New TYR suit. What do you think?

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:47:34 GMT

Not sure if anyone has seen this, but Adidas just put out a press release about their new high tech swimsuit 'JETCONCEPT' that Ian Thorpe will be wearing. They have some picture of Thorpe and the suit at the web site below - to find the pictures just use the sites search look for 'jetconcept' http://www.press.adidas.com Who's next ?

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:23:41 GMT

I guess FINA will have to do what NASCAR does (with the cars)--just give every swimmer the same suit, then inspect it before and after the race. Then they could line up corporate sponsors for the suits so you can tell one swimmer from the next (Michael Phelps in the Mountain Dew Fastskin, Ian Thorpe in the Target Fastskin).

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

knelson — Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:04:56 GMT

Originally posted by gull80 Then they could line up corporate sponsors for the suits so you can tell one swimmer from the next (Michael Phelps in the Mountain Dew Fastskin, Ian Thorpe in the Target Fastskin). I was just thinking about this the other day walking to the pool. A cyclist rode past me wearing one of those ridiculously garish outfits completely plastered with advertisements. I was thinking how nice it was that we don't have that in swimming. It's very prevalent in other sports like cycling, skiing, etc. In fact I remember meets in college where we used a Sharpie to black out the Speedo logo on our suits just to make sure we weren't violating any rules!

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:54:20 GMT

There is sure a lot of SPECULATION here on these suits. If you look at the Journal of Swimming Science there was a study about 2000 on the first Fastskin suit. Conclusion was it did reduce drag. Another conclusion is it probably only affects performance during the start and the pushoffs the walls, or when the swimmer is in a total streamline position. These suits will really help the butterfliers, backstrokers and breaststrokers that go the full 15 meters underwater. There has again been a lot of SPECULATION here on the attachments, and if these suitsaffect all strokes. Let be tell you they absolutely do. Did even one of you notice that NO breaststroker wears the full body siut:mad: That is because the suits are slippery that your own skin, and breaststrokers have found that coverying the calves and forearms are REAL bad news.

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:15:05 GMT

Originally posted by aquageek Let's be clear - a swimsuit does not enhance performance, it limits the impact of drag. Therefore, the suit acts more like skin, not a performance booster. That is grossly different than a ski jumping suit that traps air and contributes to lift. I'm not aware of any suit that increases performance, humans increase performance. I quite agree and thanks for summarizing so well the crux of the matter. These suits no more improve performance than lane lines. Better suits reduce drag, state-of-the-art lane lines reduce turbulence. Worries that some kind of 'attachments' or 'wonder fabric' will provide a real competitive advantage are misplaced until someone can provide real scientific evidence and at that point I suspect that such "proprietary" technology will be banned by FINA. Don't get me wrong there are good reasons to use these suits. One, it makes us less than svelte masters look like we're hydrodynamic and two, it greatly limits body areas that need to be shaved and therfore no "stubbles" that grow back in areas that do not enhance our spousal approval ratings.

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:50:05 GMT

Originally posted by gull80 Using that reasoning, the purpose of a shoe is to cover the foot, so I guess the track and field athletes should wear Keds instead of those high tech running shoes. And what about their body suits? Your analogy is a poor one for several reasons. First, the purpose of shoes is very different from the purpose of a swimsuit. There has never been any question that shoes are not just a costume for the feet, but a protective device that is designed to prevent foot injuries of various types. Second, "high tech running shoes" still cover only the feet, just like Keds. Third, no one in this thread has ever suggested that it is wrong to make swimsuits as high tech as possible provided that they still remain swimsuits. Until the late 1990s, the goal of swimsuit design was to minimize the effect that a swimsuit had on a swimmer's performance, and this was accomplished by using high tech fabrics that reduced drag and minimized water absorption. But suddenly in the late 1990s the goal became to create a swimsuit that would actually enhance a swimmer's performance, and to maximize that effect. A better analogy would be a "ski outfit" for use by ski jumpers which had a jacket and helmet that looked mysteriously like a hang glider. Bob

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:21:17 GMT

Originally posted by Matt S What about TYR's claim that their material achieves muscle compression, which some evidence indicates improves muscle performance? All of the competing "racing" suits make a similar claim (Speedo, Arena, Addidas, etc). My point is that I seriously doubt they are much different and most swimmerrs when given the choice select a suit that feels most comfortable. Re advanced suits versus the nylon suits. This is no different in my opinion than the current starting blocks versus starting from the edge of the pool are using those very tall wooden blocks from the 60s. Or advanced racing lanes that cut down on turbulence or better gutter systems, etc. In fact, the advances in pool technology might be just as important, or more so, then the advances in swimsuits. My point is that these suits are no different than other technological advances that have helped us all swim faster times (starting blocks, lane lines, advanced gutters, deep water, etc) and don't believe half of the what you read regarding claims of increased speed from one manufacturer versus the other manufactuer's suit.

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:24:39 GMT

Originally posted by Bob McAdams The bottom line is that the purpose of a swimsuit is to keep a swimmer's private parts from showing, and a "swimsuit" that covers other areas of the body has therefore ceased to be a swimsuit and is instead being worn to artificially enhance performance. Using that reasoning, the purpose of a shoe is to cover the foot, so I guess the track and field athletes should wear Keds instead of those high tech running shoes. And what about their body suits?

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:11:03 GMT

Originally posted by sparx35 all i can say is......jus get in the pool & swim it b***tch (When you posted this, I thought to myself, I hope they know he's joking, I hope they know he's joking!! ;) ) I tend to agree somewhat- while I'm not well-versed in the technological advancements which are made in swimming, I can't help but wonder, what differenced does it make? If someone is talented and trains hard, surely they will do better than those who compensate by wearing aids... When I first came to the States, i was amazed at the amount of toys that the average swimmer used at the pool, regardless of ability (I quickly caught up, though, and now have my own bag of equipement); I never saw this in Europe. I generally think that many people tend to focus too much on the the 'stuff'- to paraphrase Sparx, just swim and get on with it! peace....

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

aquageek — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:02:49 GMT

Let's be clear - a swimsuit does not enhance performance, it limits the impact of drag. Therefore, the suit acts more like skin, not a performance booster. That is grossly different than a ski jumping suit that traps air and contributes to lift. I'm not aware of any suit that increases performance, humans increase performance.

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

knelson — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:01:55 GMT

Originally posted by Msparks378 Sparx35 - your comment doesn't add anything to the debate and the language is not appropriate for this forum. I personally thought his comments were funny. I know I chuckled! Different strokes for different folks, I guess :)

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:46:23 GMT

Oh Sparx, it's so nice to see someone who can be politically incorrect without being personally insulting. Please keep up the good work. Seltzer and Aquageek, I admire your spirit and your attitude, and I agree that those of us with modest swimming ability would probably do ourselves a favor by just saving our money, shutting up, and swimming. However, I think someone may come along some day and create a forearm band that does allow a better grip on the water, similar to the effect of a rigid hand paddle. That is not to say that TYR has created that design for their current cutting edge suit. But, it's possible. Why do I think that? (Granted you may not care...) Well, I was a skeptic about the Fastskin/AquaBlade suits, and others of the same design, and their ability to reduce drag, until 2001 LC Nationals when I tried one. During warm-ups, I counted strokes per 50 meters, and I consistently used 2-3 less strokes per 50 with the Aquablade than without. And, I shaved for that meet. I believe those suits work, for someone at my level, because they have in fact worked for me. Maybe this TYR things works, maybe it doesn't. But, I will not dismiss out of hand the possibility there could be something new under the sun. I think this may be an issue for FINA because at the top of World Class swimming a couple of hundreths of a second matter. At our level, I agree with Seltzer's and Aquageek's ultimate conclusions, even if I don't follow the same chain of logic to get there. Matt

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:15:26 GMT

although i made a few people laugh with my last jibe...if you were offended msparks378 then i'm sorry.. on another note did you see that chick advertising the new swim suit???tell me where she is!!!!! NICE *SS... PS..sorry in advance...

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:24:18 GMT

Originally posted by aquageek Let's be clear - a swimsuit does not enhance performance, it limits the impact of drag. Therefore, the suit acts more like skin, not a performance booster. That is grossly different than a ski jumping suit that traps air and contributes to lift. I'm not aware of any suit that increases performance, humans increase performance. Well, that's exactly what Tyr is claiming for this suit. Let me repeat the part that Knelson quoted at the beginning of this thread: "By strategically increasing the surface area, TYR has increased his/her ability to pull without increasing any resistance through the recovery. Just think of it as ascending an aquatic ladder." They are saying, in other words, that the goal of the armbands is not to decrease drag, but to increase the pulling arm's drag against the water (sort of like hand paddles do). Of course, a manufacturer's claims about its own product may be false. But let's be clear about it: The armbands are either worthless, and therefore a waste of money, or they are a performance enhancing device, akin to a ski jumping outfit with a built-in hang glider. Bob

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:01:31 GMT

Arms and legs are optional!!!! Used only for steering and to keep your head from slamming into the wall!!!!:D

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:43:20 GMT

Hey, I'll take it if I don't have to use my arms and legs!!!:D

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:13:45 GMT

Can I get mine with a Berkely Pump instead of an outboard motor?:D

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:52:32 GMT

Lefty, Your Fastskin doesn't look mysteriously like a hang glider, does it? Or perhaps I should say a jet ski (a better analogy).

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:43:21 GMT

I have two sets of fast skin pants. I do not have to shave my legs when I wear them. I don't mind shaving my upper body. I know that I will swim faster with the suit on, so I choose to use it. What my competitors choose to do makes no difference to me: I am only concerned about myself. In terms of what breaststrokers wear: Hansen and Gibson wear the full length pants, so the theory on covering your calfs is just personal choice. Klete Keller only wears jammers, while Thorpe wears the entite body suit; I really think that it is just what feels best to the individual.

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:41:01 GMT

Originally posted by SWinkleblech I agree with seltzer. I think the companies are just trying to make us spend more money to make us think we can swim faster. I consider myself a slower swimmer and I don't think any swimsuit is going to help me break any records. If I thought they would then maybe I'll spend the money. But then again maybe everyone else would to and I'll still be the slower swimmer. I guess you hadn't heard that these suits are self-propelled (with the optional rotor attachment)--you don't even have to move your arms and legs.

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:04:26 GMT

I agree with seltzer. I think the companies are just trying to make us spend more money to make us think we can swim faster. I consider myself a slower swimmer and I don't think any swimsuit is going to help me break any records. If I thought they would then maybe I'll spend the money. But then again maybe everyone else would to and I'll still be the slower swimmer.

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

aquageek — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 05:51:03 GMT

Wow, it appears you are victim yourself of marketing. All this suit allegedly does is reduce drag allowing the same pull to be more efficient. So what anyway? The person still has to swim. If it concerns you that much, go don a pair of beach baggy trunks for the next meet. Might make you yearn for a simple old speedo. Sports is all about he competitive edge. Give into it, don't fear it.

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:18:41 GMT

If they were sleeves, they would BE connected to the suit. They are not connected and therefore are glorified "sweatbands." They push the envelope so far past what is honest and legitimate in this sport that it disgustes me; literally.

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:55:05 GMT

"...these new suits where everyone looks like some kind of marine mammal..." I'm still chuckling about this. "Marine mammal" - I love it. He's right, you know. The full-body suits are not nearly as attractive. And have you ever noticed that a swimmer in an Aquablade looks just like a speed skater? Or a bobsled/luge athlete? Or a downhill skier? Hmmm.

RE: New TYR suit. What do you think?

Former Member — Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:22:44 GMT

Sparx35 - your comment doesn't add anything to the debate and the language is not appropriate for this forum. Thanks