Atkins and Athletes

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:04:52 GMT

Originally posted by Mark in MD Hey Sparx23! Your note about Weight Watchers struck a familiar note. About 10 years ago, I was on Nutri-System, which is pretty similar to Weight Watchers, or Jenny Craig... I lost well over 90 pounds on that one. I get 20-30 lb fluctuations in last 10 years, but the bulk of the weight has stayed off. I'm quite happy about that. I'm working on the last 20 pounds of fat right now.

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 17 Jan 2004 13:10:44 GMT

I'm another WW loser. Lost 35 pounds last year, have kept it off 9 months so far fairly easily. I thought the points plan was easy, encouraging high fiber foods, but allowing the little bit of treat every now and again. Very doable to live with.

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:46:00 GMT

Hey Sparx23! Your note about Weight Watchers struck a familiar note. I lost just about 60 pounds (I guess you'd say four stones plus) on Weight Watchers. When I had lost about 45-50 of the total 60 pounds, I joined a health club/pool. That's when I returned to swimming after a 13-1/2 year break. (Of course, that's when I gained the weight, too.) So, I can say that Weight Watchers DOES work. I have spoken with a few Registered Dieticians in my professional field concerning the Atkins vs. Weight Watcher's diets. They feel that a total Atkins diet is an extreme. There is a place for bread in our diets, too. I have also learnt that one needs to work with moderate weight training, too, to build muscle tone. So, from this side of the pond, I have certainly walked in your shoes. I am sure no one will doubt that regular swimming will keep us from looking like Miss Piggy. :D Keep up the good work. I certainly have no regrets. Cheerio.

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:51:43 GMT

i have done atkins all last year,i now go onto weight watchers 123,reason..ive had enough meat already..love bread too..4 years ago i lost 4 stones(56 pounds)on 123 maybe i'll shrivell away this year..there again i do love bread.....

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 17 Jan 2004 06:51:52 GMT

Cynthia, You are pretty good on your assumptions. Those are part of the reasons. We can tract cow's milk consumption in all regions of europe and the world. There are large parts of Germany that did not drink cows milk. Up till the 1930's the largest immigrant group in the USA was Germans. Many Germans do not have the ability to digest the lactose in milk. Those like myself have a recessive gene ( I am half german - half scottish -all american) GALT enzyme (the enzyme needed to convert galactose into a form useable by the body The body breaks the lactose down into galactose and glucose. Glucose is the sugar used by the body for energy. Galactosemia means too much galactose in the blood caused by the individual "missing" the enzyme (known as GALT) to convert galactose into glucose. This accumulation of galactose is a poison to the body and can cause serious complications such as the following and if untreated, as high as 75% of infants will die: Remember seeing the photos of "starving" african children ater WW2 when the good old USA was sending ships full of powdered milk? The childrens bellies were bloated, but not from starvation. Those were the effects of milk on people who could not digest it.:mad: "Milk is NOT good for everybody". I ended up marrying a beauty queen winner from the Phillipines, both of us are recessive carriers of classic galactosemia, inheriting one normal gene from one parent and one gene containing the error that leads to classic galactosemia from the other parent. This person's genotype would be G/N and their enzyme activity would be less than normal, but not so much so as to cause medical complications or require dietary management. Out of four kids, one has galactosemia. Hence my knowledge of milk consumption. At the end of 1998, cases of galactosemia were recorded in 24 different populations and ethnic groups in 15 countries worldwide. The mutations most frequently cited are Q188R, K285N, S135L, and N314D. Q188R is the most common mutation in European populations or in those predominantly of European descent. A small ethnic group in Ireland, known as The Travelers, can be as much as 60 times as prone to the Q188R mutation as is the general Irish population. Genetics has many things I enjoy, history, geography, chemistry, all together. If you or anyone else is interested, look at http://www.galactosemia.org

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 17 Jan 2004 06:30:04 GMT

5,000 years is quite sometime. But I thought the development of Northern Europeans and Southern Europeans being able to digest cows milk is a develop more around 2,500 years or so. The Southern Europeans like the ancient Greeks and Romans and so forth were more likely to drink water and wine. The Northern Europeans, the Germanic peoples and the Celts drink milk more and beer. So, the descendents of both groups have different reactions toward cows milk based upon what their ancestors did. Its harder to trace 5,000 years since written language developed in Europe a little over 3,000 years ago and we have no records of what people consume before that point. However, maybe archaeological evident points to the two different groups having different drinking tastes earlier.

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:57:38 GMT

I just did a search in the site www.quackwatch.org, where the Atkins diet was listed as the Worst Diet for 2003. Where have you been for the last 15 years? The Atkins did not just get popular in 2003. Also, just what credentials does www.quackwatch.org have? I have always been interested in chemistry (my major) and anthropology (my major for a while). Man has not been a huge grain and sugar eater for over 60 years! There are huge groups of the world population that cannot digest cows milk because their genetics have not evolved. It appears at least 5000 years is needed for us to evolve using new food sources. We are still meat eaters. How come americans are getting HUGE on diets recommended by mainstream doctors? Alternative medicine is now very popular because they work. The atkins diet is not for everyone, but for some people it is the only way to loose weight, and still remain healthy. The US Congress funded studies on the three major types of diets, good carbs/low fat, the Zone, and Atkins. Every major study reported the Atkins people lost more weight and also lowered their blod cholesterol. These studies reported back in 2003, so much for quackwatch! I also know you can make top ten in masters and have strong workouts while on Atkins.

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:40:16 GMT

Originally posted by Mag Bowen jerrycat: what are some other whole carbs foods? You mentioned whole wheat pasta and oatmeal. Did you ready something about this? Do you eat fruits? --mag Your carbs should mostly come from complex carbs. This site has a relatively easily understood explanation: www.nlm.nih.gov/.../002469.htm Simple sugars wil give you quick energy boost, but should be used sparingly.

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:54:41 GMT

With a 95% failure rate among all dieters dieting, perhaps people in general really don't know what works for them. If you ask each person out of that 5% successful catagory what works--I'm sure there would be about 20 or more different themes. In my opinion, the processed, giant portions, hydrogenated fats, hormone inflicted foods and diet fads are a big part of what's caused this country so much trouble...along with more and more people becoming sedentary and increasingly stressed out. When I was a personal trainer--all day long people would come in and tell me they want to loose their spare tires, and fat thighs. None of them knew what to eat. Sure this was a specific sample of people, but rare was it that an athlete would come in and want to improve performace. This ultimately made me get out of it. "If I have to talk about abbs and fat thighs one more time!!" I thought over and over. (tangent there--oops!) Anyway--Mag, I think you were referring to what works for you, and that's great. It sounds productive. Now it's the keeping up with it that counts. jerrys

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:18:20 GMT

For you. There are others in this world for whom that bottom line doesn't work. Don't be so quick to put down the alternative that works for them.

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:52:59 GMT

mag, here's a list of them that have been recommended to me: sourdough bread rice pasta oatmeal brown rice yams beans--black, white, red, pinto, butter, lima and kidney legumes sweet potatos chick peas whole wheat pasta -if you want other bread, make sure it's whole grain with no white flour or corn sryup...probably hard to find, don't kow as far as fruits go I don't really eat them...even if I buy them I don't eat them, go figure. But here's a list of one's recommended: apples, cataloupe, cherried, grapefruit, grapes (organic only), honeydew melon, pear, mango, nectarine, oranges, papaya, peaches, plum, strawberries, raspberries, apricots (unsweetened frozen fruits ok) If you have a fax number I can fax you this grocery list...and the diet plan that I'm following. Thanks, Jerrycat (JoAnne)

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:40:19 GMT

Exactly. But, every diet doc has to have a gimmick, I guess. Atkins has that shock value: oh, I can eat eggs and butter and steak and cheese! South Beach Diet...well, the name says it all. Land of beautiful thin (and rich) people who can afford salmon night and day. I think staying really active and enjoying good, healthy food without overdoing it, keeping away from too much overprocessed junk, caffeine and chemicals (artificial sweeteners) is the bottom line.

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:17:36 GMT

jerrycat: what are some other whole carbs foods? You mentioned whole wheat pasta and oatmeal. Did you ready something about this? Do you eat fruits? --mag

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:11:56 GMT

The science behind the water weight issue is very well established. Carbs are stored in the human body in the form of glycogen (essentially glucose molecules strung together), mostly in the liver and muscle tissue. Muscle glycogen is bound up with significant amounts of water. The weight ratio can be two to five parts water to one part glycogen. If the glycogen stores are depleted (e.g., by prolonged exercise or starvation), this water is released. This mechanism accounts for water weight being lost when the diet is deficient in carbs. Still, it is correct to say that many people confuse the Atkins diet as a whole with the initial two-week phase of the diet, which is quite severely low carb. If these Atkins dieters then go on to re-introduce carbs, as prescribed in the latter phases, they could (could!!) very well end up eating a sensible, nutritionally balanced, calorie controlled diet. (This would technically require more fruits, veggies and whole grains than even the maintenance phase permits, however.) My point is this: why not just skip ahead to a sensible, nutritionally balanced, calorie controlled diet?

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:27:32 GMT

Talk about quack watch. I am so sick of reading articles that put forth unporven theory as fact. There is absolutely no real science that shows that you lose water weight on the Atkins diet. In fact, I think the opposite is true. More importantly, the Atkins diet that you will use for the majority (the maintenance phase) of your life is not even remotely close to being as resrictive as what is being touted in the media and by dieticians. Like one of the posters said earlier, talk to your doctor before going on a weight loss program and have him/her monitor your progress and to make sure that everything is going ok. Hook'em Blue

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:33:47 GMT

mag, that's really great that you were cranking so hard. those whole carbs really make a huge difference. Tonight I did an indoor bike session--everyone around me was dripping with sweat, and I was just cranking like a bat out of ... not hurting like the other folks. I swear it's the cleaner diet, and increasing the whole carbs. That enriched stuff is pure junk from a performance perspective...they might be tasty, but I'm believing the taste isn't worth the side effects of sluggishness and bloating--not to mention slower performance. The other day I had some junky carbs--man my whole afternoon was shot. I had to drag myself to the gym, and it took an hour workout to feel right again. Within the last 4 days I've done about 7 hours of work out--minus that one day of eating junky carbs--it's been a wizz. Whole grains, where have you been in my life? jerrys

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:57:12 GMT

Listen to your body.

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:42:08 GMT

LOL BARD Police: There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamth of in your philosophy. I AGREE COMPLETELY! Elaine

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:31:48 GMT

I just did a search in the site www.quackwatch.org, where the Atkins diet was listed as the Worst Diet for 2003. It's a great site, and I was going to mention it, especially Young's book, Medical Messiahs, which takes an academic look at the social history behind 20th c. quackery- he has some interesting things to say about health food stores, btw (my favourite type of store :eek: ) peace...

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:18:11 GMT

Shore up the walls and call a press conference, Aquageek and I agree completely on something! His advice to keep an open mind, despite the "conventional wisdom" about a given diet plan, but check with your doctor to stay safe, is right on the money. A lot of the diet advice out there is directed at the mythical common person (that is if it is directed at anything other that simply selling a lot of overpriced junk). However, an individual's body may not react to a regimen in anything like the "typical" fashion. As the Bard might put it, "there are more things in heaven and earth that your philosophy." I normally have a strong BS gag reflex for anything that sounds like a pseudo-scientific fad diet, but I have seen people use Atkins very effectively, at least in the short and medium term, so I can't write it off as a make money fad. Having said that, because you don't know whether your body will react unusually in a good or a bad way, monitoring by your doctor (assuming you have access to one for something like this) is a smart way to stay safe. Has anyone used the diet by blood-type approach? How did it work for you? My wife bought the book. I glanced at it, but I did not see really convincing scientific proof that blood type has the impact that the author claims. Matt

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:41:11 GMT

So maybe there is something to the Zone plan....although, I have read the book and found it difficult to understand. Too scientific for me. I think what you all wrote about common sense and a healthy mix is right on target. The past two days I've added some good carbs and pounded out a really intense workout today.

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:32:29 GMT

So, the most valuable carbs to eat are those of whole grains--like whole oatmeal, and whole wheat pasta (not enriched pasta). Right now I'm training for a half ironman that takes place in August. This training I'm doing is super killer. So, to max out my performance, I switched to oatmeal and whole wheat pasta. The performance difference is amazing. I've been really cranking in my workouts--really it's unbelievable the difference it had made. These cleaner burning carbs really help your body detox. With that said--Atkins will help a person loose weight. With a success rate of only 5% of all Americans who diet--it's an unlikely diet to continue for the rest of your life. I would imagine that if a person had a ton of fat to use as fuel, then it might not be bad. Dehydration is a big key though...and can happen if a person is training really hard, or racing for distance. I bought Dr. Phil's book, and it has helped my perspecitve.

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:27:47 GMT

A close contact of mine who work in a mega, mega, mega soft drink company advised me NOT to drink the diet version. NutraSweet, consumed in signifigant quantities over time can erode pieces of the brain, and destroy a person's ability to remember. Basically, nurtasweet is phramaldahide (how spell?). so, that's pretty scary--I've cut out the diet drink all together. And, it's funny--I worked for a man that drank about 5-7 diets a day...and he was crazy as a loon...couldn't find his keys EVER, and he would be in a middle of a meeting and pull and old sandwich out of his briefcase. Maybe the diet drink is what made him a wacko--who knows. In any case, my bodybuilding friends have advised me for maximum energy to eat carbs that are slow release, and not white flour. Anything "enriched" avoid 100%.

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:09:48 GMT

After posting what I did about NutraSweet I decided to google some and see what I came up with. The compound (I may be using this chemical term incorrectly, can't remember my chemistry, so all you chemists out there don't jump on me) itself isn't an alcohol. It is composed of two amino acids, phenylaianine and aspartic acid, as well as methyl alcohol, also known as methanol. If you are interested here is a link to an article about NutraSweet. www.chiro.org/.../nutra.html

RE: Atkins and Athletes

Former Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2004 06:34:45 GMT

There is no one approach to diet/nutrition that works for everyone. Each of us has to experiment to find what works best for our individual metabolism. Some people do very well on Atkins low-carb, for others it can be a disaster. There are several "metabolic typing" diet books out there that classify everyone as either a protein, carbohydrate or mixed type, with different diet recommendations for each. This seems like a sensible place to start.