Paddles, gloves etc..

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:24:06 GMT

Eliana, How did you manage to quit London and end up in Florida with a lane all to yourself.I am now very envious of you.What Shakey says is true though.Forget going at a regular time,ie evenings ,weekends if you want to have a decent space between you and the next person in your lane.All of a sudden shift work where I would be free in the late morning/early afternoon starts to sound appealing.In fact the session that has the laest number of swimmers per lane is when my Masters club meet.

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:44:50 GMT

Shakey, Where you at? Sounds like a place to AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE, when I come up for orders. I've been lucky. I've always found a decent Masters team wherever I've gone (and everyone understands the ground rules there), and when I use lap swim time, I have not had the crowding or doofus issues you have encountered. Of course, I have also found that most people tend to get out of my way during lap swim. Is it because I am fast (my history at SCN's would indicate otherwise), or maybe because I am the doofus? Matt P.S. What is the plural of doofus, anyway? Doofuses? Dooffi?

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:27:55 GMT

I can second that, Mark! I also have horror stories from when I was swimming in inner-city London- some just too nasty to recount here! I'm very fortunate now- It's a bad day when I have to share a lane with anyone... Try not to quit, Shaky-

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:17:21 GMT

Shakey/ShariL, Guys, I have to tell you that the situation is just as bad over here in England regarding lane etiquette.At my pool we have three designated lanes for lap swimming,but you can bet that one will always be in use as a teaching lane for lessons.There is already a teaching pool that is separate,so that kind of niggles.What happens here is exactly as Shakey says happens over there.Once there was even a fight between two guys because one felt that the other was swimming too fast in the fast lane.What he meant was that his male pride was hurt and he couldn't stand being overtaken by the other guy.Don't you just hate it when you are in the fast lane coming up to the 100m split in a 200m freestyle set and some idiot decides that they will push off the wall and start doing the slowest breaststroke ever seen.:cool:

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:41:48 GMT

Originally posted by ShariL I didn't mean to be too hard on the newer swimmers that need fins. Good luck! :) Thanks; I'll need it! I can't wait 'til I can swim with the 'big kids' in lane two!! peace... :D

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:28:21 GMT

I didn't mean to be too hard on the newer swimmers that need fins. My point is that some people put them on all the time so they can keep up (or beat) faster people rather than properly work on their strokes. A mix of learning strokes with and without fins is going to help more than using fins exclusively, just to make intervals or beat other people in the lane swimming without. Good luck! :)

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:14:32 GMT

Originally posted by ShariL Why is swimming a contact sport at your YMCA? I have to admit I have a pet peeve with the swimmers on my Masters team that *rely* on the fins for strokes. They get them for *every* stroke set so they can keep up. Oh, but now they are leading the lane because they have fins on, and I am going last in their wake even though strokes are my strong point. I think everyone should learn the strokes properly first and THEN on keeping up with a set and using flippers occasionally, but not all the time. Hi ya! As a 'fin wearer' and new masters' swimmer, I just wanted to say,' I agree- I'd love to swim without them!' Unfortunately, some of us need to rely on them in the beginning... (for ex., I've discussed this with my coach, and he said that I need them until I'm stronger) so be gentle with us guppies! ;) peace...

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Sun, 13 Jul 2003 05:57:19 GMT

OK Shaky I get it! ;) The funniest part was about the swimmers who want to race you as you try to pass them. Is there an outdoor pool you can swim at in the summer? I love the summer when I can swim outdoors at the community pool...and our masters team is starting practice outside this week too (after pool closing). Are you swimming on a Master's Team? The etiquette there should be much better. I bet you would love this...our Y pool is 4 lanes. During lap swim, they do a double-lane in the middle...so now it's 3 lanes, 1 Fast, 1 Medium (double), 1 slow (with steps interfering in shallow end). Some of the swimmers love the double lane. To me, it is a waste of a lane. At our Y, the pool-sharing concept is an improvement because it provides many more hours of lap swim time than before, when the old aquatic director did not consider shared pool time (ie, 2 lanes lap, 2 lanes class). How about a college? Sometimes you can sign up for a class, and get free use of the pool/fitness facilities. It may even be cheaper than your Y!

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Sun, 13 Jul 2003 05:44:50 GMT

Originally posted by ShariL Why is swimming a contact sport at your YMCA? Bert understands and explained it pretty well, but I'll give you a more complete picture of the situation. At every one of the dozen or so pools I've used regularly in the past (including four other Y pools), people were for the most part courteous, traffic in the pool wasn't ridiculous, and you could expect to get a reasonable workout without stress or personal injury. At THIS Y, however, the pool is extremely crowded. Part of the overcrowding is because of unusually high interest in "swimming" (or some attempt at it), but a large part of it is because of poor scheduling on the part of management. The pool has six lanes. Each lane has a sign over it to designate the speed in that lane. There are two slow lanes, two medium lanes, one fast lane, and one very fast lane. The slow and medium lanes are on the outside, with the fast and very fast in the middle. As I mentioned earlier, I don't consider myself to be very fast; but at THIS pool, I end up in the fast or very fast lane because I am faster than the majority of people who use the pool. If I find myself in one of the fast lanes with people who are much faster than I am, I usually move, because I know how irritating it is to have one guy slowing down the whole lane. But that situation is rare for me. Unfortunately, this pool attracts a lot of inexperienced swimmers who pay no attention to etiquette guidelines on lane usage, and the lifeguards (who the aquatic director has told me are supposed to police the lanes) pay little attention to much of anything. Swimmers are supposed to enter from the shallow end, but people jump into the lanes from both ends of the pool without signaling their intentions to the people who are already there. You might be lucky enough to be there during one of the few uncrowded times and have two in a lane swimming side by side, and a third guy will jump in and start swimming circles without observing what the other people are doing and without making his presence known to them. One guy did this and ran into me head on. My "contact sport" signature actually came before that encounter, from several other impacts with other swimmers. There are an inordinate number of people here who use a monstrously wide breaststroke kick and kick under the lane ropes. I've been kicked several times in the sides and legs. Some sweep unusually wide with their arms under the ropes, and I have been hit, scratched and even had one snag my suit and pull it down a little. I've also been hit and scratched during wide backstroke pulls. Then there's the wide freestyle recovery over the lane ropes. I've had my hands smacked so many times there's no count. One girl hit me so hard it split my knuckle open. It's particularly bad when you get one of those guys next to you who thinks he needs to smack the water really hard to feel as though he's getting a good workout. Then there are the people who can't swim a straight line or who can't stay on their side of the lane. I had one guy cross over and miss me head on, but somehow he managed to hook his elbow under my arm. Smack! Then there are the people who want to "race" you. You get a chance to pass someone who is just poking along in front of you, but when you move out to the side they suddenly pour in every ounce of effort to keep you from passing. There's this one silly jerk who swims there regularly that I avoid like the plague because he does this. Once when I attempted to pass him, he turned his head and looked back at me, put on the speed and started moving toward the middle of the lane to crowd me out. He managed to stay just ahead of me to the end of the pool, where he did a really violent flip turn and tried to shove off into me. Speaking of that guy, he's a perfect example of the intimidators Aquageek mentioned. He will get into a lane with swimmers who are slower than he is and start doing butterfly. His stroke has a whole lot of splash in it and takes up almost the whole lane. He'll come up on them from behind slap his arms violently against the water to splash them. The jerk even takes other people's towels. And let's not forget the ones who push off the wall right in front of you as you're approaching for a turn, when they KNOW you're faster than they are. Their intervals are so important that they can't wait five more seconds for you to get off the wall. Or worse, I've actually had some that have taken off at the same time, so that two swimmers are suddenly competing for the same spot in the space/time continuum. All these problems with bad swimmers are irritating enough, but they are compounded by the sheer number of swimmers in the pool. At one point last week there were EIGHT PEOPLE in the fast lane, including me. There's supposed to be a limit of five, but the lifeguards don't pay any attention. One of them was blocking everyone while she used a kickboard. Another had these really long fins and was kicking up and down the pool backwards in a sitting position, with his head out of the water. The fins were so awkward that he and the fins got in everyone's way at each end of the pool when he had to struggle to turn around. I cut my workout short and left. The population problem is increased by the programs the Y schedules for the pool during the most crowded times of the day. Water aerobics happens in the mornings and evenings, during the most busy times for the pool, and takes up two lanes. Masters takes up two or three lanes. Adult swimming lessons take up one or two lanes. Children's lessons close the whole pool. The triathletes take up two or three lanes in the mornings. Some of these programs overlap, such that the pool has actually been reduced to two lanes for lap swimmers. On some weekends, which are already crowded with "family swimmers," they'll close half the pool for water safety instructor courses. I no longer go there in the evenings because of the overbooking of the pool. I was swimming in the mornings, but lately there have been way too many people in there. The only time when the pool is NOT ridiculously crowded is during the work day (except lunchtime), so I try to slip out of the office when I can. Why don't I go somewhere else? Convenience, money and a lack of suitable alternative. I pay $80 a month now (the most expensive Y I've ever heard of), but they're just about the cheapest in town. I tried going to one of the local high schools that has an open swim time. I walked in, saw people waiting to get into a lane, and walked back out. I found a pool that isn't very crowded, but it will cost me $135 per month and add a minimum of 90 minutes to my day to get there before or after work. In contrast, the Y is right near my office. My line of work has taken me to several cities, and nowhere have I encountered the kind of problems I experience here. To be honest, I'm swimming less and less these days, and actually considering giving it up until I can move away from here. Sorry for the long rant. It was going to be quick, but once I get started it's hard to stop whining.

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:50:49 GMT

People, people , people............. get a grip on reality ! Repeat 10 times slowly : There's no money in this, there's no money in this, there's no.......etc, etc. Shakey (Shaky??) knows all about boorish so-called "swimmers" who show up and make it tough for gentle people like me to get a decent workout. Swimming IS a contact sport when the pool is over-crowded and perhaps poorly organized. Now to the point : I'm planning on introducing a new line of products for "swimmers". Included will be the newer than new toe fins as well as fingernail paddles. For those desiring greater resistance when they "swim" check out our new tow behind you boat. (Trolling bucket included at extra cost.) Those new-agers with the ear-rings everywhere will delight in state of the art timing and wake-up music and head/hand position advice coming right to them through their jewelry. We never quit selling and answering the needs of our trendy "swimmers". By the way, what in the heck does "coom-bye-yah" mean ? And another thing...since when did "elite" become a dirty word ? Bert

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:10:27 GMT

Why is swimming a contact sport at your YMCA? Hmmm...about the swimming toys. I think if they make a swimmer more interested in his/her workout and keeps the person swimming, that's good. I think there's a place for them, as long as they're not overused. When I was swimming USS and HS (80's), we did train with paddles (say 1 set every other day for freestylers). I think it helped me because I tended to be weaker than other girls, and I was not injury prone. Fins are good but I think kick sets should be done both with and without. I have to admit I have a pet peeve with the swimmers on my Masters team that *rely* on the fins for strokes. They get them for *every* stroke set so they can keep up. Oh, but now they are leading the lane because they have fins on, and I am going last in their wake even though strokes are my strong point. I think everyone should learn the strokes properly first and THEN on keeping up with a set and using flippers occasionally, but not all the time.

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:48:23 GMT

Probably not. I'm not very fast. I'm just making fun of you.

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

aquageek — Sat, 12 Jul 2003 03:58:10 GMT

With an ego that size, it's a wonder you can fit your head into a lane by yourself. Would be interesting to swim with you some day and see just how "slow" I am compared to you. I have no pride, incidentally, and don't mind swimming in the lane where I am swimming with equals. Think you could hang in as my equal, Shaky?

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:16:29 GMT

Aw, it's all right. I suspect Aquageek recognized himself in my description and was embarrassed, having once shown up as a new swimmer with a whole bag full of toys he didn't know how to use, then getting into the fast lane and being frightened when the other swimmers passed him. He thought they should just wait behind him and that by passing him they were trying to intimidate him, when all they were really doing is just trying to finish their workouts. It probably hurt his pride to have to move to the slow lane, so he's taking it out on me here as a representative of all those mean, unsportsmanlike people who wouldn't wait for him in the pool. That's okay. Somebody has to be the slowest. :p

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:54:17 GMT

So, I guess I haven't been around enought...but wow! some people really get t-ed off don't they? Can't we all just get along? ;)

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Tue, 08 Jul 2003 13:47:57 GMT

Originally posted by aquageek However, the fact that someone is making an effort to improve their physical conditioning should be applauded, not ridiculed. Maybe a word of encouragement or invitation to participate with other Masters would help that person stay in the pool. Perhaps I should take them by the hand and lead them in a poolside rendition of Kum Ba Yah. I didn't ridicule people who are making an effort to improve their physical condition. I ridiculed posers who have no idea how to use the toys, or what they're for, who buy them because they think that the equipment makes the sport. I ridiculed those people who think that because they buy the toys, they are now "swimmers" and should tie up the fast and very fast lanes with their thrashing instead of moving over to the slow lane. I didn't ridicule anyone who is actually "making an effort." I ridiculed people who are actually making a minimal effort to improve conditioning, but making a huge effort to look the part. And I don't want to encourage them at all. My pool is too crowded to put up with them trying to swim in the fast lane when they can't keep up. There's a reason our lanes are divided into slow, medium, fast and very fast, and that is to designate a place for them to swim where they won't interfere with the people who really are making an effort (and who, by the way, usually know how to use whatever toys they bring). Some of us are in this for our own conditioning. I didn't join the campfire girls.

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:12:04 GMT

Just my 2c for what it is worth. The 1 pool toy that I never use is the Kickboard, which I feel is a total waste of time, does more harm than good. I use zoomer fins to help increase my ankle flexibility, to work on legs driving core body rotation and to build up core body strength. Sets of fly kicking on front, back and sides for ab strength. I also use them for sprint sets mainly to help me to increase my turnover and to become more relaxed when swimming at speed. The pull bouy I use very occasionally to test the degree of lateral deviation in my freestyle. Swim a length over the lane line, eyes closed with a pull bouy. If you have lateral deviation then your body will drift off the centre line. I find fistgloves useful, although recently I am using more fist swimming and opening to full hand in mid stroke as I am working on feeling the flow of water. I have been reading " Breakthrough Swimming " by Cecil Colwin and he has a fascinating chapter on flow control. I have been trying Finger paddles for a few months, an unexpected benefit I have found is in feedback for Coaching. I get my swimmers to use them while I watch from the pool deck, the paddles allow me to see exactly where their hands move during the stroke. This can be hard to make out when swimming with just hands. I am also teaching early Sculling practices to them using paddles and a pull bouy before they progress to hands only. I use the pool toys for very specific purposes, often to test my stroke and it seems to work OK. I also use the speedo stroke monitor watch on every swim and if anyone from speedo is reading this, I would love a new one! Another benefit is if you want to clear people out of your lane then swim fly with paddles! OK I have never done that but sometimes I am tempted!

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:46:22 GMT

In response to the original question, I have found paddles to be a useful tool. I coach an USS age group team. I have my swimmers use paddles a couple of times a week. The main reason I have my swimmers use paddles is because if you use a paddle, which does not have the wrist strap, and you swim freestyle with it and the paddle moves a lot, this is a pretty good indication that you are doing something wrong on your catch or pull. I have my swimmers fiddle around with their catch and pull as they try and not make the paddle move. If the swimmer is pulling "correctly" then the paddle should not move. Also, I have really bad knees and I use paddles to help me swim and take the pressure off of my knees.

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Tue, 08 Jul 2003 06:04:52 GMT

Kum ba yah, my lord, Kum ba yah...

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

aquageek — Tue, 08 Jul 2003 01:09:40 GMT

One person's minimal effort is another's maximum effort and it's not for you to judge. YMCA pools are not just for Masters swimmers. You do, of course, realize the Y mission is "to put Christian principles into practice through programs that build health spirit, mind and body for all." I suggest you keep this in mind as you look down on those you don't feel are worthy of swimming with you. I've seen swimmers like you from time to time chasing down slower swimmers and doing all you can to intimidate less capable participants. It's boorish behavior. The "thems" and "theys" you refer to are fellow Y members and have just as much right to swim with you as a fast swimmer. You can't complain about swimming at a Y, you get all abilities there. I suggest you join a swim club that caters to elite swimmers like yourself so you can avoid the riff-raff you obviously have to suffer with daily.

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:28:51 GMT

Originally posted by aquageek I have read Shaky's two posts ridiculing other swimmers with disgust. It is easy to recognize the new swimmer (especially around January 1). And, usually by this time of year, the regular crowd is all that is left and the newbies have long dropped out. However, the fact that someone is making an effort to improve their physical conditioning should be applauded, not ridiculed. Maybe a word of encouragement or invitation to participate with other Masters would help that person stay in the pool. I have found that if you truly want to see an impressive collection of pool toys, go to a Masters workout. Hi ya, maybe I shouldn't jump in here- but I will :D whilst i understand your concern regarding the apparent sarcasm in Shaky's post (it's not nice to make fun of ANYONE :( )- i interpreted it more to be a comment on the overreliance of training aids in the absence of actual hard work in order to look good- i must admit that i never even knew that many of these training aids existed until i came to the States; however, i do use many of them now (under the guidance of a Masters coach) and, when used in moderation, can be very useful.

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

aquageek — Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:40:45 GMT

I have read Shaky's two posts ridiculing other swimmers with disgust. It is easy to recognize the new swimmer (especially around January 1). And, usually by this time of year, the regular crowd is all that is left and the newbies have long dropped out. However, the fact that someone is making an effort to improve their physical conditioning should be applauded, not ridiculed. Maybe a word of encouragement or invitation to participate with other Masters would help that person stay in the pool. I have found that if you truly want to see an impressive collection of pool toys, go to a Masters workout.

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:28:52 GMT

Shaky>The pool also has a variety of colorful noodles. Shaky> I mention them because I have seen some of Shaky>those new lap swimmers trying to use them in a Shaky> variety of ways during their workouts. It looks Shaky> rather strange to see some guy thrashing Shaky> violently about with a big purple tail ... When our coach has had a bad day at work, he makes us kick with a couple of those noodles under our arm pits. The justification for this form of torture is that it helps us keep our hips up while kicking. Another drill he has us do is to do a *** stroke pull while flutter kicking with the noodle under our arm pits. This is sort of like the lane line pull drill except you can also work on keeping your hips up at the same time. This is actually a good drill. So the noodles are not worthless for swimmers. I wonder if any swim coach has found a use for those dumb bells? When I am on the road, they are guaranteed to be there, unlike kick boards, pull buoys or those noodles.

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Sun, 06 Jul 2003 13:49:22 GMT

Originally posted by SearayPaul Kick board, I use what ever board a kid left at the pool after practice... Pullboy, same as kick board. I am fortunate, I guess, that my pool provides both kick boards and pull bouys. The kick boards are those dense hard foam kind that are shaped like gravestones and always have fingernail indentations in the end of them. The bouys are also made of foam and have teeth marks in them from where the kids have played with them. Maybe those things look like food, but I don't see it myself. I noticed one of the kickboards has a dental impression also; that kid must have had a pretty strong bite. The pool also has a variety of colorful noodles and foam water "weights," those dumbell-shaped floating foam devices used by the old ladies in the water aerobics class. I mention them because I have seen some of those new lap swimmers trying to use them in a variety of ways during their workouts. It looks rather strange to see some guy thrashing violently about with a big purple tail or with foam dumbells in his hands. Add a snorkel and mask to that purple tail and for a moment you'd think you just saw a water monster. :p

RE: Paddles, gloves etc..

Former Member — Sat, 05 Jul 2003 16:54:22 GMT

I believe the addage "anything in moderation won't hurt you". "Pool toys" can have many beneficial aspects, not the least is providing variety. 10 or more years at 10 000 metres per week can become a drone for anyone...fins and paddle are great for variety, feeling speed, magnifying different stroke/kick parts, etc. etc. But again, with pool toys, less is more. Shaky's post was a chuckle. Worst is the twit with paddles and a wide arm recovery: he/she is the modern day aqua-guillotine! This type usually hogs the middle of the lane, too. Maybe that's a thread - pet peeves in the pool.