May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:01:22 GMT

Craig, It's interesting that you point this out, because he's not the only advocate of using this coaching method. I find as a backstroker that the hands will always work in opposition to each other. As one hand is entering the other hand is exiting. The torso is relied upon for keeping a long line in the water. Very much like paddling a kayak. This thinking is in contrast to the TI method of freestyling where the lead hand stays out for as long as possible while it waits for the recovery hand to "catch up". I've played around with this about a year ago, and found it somewhat awkward especially in wanting to get a fast turnover going. Hands in opposition seems to work just fine for me. And perhaps this works well for the taller swimmers. (I've read the thread on height being an advantage, and although it may be debated, the answer in my mind is that height definetly helps especially when swimming with hands in opposition to each other.) My sixteen foot kayak will cruise almost effortlessly over the eleven footer.

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:28:27 GMT

Mike Bottom describes a drill using kayak paddles standing on the pool deck to reinforce proper arm movement in freestyle.

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

mattson — Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:09:10 GMT

ConnieKat8, check your personal messages. (You can delete it right away if you want, I just wanted to make sure you knew it was there.) Originally posted by valhallan There's no such thing as short choppy stokes to effectively gather speed when your dealing with the element of water. Unless you're playing water polo, gathering speed shouldn't be an issue. You are maintaining your speed (either from your pushoff, or from your previous stroke). But I do like the analogy. Watch an Olympic crew race, and compare their oar strokes, at the start (power) versus the middle of the race (efficient holding of speed).

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:57:10 GMT

Val, What you're saying makes a lot of sense to me! :)

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:31:18 GMT

Thanks. I've been concentrating on building an endurance base but I need to do more speed work like that.

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:26:26 GMT

One of my favorite non-swimming activities is kayaking. I sometimes can't help but think about the correlation between stroking the paddle on the kayak and my swimming. When I want to get in the zone and build up some speed, the strokes are loooong and the the pull is hard. There's no such thing as short choppy stokes to effectively gather speed when your dealing with the element of water. Too much splashing means that there's too much resistance. The thought of kayaking always crosses my mind now in the pool especially when I'm getting tired. The best way to hang tough on a repeat of two hundreds is to keep nice clean form. Swimming smoothly will win every time over effort when the going gets tough. I happen to be a backstroker which in my mind is very much like paddling a boat. Ride high in the water with your hips just at the surface, and paddle a straight course. Keeping the emphasis on stretching out rather than pulling water will ultimately lead to faster swimming. It's at that point that the strength factor will play an important role.

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:24:40 GMT

Originally posted by valhallan Sparx, The key to fast swimming is in maintaining that distance per stroke when the engine (torso and arms) increases in turnover. The fastest land animal on the planet (the cheetah) gathers its speed with loooong strides. The same holds true with swimmers. Since I'm not strong enough yet to have a very high stroke rate, I've noticed that when I put little extra umph into elongating, and stretching forward when I take the stroke, I get going just a tad faster. Beiing that I'm still building up, for now, I try to make my every 3rd stroke the extra long one, usually the one right after I take the breath, then the other 2 are there to try and not lose the momentum. As I build up, I hope to be able to do this every stroke.

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:15:24 GMT

Originally posted by sparx35 mines 14 for 25m breastroke.i think i counted 25 separate arm pulls for free=12.5strokes per length,i'm 6ft i don't know how good/bad this is? On freestyle I count, left arm=1 right arm=2 left arm+breath=3 right arm=4 left arm=5 right arm+breath=6 ... On a 100 sprint, I can do 9 then 5 on the the first 2 25's and on a 3rd 25 when I'm not as strong I do 1+7-3-3+flip breath 4th 25 I try for 9+5 again well... anyway, hope this makes sense...

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:33:46 GMT

Our coach has us do "speed work" on Wednesdays. The main set is (10) 100's on 1:40 with an emphasis on a controlled effort (not all out sprinting). . Since getting back into the swing of things about a year and a half ago, I've found that this pace is fairly manageable to hold with enough rest. When the interval gets tighter (1:30-1:20) it's more difficult to maintain anything much lower than 1:05's. I really enjoy competition and have put an effort on quality workouts. The weekly yardage is only around 15,000 compared to about 50,000 from school days. It would be very rewarding to approach those times again with only a third of the workout distance. I can only wonder if we didn't empty out so many beer kegs during our youth if we could have been faster? Our swimming and water polo squad could not only swim like fish, but we drank like them too.:D

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:58:50 GMT

At cruising pace my hundred yard repeats are right around a minute per hundred. That's pretty fast at our age. I haven't done that since college. What kind of interval are you using for those repeats?

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:07:32 GMT

Sparx, The stroke count on freestyle is tallied every time your hand enters the water. (Not every cycle.) Your stroke count is therefore still at 25, which can most likely be improved over time. I have gotten mine down as low as eleven because of a nice streamline off the walls. It also helps to be tall. At cruising pace my hundred yard repeats are right around a minute per hundred. But when it comes time to crank the arms faster, the stroke count increases by about 20 percent. The key to fast swimming is in maintaining that distance per stroke when the engine (torso and arms) increases in turnover. The fastest land animal on the planet (the cheetah) gathers its speed with loooong strides. The same holds true with swimmers.

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:42:35 GMT

mines 14 for 25m breastroke.i think i counted 25 separate arm pulls for free=12.5strokes per length,i'm 6ft i don't know how good/bad this is?

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:06:02 GMT

Thank you guys and gals for the encouraging words :) and sharing in the excitement. I hope it inspores some of you a little bit too. Slow Lane... yes, joining the tream is the best. About 2 years ago I spent some 4-5 months just doing laps, on my own, and never got past using fins. The fins are pretty much history for mr (unless doing cardio kicking sets, and want more resistance)... What gives me a thrill is when I pass by someone that is using fins, especially the long ones. (okay, shhh... my teammates don't know this) Since my team is hosting the 2005 master's nationals, my goal is to qualify for something there, one event (other than relays), the coach says we'll be swimming relays anyways, but I want to qualify on my own. I think it will be either freestyle or backstroke. I have no idea what event yet. Cinc, with you being in arizona, aren't we in the same USMS (what is it called... section.. is it SPMA?) perhaps we'll meet at one of the meets :) And, if you come to visit southern California, let me know :) You can always come and work out in our team pool ... well, it might cost you a breaststroke pointer or two ;) Jennyifer, Thanks for the good words. Havign the coach tell me my stroke is looking good was great to hear, especially since he's been correcting me on crossing my arms. Sounds like I have that fixed. I might get a time on a 100 free in ine of the relays, beforethe actual event... Heh, now I'm contemplating geting myself a real racing swimsuit.. for the meet. One of those with shorts, I think it's the fastskin... I dunno, we'll see. I'm hesitant, because in few months I'll be a difefrent (smaller) size. I dunno, maybe in november, there is a meet in November too. Oh, a question for all of you guys... What's the deal with the stroke count? is it something real significant? I just happened to count it today because of the breating count, as I was doing another 100 sprint (1:32), and it's 14 for 25 yards. Is that good, bad or indifferent? Does stroke count tell me anything? I keep overhearing about it, but I'm not sure what to make if it yet.

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

mattson — Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:59:02 GMT

Originally posted by Conniekat8 Oh, a question for all of you guys... What's the deal with the stroke count? is it something real significant? I just happened to count it today because of the breating count, as I was doing another 100 sprint (1:32), and it's 14 for 25 yards. Is that good, bad or indifferent? Does stroke count tell me anything? I keep overhearing about it, but I'm not sure what to make if it yet. Checkout any of the threads about stroke rate, stroke length, or TI (Total Immersion). (There have been many discussions.) I think 14 is fairly good, but it is up to you if you can continue to improve on that number or not. (What is your height, do you have a strong kick, wall pushoff, etc.) The other point is, can you maintain this stroke length while sprinting? The outdated school of thought was, if you want to go faster, you increase your stroke rate. (This is true for a sprint vs. long distance swim.) When that happens, your stroke length (and efficiency) start to decrease. Soon, you will put in a lot more effort, without getting any extra speed. Research has shown that elite swimmers go faster not because of stroke rate, but because their distance per stroke is much better. (A side note is that stroke length doesn't mean much if your stroke rate has dropped to almost zero!) TI and other methods teach you to swim more efficiently at low stroke rates, then try to maintain that stroke length as you speed up to a racing stroke rate.

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:08:04 GMT

Okay... more bragging... The coach sent us the weekly email newsletter today, and, I was almost mortified, he named me the swimmer of the week for the three C's award... Commitment-Consistency-Confidence. Flattered and embarrased! okay, back to the replies... Mattson, I'm 5'9" tall. I have a really really good pushoff and a good streamline. I'm still figting with my cardio. When I'm sprinting, I can clear the flags by almost a body length before I need air. I still have a long way to go to build strength and my cardio. My stroke (is it speed?) is still not very fast, partially strength issue, partially cardio. My kick sucks. It's gonna need a lot of work, plus I have relative small feet (for my height), they're only a size 7.5, and not very flexible (working on it). Both my arms and legs are on the long side, and my hands are actually pretty big. Okay, I just measured my hand... 4" across at the thumb knuckle, 7" long. I'm thinking, I seem to have a pretty good distance with my stroke, even though it is not a very powerful stroke, so as I get stronger, I ought to get more propulsion out of it, and be able to do it a bit faster. I've recently gotten the hang of better breating, so when I'm sprinting, I can do 9 strokes before I need a breath, then 5 strokes, breath and turn. I still have a hard time keeping up that pace for full 100yards, but it's getting there. Another side-note, about my conditioning and cardio... my resting heart rate is still up there... around 70+, so there's still a lot of room for improvement. I think I'm trying to second guess how fast I can get, since I'm setting some goals now, and trying to make sure they're realistic. And I'm trying to figure out where my strengths are... And, oh, I like to overanalyze things ;)

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:49:02 GMT

NO flippers in your workout.

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:39:02 GMT

Good luck on the meet. Too bad I live in Arizona, I would be happy to help you in breaststroke.

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:07:14 GMT

don't worry about having to swim 100 fr last after swimming all those events. 100 fr is my fav and best event and it was always one of the last events on sunday. but i had some of my best times at meets where i swam all my free events twice b/c of finals. i know how good it feels to be told your stoke looks good! i was at the pool a week ago and one of the lifeguards told me i had a beautiful stroke. it was especially nice because i have been working really hard on it and i always considerend myself to have rough stroke --> fast but definetly not pretty good luck at your meet! :) if you keep the excitement you have and keep your technique during your swims i'm sure you'll do awesome!!

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:43:49 GMT

Congratulations! Truly inspiring. I know that the short time I spent with a now defunct team did more for me than swimming laps on my own ever did. Your progress has suggested to me that maybe it's time to join a team again. Good work, Connie!

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:30:11 GMT

Be very careful, perception is reality. If you think you are too old, then you are.

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Thu, 09 Oct 2003 05:06:57 GMT

Well, the way you are sprinting you might go under 1:30 but you are right swimming other events makes you a little tired. I can't do my best times in workout anymore, guess too old at 46 years old. But you were doing times I was doing in a 25 yard pool. So you are improving a lot.

RE: May I brag? Wooo Hooo!

Former Member — Thu, 09 Oct 2003 05:02:09 GMT

I kicked the flippers to the curb a while ago... Except when the coach calls for them in the workout. We had a 400 free, 400 kick, 300 pull and 200 stroke drill for the warmup... I used the fins for the 400 kick. Besides, now that the blisters on my toes have finally healed up, and my kick is starting to gain a tiny bit of propulsion, I'm not eager to put them back on. I was floored though, when the coach told me that my stroke looks good. I think my jaw dropped all 13 feet down to the bottom of the diving well! In a week and a half we have an SCM meet coming up, I'm hoping to do 100 free around 1:40, maybe a tad better. We'll see, because I signed up to swim a 1500M that morning, then a 50 free, 100 free in the early afternoon, and a 400 free at the end of the day. Plus I'll probably end up in one or two relays... We'll see how worn out I get.