long course). Not only didn't I fall apart, I made the top ten. It didn't happen overnight, but it did happen. Now that I have nice undulation and timing I find that I actually enjoy swimming fly. Hi Jean, How did you go about it and how long did it take? I had just started a thread on 200m fly earlier this afternoon! Thanks, Lindsay

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Mon, 10 May 2004 07:15:04 GMT

It's hard to say for sure without seeing you swim, but I'd be surprised if a good coach couldn't help you to improve those times significantly.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Mon, 10 May 2004 06:39:50 GMT

A coach helped me to learn proper technique for the fly, and it made an ENORMOUS difference. I went from being just able to survive a 50 fly to swimming the 200 meter fly (long course). Not only didn't I fall apart, I made the top ten. It didn't happen overnight, but it did happen. Now that I have nice undulation and timing I find that I actually enjoy swimming fly.

RE: How Much Difference Does A Good Coach Make???

Former Member — Mon, 10 May 2004 05:52:16 GMT

A good coach made a huge difference for me. When I started I was around 2 min per 100 M, after 9 months I'm at around 1:25. Times I never thought I could do.