What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 16:35:05 GMT

I've heard people like Spitz, Gaines, Betsy Mitchell, Rich Saeger, Steve Lundquist and others of the late 70's/80's generation of Olympic medalists talk about such things and never heard them say that kind of thing. Yeah, I read over what I've written and I'm embarrassed. It was wrong of me to speculate like that - particularly with real people's names, when I don't know any of those people, and - to my knowledge- they might speak of any contender with total respect. I apologize. I was kinda basing my thoughts on how stellar college professors will dis to grad students about respectable tenured profs in good standing with solid, but non-stellar, outputs.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 08:28:32 GMT

Yeah, I read over what I've written and I'm embarrassed. It was wrong of me to speculate like that - particularly with real people's names, when I don't know any of those people, and - to my knowledge- they might speak of any contender with total respect. I apologize. I appreciate your perspective. I think it is kind of you to do so but I don't need an apology and I suspect they'd just smile and tell you not to worry about it. Many people who achieve some kind of high rank in human society are, frankly, d*cks about it. :) And it's easy to speculate what such people think of lesser mortals. But in my experience swimmers are not often like that & most athletes do well to keep it real, as they say. I was kinda basing my thoughts on how stellar college professors will dis to grad students about respectable tenured profs in good standing with solid, but non-stellar, outputs. :laugh2: That is something I know a little about and I certainly here you. My theory as to why that happens is that the only way to get rid of an assistant professor you can't stand is to promote them to associate & hope another school will recruit them. So by the time you end up with a full professor or even one in a named chair you can find some really interesting people.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:51:16 GMT

... I would think of anyone who day, made the olympic trials, or an NCAA champ, even in lower division, to be really great. Like a world beyond anything I can imagine. That's not a bad benchmark I think especially making a time cut like the Olympic trials. Winning a particular event at NCAA is always, like any other race, subject to so many factors. So a time mark seems to me to have a certain reliability a medal may have but might not. But suppose if you had Michael Phelps, Ryan Lotche, Dana Torres, and Mark Spitz were sitting around and talking? I'd guess they might view someone who won one olympic silver and one bronze as an "also ran." Or maybe even, "Sure that swimmer had a world record, like 10 years ago, but it was only one. It lasted two months. And what was it in? *** stroke? meh." I've heard people like Spitz, Gaines, Betsy Mitchell, Rich Saeger, Steve Lundquist and others of the late 70's/80's generation of Olympic medalists talk about such things and never heard them say that kind of thing. They know how incredibly ephemeral a moment it is on the medal stand and how short record times often last. The fact anyone got near one is an accomplishment they recognized. Don't know about those young kids these days, though. :laugh2:

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 14:38:32 GMT

I have another "what is great, anyhow?" post. I would think of anyone who day, made the olympic trials, or an NCAA champ, even in lower division, to be really great. Like a world beyond anything I can imagine. But suppose if you had Michael Phelps, Ryan Lotche, Dana Torres, and Mark Spitz were sitting around and talking? I'd guess they might view someone who won one olympic silver and one bronze as an "also ran." Or maybe even, "Sure that swimmer had a world record, like 10 years ago, but it was only one. It lasted two months. And what was it in? *** stroke? meh."

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

sickfish — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 10:42:33 GMT

almost the same muscle mass and proportions Regardless of what they look like from afar, I assure you that they are in much, much better shape than you or I.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 05:34:35 GMT

My checkoffs in the physical advantages column are pretty few - I'm 6'1" but with a 6'7" wingspan, and I have ridiculously flexible ankles. But I have really long legs and size 10 feet which is tiny for someone over 6'... I'm doomed here. :laugh2: I'm only 5'1", my legs are long compared to my torso, my shoulders aren't exceptionally wide, and my ankles are not flexible at all. My arms are long, and my hands and feet are proportionally large for my size, but that's mostly b/c I have long fingers and toes. Core is strong from gymnastics, and I'm an ectomorph with supposedly more fast-twitch muscles than slow.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:18:53 GMT

Well, I'm not entirely sure if the ratio itself is important on its own, but you want to be tall, and it also helps to have short legs because you can maintain a higher frequency of kick with a lower amplitude that stays within your slipstream easier. So that ends up with preferably a long torso to make up the height difference. Famously, Michael Phelps, who is 6'4", has the torso of an average 6'8" person and legs of an average 5'10" person. My checkoffs in the physical advantages column are pretty few - I'm 6'1" but with a 6'7" wingspan, and I have ridiculously flexible ankles. But I have really long legs and size 10 feet which is tiny for someone over 6'... BTW, cinc, I would say that Cody Miller probably does have some good lung capacity. You kind of have to to be effective at breaststroke pullouts with the dolphin kick these days. Also from pictures he does seem to have long arms, at least relative to his height.[/QUOTE There are articles about why Michael long toso and short legs helped him. He is suppose to have less drag compared to your average swimmer.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 11:50:45 GMT

Cody Miller is a breaststroke. We have different dimensions than other simmers. We do? :) That was my best stroke & events and may be again. I'm 6'4" and more Phelps-like than Miller-like. Doesn't seem to have been an obstacle. All kidding aside, I find the OP's question always fascinating. We have Phelps & Miller, both with different forms but both are unquestionably great swimmers. All those physical attributes combine with great coaching, talent, technique, drive, circumstance, and all kinds of factors that make a great swimmer. Sometimes they seem to be easy to spot early, others not as much. I find this makes swimming an ever-interesting sport because so many kinds of people bring so many different things and so much to it.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Jeff Enge — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:36:28 GMT

I'm curious, why is a long torso comparable to legs preferable? Well, I'm not entirely sure if the ratio itself is important on its own, but you want to be tall, and it also helps to have short legs because you can maintain a higher frequency of kick with a lower amplitude that stays within your slipstream easier. So that ends up with preferably a long torso to make up the height difference. Famously, Michael Phelps, who is 6'4", has the torso of an average 6'8" person and legs of an average 5'10" person. My checkoffs in the physical advantages column are pretty few - I'm 6'1" but with a 6'7" wingspan, and I have ridiculously flexible ankles. But I have really long legs and size 10 feet which is tiny for someone over 6'... BTW, cinc, I would say that Cody Miller probably does have some good lung capacity. You kind of have to to be effective at breaststroke pullouts with the dolphin kick these days. Also from pictures he does seem to have long arms, at least relative to his height.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Karl_S — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 07:38:19 GMT

I'm curious, why is a long torso comparable to legs preferable? Look at a fish, long thick body, short tail with fins.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:20:04 GMT

I'm curious, why is a long torso comparable to legs preferable?

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 05:46:56 GMT

I like this group of physical attributes. Let’s compare two Olympians, first the most awarded, Michael Phelps: Tall - Yes long arms - Famously yes long torso compared to legs - Yes wide shoulders - Yes ectomorph-to-mesomorph build - Yes big hands and feet - Yes big lung capacity - Yes flexible ankles, knees, and shoulders - Yes strong core - Yes high lactate threshold - Presumably high proportion of fast-twitch muscle - Yes And now Cody Miller: Tall - No long arms - No long torso compared to legs- No wide shoulders - Yes ectomorph-to-mesomorph build - Yes big hands and feet - No big lung capacity - No flexible ankles, knees, and shoulders - Yes strong core - Yes high lactate threshold - Presumably high proportion of fast-twitch muscle - Yes Cody Miller is a breaststroke. We have different dimensions than other simmers.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 05:44:42 GMT

I like this group of physical attributes. Let’s compare two Olympians, first the most awarded, Michael Phelps: Tall - Yes long arms - Famously yes long torso compared to legs - Yes wide shoulders - Yes ectomorph-to-mesomorph build - Yes big hands and feet - Yes big lung capacity - Yes flexible ankles, knees, and shoulders - Yes strong core - Yes high lactate threshold - Presumably high proportion of fast-twitch muscle - Yes And now Cody Miller: Tall - No long arms - No long torso compared to legs- No wide shoulders - Yes ectomorph-to-mesomorph build - Yes big hands and feet - No big lung capacity - No flexible ankles, knees, and shoulders - Yes strong core - Yes high lactate threshold - Presumably high proportion of fast-twitch muscle - Yes Corey Miller is a breaststroker and Breaststroker can be shorter. As for legs, My legs are so short that I have to go to petit. I'm also average height though and Breaststroke my best stroke.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Swimspire — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 11:01:03 GMT

Lots of good answers here but we shouldn't forget the importance of a great coach! Whether that coach was someone who worked with the swimmer from a younger age or later in life, the impact of a great coach can be felt lifelong. Also important is having a strong support group (family, spouse, friends) to allow that swimmer to make the sacrifices it takes to be truly great.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 10:27:16 GMT

And yet you are faster than a lot of others who might ask the same question of you. Oh, so true. "There are always greater and lessor humans." And also what are you calling great? I live in Pennsylvania. As far as I'm concerned, someone who swims in a lake at least once in every month of the year is a truly great swimmer. Faster, for example, doesn't make that any better.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 10:04:08 GMT

Its not about talent and training only its also about the will to improve and the right mindset. I guess the great one has a bigger will to win compare to an average. The average one is not improving (much). He stay always in his comfort-zone.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

larrydk — Sun, 09 Sep 2018 08:14:21 GMT

I was always told the 4 "T's" will determine you ultimate levels of achievement; Talent - Technique - Training - Tools ...these are listed in order of importance and you only have the ability to work on the last 3. Unfortunately what our parents told us when we were kids was not true (ie. you can be or do anything you want if you try hard enough). However, as a master, I personally find satisfaction in my own improvements.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Sun, 09 Sep 2018 08:12:25 GMT

I mean, there's a laundry list of things. A great swimmer doesn't have to have all of these but each certainly helps.... I like this group of physical attributes. Let’s compare two Olympians, first the most awarded, Michael Phelps: Tall - Yes long arms - Famously yes long torso compared to legs - Yes wide shoulders - Yes ectomorph-to-mesomorph build - Yes big hands and feet - Yes big lung capacity - Yes flexible ankles, knees, and shoulders - Yes strong core - Yes high lactate threshold - Presumably high proportion of fast-twitch muscle - Yes And now Cody Miller: Tall - No long arms - No long torso compared to legs- No wide shoulders - Yes ectomorph-to-mesomorph build - Yes big hands and feet - No big lung capacity - No flexible ankles, knees, and shoulders - Yes strong core - Yes high lactate threshold - Presumably high proportion of fast-twitch muscle - Yes

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

orca1946 — Thu, 06 Sep 2018 06:22:20 GMT

How many Olympic swimmers do you see in local meets? Yes, there are some but, we not so fast swimmers stay in the pool for decades at our pace and race in each event we enter.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

__steve__ — Thu, 06 Sep 2018 06:03:39 GMT

I've thought about this many times to find, the ONLY thing that sets apart a great swimmer from the average is the their resulting times.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 09:55:14 GMT

I'm with Orca on this topic. Everyone who makes the attempt is a great swimmer in my book. I work out solo most the time, coach a local Community Center age group swim club, and teach lessons to folks of all ages. It's fun to watch a swimmer learn something new, or overcome what they felt was out of reach. This! Whether a swimmer has a five-rings tattoo & has been swimming since about birth or someone who is 90 and just came for their first swim lesson --and everyone in between-- it's all about the individual and their own relation to the water. These days I find it incredibly beautiful to watch and Olympic swimmer set a world record, to see them on the medal stand, and to also know that record may fall the next day. It's all so ephemeral. And yet no matter a persons level relative to anyone else it can be a huge amount of fun and satisfaction.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Redbird Alum — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 07:27:36 GMT

And yet you are faster than a lot of others who might ask the same question of you. I'm with Orca on this topic. Everyone who makes the attempt is a great swimmer in my book. I work out solo most the time, coach a local Community Center age group swim club, and teach lessons to folks of all ages. It's fun to watch a swimmer learn something new, or overcome what they felt was out of reach.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Former Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 13:54:17 GMT

And yet you are faster than a lot of others who might ask the same question of you. This is true. When I was at my peak as a teenager I probably could go undet 29 seconds a couple of times in 50 yard freestyle not meters. I mainly swim around 29 to 31 seconds. I'm not a freestyler. Today, I would be lucky to hit 41 seconds. Not all of us are great at swimming. Some of us do it for exercise as well. Not everyone is going to do a Laurie Val time of 1:04 that would get you a bronze medal at the 1956 Olympics for women in 100 meter freestyle.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

orca1946 — Wed, 29 Aug 2018 10:09:20 GMT

And yet you are faster than a lot of others who might ask the same question of you.

RE: What sets apart a average swimmer from a truly great one?

Allen Stark — Wed, 29 Aug 2018 01:56:37 GMT

So many possibilities. Percentage of fast twitch fibers, specificity of training, better technique, X factor?