Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

Former Member — Fri, 27 Dec 2002 07:26:26 GMT

This brings back painful memories. I am a member of the same team as Jim Thornton and was part of this " lets get those Master swimmers out of here" posse! Fortunately we were able to get some sense in these people that were trying to barre us from having healthy fun. The numbers that you are relaying are absurd!! Why do you have to be punished if the "Y" has incapable people to create an manage a proper budget. The problem in our Y is not that they do not have the money, but merely a sickening thought of a chairman that wants to push the capacity past its limits. But look at what it did to the facility, no hot shower to be found!! Anyway, I think your whole team should go to a board meeting and tell them what you think!!:mad:

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

CJR — Fri, 27 Dec 2002 03:50:48 GMT

At the M.E. Lyons YMCA in Cincinnati, we are very fortunate. We have two options. A Y member pays $150 for the year. A non-Y member pays $225. This price includes the USMS fee of $25. These cost cover the 90 minutes workouts that we offer 6 days a week. The workouts take place in the DOME Natatorium on Monday & Friday @ 6:00a.m. Tuesday, Wednesday, & Thursday evenings @ 8 pm. and Saturday workouts @ 6:30a.m. We have a unique set up. The outdoor pool is "Domed" for the winter. So we have a 6-lane 50-meter pool or use a bulkhead to have 2 25-yard pools. This is one of the reasons that our age group team (Anderson Barracudas) is dominant at Y Nationals. We have the space and time to get quantity & quality workouts in. Plus the general membership benefits because you now have more lap and open swims available. Here's what you can and can't expect from our coaches. The coaches write and supervise the practice. That means they will be on the deck coaching. Your coach may or may not give unsolicited advice on your stroke. If you would welcome this, you let the coach know. Also, if you have goals in mind, or want to work on specifics like starts and turns, let your coach know. Schedule permitting, he or she can incorporate a set within a practice to work on these things. Just keep in mind there is are many swimmers in the pool and you should not expect the coach to interrupt a practice to spend time with one person. That can be done at the end of practice. This is Masters, you know: grownups. You have total autonomy over what you will and won't do. You'll be encouraged, but no one is going to stand over you and make you do anything. It's up to you -- like your parents used to tell you, "You only get out of it what you put into it." By the same token, if your body tells you to back off, back off. The coaches aren't going to stop you from overdoing it, so be smart. The key is to make opportunities to make revenue that benefit the entire membership. Thanks, C.J. Rushman Anderson Barracuda Masters M.E. Lyons YMCA Cincinnati, OH www.ablyswim.org :)

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

Former Member — Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:24:35 GMT

Anyway, there is a good article in the Los Angeles times on a Y age group team that was disband because of conflict with the parents and conflict of schedules between the age group team in East Los Angeles(an inner city area) and the learn to swim and recreation program. Its seems that across the country there are problems with Y's trying to balance the needs of masters and age group teams with learn to swim and water aerobics and recreation programs. Anyway, the team is going to be restarted again later.

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

Former Member — Tue, 24 Dec 2002 17:51:18 GMT

Y's seem to have a philosophy similar to health clubs. They seem to give a lot of time to water aerobics. Its a popular thing these days and a lot of women, like Jim saids don't swim but they like to do it. Even during the open swim period at the health club I'm at they like to do water aerobic actvities. I think that a small group like yours would be better off with a lap swimming format/open swim. Now at the rec pool I go to, the water aerobics people don't hog the pool and they have certain classes that are usually not at the same time as the lap swimming time. Sometimes for us to get more time, we need to go to more than one pool in the area if its available.

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

Former Member — Tue, 24 Dec 2002 17:32:57 GMT

I am a coach at a Y, for both masters and non-USS age group in an inner city YMCA. We are going through a similiar situation. I'm a little distrubed by what I am reading. When I became the masters coach this fall the fees were $9 a month for facility members and $35 for program members. We were paying their USMS reg. fee, they had a coach who just sat on the pool deck and did nothing, and a board member on the team. The coach was driven to bench sitting, I watched it happen. The coached before were driven away. We were losing a major amount of money. The age groups kids pay $35 for fac. mem. and $45 for prog. mem. They pay their $40 reg. themselves. We were and still are barely breaking even...our goal. Since I have gotten the team I am trying to turn it around. I am raising their fees to that of the age groupers and they will pay their own 2003 fees. They get two lanes (for about 3 to 4 swimmers). They have had web space on our web site and I have recently made them their own home page. The YMCA's are not out to get money in general. We have to break even and if we make some money...it is used to help the program grow. The YMCA has a Share Program to help make it possibel for anyone who wants to join to do so. We believe firmly in the last past of our mission..."to provide programs to promote the healthly spirit, mind, and body FOR ALL!" If your coach sits there... talk to them...if they dont change, demand a change in coaches. If someone needs help with the fees invite them to check out the Share Program. If you do your own workouts that's fine too, but unless you have a USMS on deck supervising each workout I believe that puts a void in your USMS insurance if something would happen. I'm not saying you are wrong to be upset...if there isnt a coach there supervising you shouldnt pay that kind of fee, but you should try to get a coach, a real one. ANd trust me the fee can be well worth it.

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

Former Member — Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:49:19 GMT

Maybe one (or more) of you should consider becoming lifeguard(s). I don't know what the Y requires. The red cross certification program isn't too hard. Swim 500 yds, retrieve the brick, learn the rescues, cpr & first aid. Of course each of those involves a bit more ... but the course is usually about 8 long sessions and $200-$400 depending where you take it. If the Y were to hire you ... then lifeguard costs would also be negotiable. Good Luck!

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

Former Member — Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:01:03 GMT

Thanks so far for all the help. Our executive director is coming to practice on Friday to "address" us. So, we'll see what happens. At least now, I'm armed with some information about what other Masters swimmers have to pay. It's not so much the cash. I can afford it. It's just that we generally get treated like second-rate members of the Y already (the pool is kept at the temperature recommended by the arthritis foundation, the lane lines are left loose and dangerous so they can turn the pool over quickly for water aerobics, we had to live without flags at one end of the pool for 6 months, etc). Emmett, you hit the nail on the head. Their budget just isn't balancing, and they're looking for additional sources of income. However, for $55/month, someone can use the gym every day, plus take unlimited aerobics, yoga, spinning, etc classes to their heart's content. I swim, and maybe use a treadmill a dozen times a year. That's it. They're not losing money on me. If they're going to add a surcharge for us, they need to do it accross the board. They do have to pay our "coach" a premium for showing up at 5am, but they're not giving up any lap swim time. Originally, we were totally member-run. One of our members had a key. We'd unlock the doors in the morning (5am), and would start our workouts at 5:30. Unfortunately, we were told that we had to have a lifeguard on deck at all times, due to insurance, I believe. That's when all the trouble began.

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

jim thornton — Tue, 24 Dec 2002 12:36:58 GMT

I raised a very similar question about our Y's treatment of masters swimming. It was posted on the old forum, however, before the conversion to this new, snazzy format. I am wondering if the sysop could look up that old thread and post the url here for you to read. I remember there were a lot of thoughtful replies, the gist of which is that the Y is supposed to be non profit, but like most things in our nation, money talks. Try to figure out how you guys can offer the Y powers that be a fair deal--fair to them, and fair to you. I agree with earlier posters here, what you have now sounds like a very bad deal for you guys. Emmett's suggestion of arriving en masse and doing a kind of unofficially organized "lap swimming" (really a workout) is what our team ended up doing both here in Western Pa and also in St. Paul MN when I swam on a team there. I definitely feel your pain. I think Masters swimming is by far the greatest competitive sporting opportunity for adults in US today, but trying to get pool time can be frustrating. Our Y would much rather pack dozens of portly matrons into the overheated pool to joggercise in place than let our team have 3 measley hours a week and half the pool! One thing you might try is to find out is if any of your teammates are on the board of your Y, or are friends with someone on the board. I think sometimes the bureaucrats in charge of day to day operations feel a pinch to generate more revenue, but they must answer to the board (which, by the way, is probably generating the pinch in the first place.) I personally have been trying for years to talk someone on the local board into joining our team. It couldn't hurt to get a swimming Godfather. I'll let you know if this strategy works if I ever recruit someone...

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

Former Member — Tue, 24 Dec 2002 11:37:28 GMT

"the Y is supposed to be non profit" They are also supposed to be non-loss. Trust me, the Y is NOT coming close to making a profit on members who pay just $55 a month but make regular use of the facility. Charging additional fees for groups that make regular and exclusive use of some part of the facility (especially if such use requires additional staffing) is a fair and equitable way to make ends meet.

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

Former Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2002 16:10:52 GMT

Sounds like a lot of fees. But I pay over 400 a year for a health club and 2 dollars a week or more at a rec pool. The health club has one lane you can put in. I usually swim open lane and sometimes its crowded, when someone has the one lane in and you have to share a 15 yard pool with other people. This week I swam alone. But I don't mine the short length since the pool at the health club is indoors. Health club and some Y pools are not that big. The temperature seems high and here in Arizona because of the 100 degree heat, pools can reach 87 and 88 degrees. The health club pool seems to be 83 degrees. I tried to swim at least once a week in the rec pool which is 25 yards. If I join the local masters club here I would have to pay another 40 dollars a month and I would not use their pool even though its a unversity pool because its localed on the other side of town and doesn't fit with my work schedule.

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

Former Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2002 13:11:04 GMT

Lou, Just as a point of reference, aside from the annual family membership fee of $450.00, our YMCA charges a masters swim program fee of $160.00 for each seasonal session (Winter, Spring, Summer and Fall). We get in three 1 1/2 hour workouts per week. No complaints really. It's a brand new six lane facility. And the nearest pool is over an hour away. You should get a discount though for overcrowded lane conditions. Maybe they're generating revunue for three more lanes? Good luck.

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

Former Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2002 11:02:23 GMT

Wow, THOSE ARE SOME VERY STIFF CHARGES! WAY OUT OF LINE... Try taking your case to the National YMCA office if this cannot be solved in the local office. GOOD LUCK... Oh, by the way, tell your YMCA you DON'T want to BUT THE YMCA....YOU JUST WANT TO SWIM THERE! Kindest regards, Tom Ellison

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

Former Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:12:56 GMT

Do you get exclusive use of the pool at times that other members cannot use it or that could be used for another revenue generating program? If so, that could be at least part of the justification for an additional fee. If not, then you can simply say, "thanx but no thanx, we'll just all show up at the same time and swim as individuals - the fact that we'll all be doing the same workout we downloaded from the internet last night is no concern to you". That'll save them the cost of putting your "coach" on deck. If you have a beef about the coach you could go and demand they make a change. Of course, such a demand likely only speaks as loudly as the revenue stream from your program dictates. Does the Y provide such program perks as bulletinboard space, information to phone inquiries, space on their web site etc for your program? If so then these are also possible justificatiion for additional fees. Do a bit of research and figure out what it would cost to muster your members, rent another facility and hire a coach to run a program for you. This will give you a good idea of what a reasonable fee for Masters program membership might be in your area. It'll also give you a great head start if your group actually decides that the Y is not the place you want to stay.

RE: Trying to save my Masters Team!! Need Help!!

Dennis Tesch — Mon, 23 Dec 2002 05:02:16 GMT

Hi Lou, For a program with only 3 lanes and a coach that is just sitting on deck..... I think your being ripped off. If you swim 3 times a week (48 weeks a year) your cost would be $7.36 a workout. If you swim twice a week, your cost is $11.04. You could almost rent a lane to yourself and not deal with anyone in your lane. I don't know a great deal about your program, but you should look at the how much of the money goes to coaches, to pool rental, etc. Determine what are the cost and then see if they give your the benefits your looking for in a masters program. Good Luck.. Dennis :(