Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

swimcat — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:42:10 GMT

I use them for IM sets. It takes the pressure off my "glass shoulder". I think with me it is an age thing. 10 yrs. ago, I never would have put on a pair unless it was dictated. I also have some monofins but haven't used them in quite a while.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Former Member — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 16:51:53 GMT

If you are using fins to keep up in a lane, I wonder, are you really getting the most out of your workout? If it takes 10% less effort to keep up with the faster people, are you really getting a better workout than if you moved down a lane? I'd really prefer not to swim in the slowest lane. Usually it has very new swimmers who may be much faster than me but have no endurance nor sense of pacing, will stop each 25yards blocking the wall, decide to switch to breaststroke during a free set, won't follow the interval send-offs and otherwise don't understand lane etiquette. They end up drifting back in line, starting out leading the lane but by repeat #5 they are the last swimmer if they bother to tell anybody they are taking extra rest.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Muppet — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:34:48 GMT

Sorry I'm late to the game, but I like this topic! Fins are helpful AND a crutch, and as many have previously posted, it depends on how you are using them. Some great applications for using fins include: help develop kick muscles, achieve better body position, get a feel for race pace speed in practice and enhance SDK ability. I have a few frog-oriented little kids who have spent full practices working on flutter kick with fins to orient their legs with the up and down motion of a straight-leg flutter kick, rather than the "one frog leg at a time in sort of a flutter motion" approach. If you are using fins to keep up in a lane, I wonder, are you really getting the most out of your workout? If it takes 10% less effort to keep up with the faster people, are you really getting a better workout than if you moved down a lane? Sure you may swim a few more yards, but there is a difference between quality and quantity. For those who swim while others use fins (or won't do stroke during IM sets), I feel your pain. We used to swim with a swimmer who wore fins for the whole workout, and it can get annoying (especially when the swimmer can't keep up even with fins and doesn't move down). It is easier said than done to tell yourself (and your lanemates) to swim your own swim, ignore them and use them as motivation. However, if you pushing yourself to work harder helps make the rest of your lane faster, is this all bad?

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Former Member — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 14:01:07 GMT

It's not the equipement in itself, but how it's used. If a person is using the equipement in order to put less effort into something, they are only cheating themselves.... using it in a destructive manner. On the other hand, equipement can also work well in constructive ways, in making things possible, or harder, or correct things, or isolate certain movements. I think equipement in workouts is just fine, as long as one is honest with themselves why they are using it... and if they're not honest with themselves... there's a saying 'ignorance is bliss'...

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Former Member — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 13:15:50 GMT

Glad to hear the fins helped. Just don't use them if you are in a meet. They will be considered illegal.:bouncing::bouncing::bouncing: They help me feel like I did when I was competing. I use them a lot in practice and right now I am not competing so I will use them as much as I feel like I am getting benefit. I notice my legs really feel it too, which is not something I feel when I don't use them. I heart fins! :bliss:

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Former Member — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 12:47:54 GMT

Fins have saved me. I am back in the water after being out for 18 months and I got myself a pair and I'm so glad I did. I remember Fort's comments on how fins have been helpful and that gave me the confidence to use them. My right shoulder is buggy and has given me trouble since I first got back in the pool after a 20+ year hiatus. If it were not for the fins, I'd not be in the pool nearly as often. I love them for sets of 50s and 100s. And believe me I pant hard! They help me feel like I did when I was competing. I use them a lot in practice and right now I am not competing so I will use them as much as I feel like I am getting benefit. I notice my legs really feel it too, which is not something I feel when I don't use them. I heart fins! :bliss:

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

pmccoy — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 09:00:28 GMT

One of the people I swim with on weekends says "fins are the new pull" whenever we start a pull set. I like my fins and they have kept me swimming through shouder pain but I use them sparingly. I think they can definitely be a crutch. They held me back a good bit when I first started. I kept telling myself I'd quit using them once my kick got stronger and I'd be able to keep up. My kick never really got stronger until I put them and my ego aside and missed a few time splits on workouts. Certainly, there are many people that are helped due to injury with fins. I've been there. And not everyone has the goal of developing a stronger finless kick. I look at it this way: If swimming isn't fun without fins, wear the fins.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

KIKat — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 10:38:59 GMT

I just ordered some Speedo Biofuse Training Fins for practice and to make workouts a bit more interesting. I hope I did the right thing!

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Former Member — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:02:53 GMT

Using fins in a race would certainly be cheating, but making comments about "cheating" in a workout seems pretty childish to me. It's Masters and we're all adults. We can make our own choices about how we want to train. You have no idea what the person in the lane next to you might be doing in their life other than swimming. They could be low on sleep due to work, tired from running, dealing with shoulder issues, or just plain bored of swimming endless yards like an age grouper. Or maybe they just want to swim faster to get faster. All are valid reasons for using and there are plenty of others. I think that if you feel the need to complain about someone else's training routine, you're only exposing your own issues. Pardon my assertiveness but I think you've completely misrepresented everything I have said. I haven't complained nor have I judged other people. I never said that fins should never be used. I believe I actually said that swimming is a sport between you and yourself and you set your own standards. I never suggested you're "cheating" other people and quite honestly the term was being used a litle facetiously. Watering down (no pun intended :)) my beliefs and dramatizing them to some form of judgmental, ignorant bickering is ludicrous. All I said was I don't count swimming with fins as part of my distance of the day because it inflates the distance I actually feel I swam. And I'm not attempting to be confrontational or "complain" here but rather clarify what has been said. Perhaps you could now enlighten me on what "issues" I'm "exposing".

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Former Member — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:37:51 GMT

Pardon my assertiveness but I think you've completely misrepresented everything I have said. I haven't complained nor have I judged other people. I never said that fins should never be used. I believe I actually said that swimming is a sport between you and yourself and you set your own standards. I never suggested you're "cheating" other people and quite honestly the term was being used a litle facetiously. Watering down (no pun intended :)) my beliefs and dramatizing them to some form of judgmental, ignorant bickering is ludicrous. All I said was I don't count swimming with fins as part of my distance of the day because it inflates the distance I actually feel I swam. And I'm not attempting to be confrontational or "complain" here but rather clarify what has been said. Perhaps you could now enlighten me on what "issues" I'm "exposing". I wasn't addressing you personally, but if you're the one who made the cheating analogy then I think my original comment sums up my opinion on that. It doesn't bother me if you have a personal code that prevents you from counting fin yardage. That's great if it helps you achieve your swimming goals. Obviously I have a different approach. Fins are a key component of my training and I view them as a tool, not a crutch. Fin yardage hurts. It makes my ankles more flexible, builds endurance, and makes me faster.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

That Guy — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:41:23 GMT

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

rtodd — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:22:22 GMT

sharing a lane with someone who had long fins is no big deal. I'd be a little nervous with a monifin though, especially a stiff one.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Former Member — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:31:01 GMT

No problem! AFAP = as fast as possible Shooters are 25s or 50s done completely underwater SDK. Had a feeling this was a dumb question, but just had to ask!!! Thanks!!! :blush:

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Former Member — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:35:12 GMT

Wow, I do so many different ones. You can check my blog to get an idea. But ones I do frequently are: lactate sets: 8 x 100 @ 2:00, hold best average 10 x 50 @ 1:00, hold best average -- I frequently kick these w/fins or monofin. speed sets: 6-8 x 50 AFAP @ 3-4:00 4-5 x 100 broken AFAP 100s (broken for 15 seconds at 50, 15 seconds at 75, last 25 kick) @ 7-8:00 3-5 x 100 @ 8-9:00 8-10 x 25 AFAP shooters -- 25s, 50s, 75s 10 x 30 seconds strong vertical dolphin kicking with fins + right into fast 25 UW shooter + 25 EZ 9 x 100 @ 2:00, every 3rd one fast -- I'll kick or swim these sets or do some of both. I do recovery swimming between the fast efforts. Sometimes I don't even bother with an interval. The key thing is that you are going at absolutely max effort on these sets with ample rest between each effort. Thanks so much! I assume these are all out efforts. I'll bet it is a pretty tough workout. Can I ask (I hope I don't end up feeling stupid for asking this), but what does "AFAP" stand for? And what are "shooters?" (Underwater SDK kicking?) Thanks again!

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

AnnG — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:22:06 GMT

I don't really care if other people use their fins for part or all of a workout - don't pay that much attention. I will use my fins when appropriate and if I cover the distance - it counts.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Rich Abrahams — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 05:21:21 GMT

Thanks so much! I assume these are all out efforts. I'll bet it is a pretty tough workout. Can I ask (I hope I don't end up feeling stupid for asking this), but what does "AFAP" stand for? And what are "shooters?" (Underwater SDK kicking?) Thanks again! Yes, Leslie does all of the above in one workout. It is indeed very tough.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

debaru — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 02:52:20 GMT

Fins create one hell of a wash when the person is kicking hard. I can certainly understand and agree with the opinion that one should try to stay out of others' way when using fins. I only go first if I know I'll finish with more than 5 seconds lead time. If not then I go last. Sometimes I wait 10 or 15 seconds instead of 5, to ensure plenty of room. I swim with people who kick hard enough without fins to create a hell of a wash. :agree: One guy in particular moves a lot of water when he swims by in another lane, let alone the one I'm in, but I just tell myself it's all good experience for open water swims. :D I also find that the 10 second rule tends to work well whether or not folks are using fins.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

The Fortress — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 02:49:41 GMT

Thanks so much! I assume these are all out efforts. I'll bet it is a pretty tough workout. Can I ask (I hope I don't end up feeling stupid for asking this), but what does "AFAP" stand for? And what are "shooters?" (Underwater SDK kicking?) Thanks again! No problem! AFAP = as fast as possible Shooters are 25s or 50s done completely underwater SDK.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Former Member — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:25:19 GMT

What exactly is the problem swimming behind someone with fins? On any given day in my usual lane we all occasionally use fins and no one has complained. Fins create one hell of a wash when the person is kicking hard. I can certainly understand and agree with the opinion that one should try to stay out of others' way when using fins. I only go first if I know I'll finish with more than 5 seconds lead time. If not then I go last. Sometimes I wait 10 or 15 seconds instead of 5, to ensure plenty of room.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

philoswimmer — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:43:47 GMT

What bothers me is when people use fins to make a set, or move up a lane that they otherwise couldn't keep up in. It is a real drag to swim behind someone wearing fins. If you are the only person in your lane wearing fins during a swimming set, please take them off. I'm not fully understanding this. For example, there was one day the coach put me into a faster lane because of space issues. Now, I could have held up the lane, but I figured it would be better to put my fins on and keep up. I don't see where I got in anyone's way -- in fact, it was the exact opposite. To the topic at hand, though, perhaps it's people wearing fins when others are not that contributes to the feeling that fins are "cheating." I felt a little bit like that myself, but not because I wasn't getting a good workout. The only reason you wouldn't get a workout with fins is if you lowered your effort level (in other words, if you swam at the same speed you would ordinarily without the fins). In another thread, I asked about intermediate length fins (longer than zoomers, shorter than regular long fins). I don't know if it's my imagination, but they feel very fast to me, perhaps because I can do a relatively fast tempo with a fair amount of power. So, I have to make sure that I am putting out effort and not just lolly-gagging along.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Former Member — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:21:05 GMT

I had to look at the thread subject line twice. I though it sad, "Swim Fins Helpful ON a Crutch." Man, crutches are hard enough as it is, without trying to use them with swim fins. And fins on the crutch itself? That would be fun to watch, but probably not fun to try... Seriously, though ... There are people who regularly swim at the same lap time I do. They'll wear fins and paddles for the whole workout, day in and day out. Some swim a mile or 2000 yards straight. Every day. I'm sure they get a fine workout, but I wonder how effective they would be if their boat capsized a mile off shore. But maybe that's what it takes to get them in the pool, and I'll never begrudge anyone whatever assistance they need to keep at it -- whatever their workout is. And then last year I got injured. Ruptured my left quatriceps tendon. Had to get it surgically reattached. Took forever to rehab the thing. Still working at it. When I was first allowed in the pool, two months after surgery, I swam everything with a pull buoy. The knee hurt too much to kick. (And I don't even kick hard. It's just enough to keep my ass up.) Then I started slipping in 50 yards without the pull buoy every 300 yards. Then 100s. Eventually 50% of the workout without the pull buoy. And finally full workouts without the pull buoy. But that's not where the victory ended. I started doing a little with fins. Then more and more. Now, once or twice a week I do the majority of my workout all kicking. On those days I do 2500 with the fins. Half of each length is SDK, half flutter. I do these for a couple of half mile intervals at about 50-55 seconds per 50 yards. And then some more at a more relaxed pace to finish off the remainder. I've been doing these for the past few months now, and over that time I have greatly increased the strength in both legs, and especially the injured one. And I've grown the circumference of my upper thighs from 56 CMs (measured at the end of my rehab stint) to 64 CMs in about 5 months. I still have a crappy kick without the fins. Maybe some day I'll care enough about that to work without the fins. But this is what keeps me improving now, and nobody's opinion is going to make me feel any less satisfied with the progress I'm seeing. And I consider that my yards all "count" (as if anyone else is counting anyway!)

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Former Member — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 09:40:32 GMT

If you are the only person in your lane wearing fins during a swimming set, please take them off. Perhaps I should have added, or go last. Swimming behind someone who is wearing fins sucks.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

Former Member — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 08:59:20 GMT

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

philoswimmer — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 05:27:01 GMT

Perhaps I should have added, or go last. Swimming behind someone who is wearing fins sucks. Why? Are you getting fins in your face? If so, you need to back off.

RE: Swim Fins Helpfull or a Crutch?

debaru — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 05:22:00 GMT

I think fins can be a really good tool. On kicking sets they really tire me out, are fun, and reduce the amount of time it takes to finish the set. When swimming they can help with body position, and dealing with race speed for turns. What bothers me is when people use fins to make a set, or move up a lane that they otherwise couldn't keep up in. It is a real drag to swim behind someone wearing fins. If you are the only person in your lane wearing fins during a swimming set, please take them off. What exactly is the problem swimming behind someone with fins? On any given day in my usual lane we all occasionally use fins and no one has complained.