Time differentials between strokes

RE: Time differentials between strokes

knelson — Tue, 14 May 2019 12:30:43 GMT

Thread resurrection! I ran these numbers again with my SCY times from this past season as I did all the 50s tapered in one form or another. Let's see where I sit now... 50 Fr 21.25 (ratio 1.00 duh) 50 Bk 24.35 (ratio 1.15) 50 Fl 23.32 (ratio 1.10) 50 Br 26.77 (ratio 1.26) Looks like I figured out my 50 free a bit more, but I still skew a little more toward strokes than freestyle. You look like an IMer to me!

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Jeff Enge — Tue, 14 May 2019 11:20:01 GMT

Heh. Mine look crazy. I must not be a freestyler comparatively. Which I guess I kinda already knew. Free 1.00 Back 1.08 Fly 1.04 *** 1.23 Thread resurrection! I ran these numbers again with my SCY times from this past season as I did all the 50s tapered in one form or another. Let's see where I sit now... 50 Fr 21.25 (ratio 1.00 duh) 50 Bk 24.35 (ratio 1.15) 50 Fl 23.32 (ratio 1.10) 50 Br 26.77 (ratio 1.26) Looks like I figured out my 50 free a bit more, but I still skew a little more toward strokes than freestyle.

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Former Member — Sun, 20 May 2018 16:52:34 GMT

For those who swim more than one stroke, do the differences in these times seem about average? 50 yards from a push: Freestyle - :33/34 Backstroke - :37 Breaststroke - :46/47 Butterfly - :35 Any feedback is appreciated! Update after 5 months: Freestyle - :32 Backstroke - :33 Breaststroke - :44 (and I couldn’t do this time consistently) Butterfly - :33 i rarely ever sprint, or even pay attention to my swim times (pace clock in pool is terrible, the Pool Swim function on Apple Watch 3 is good for a lot of things but not for timing, unless there’s a way to prevent the watch face from going dark), so I’m pretty happy with the drops in time which must be attributable to improvements in technique except for breaststroke.

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Former Member — Fri, 18 May 2018 10:07:54 GMT

I think your times are real good. When I swam in my mid-40's before I came back about 2 years ago I swam a fly in only 40 seconds. :blush:

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Former Member — Fri, 18 May 2018 08:33:55 GMT

Thank you for your insight :) i have received a lot of valuable feedback from so many sources here on USMS via video analysis and have incorporated it into each of my strokes. The video analysis has been incredibly useful and revealing (watching how your body jiggles underwater has been an eye opener). Although I’m not entirely sure that the improvements in technique have resulted in significant speed improvements (I think a lot of it is the drag factor from my body shape), I’ll time myself this weekend on the strokes and will report back. I think your times are real good. When I swam in my mid-40's before I came back about 2 years ago I swam a fly in only 40 seconds.

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Former Member — Thu, 17 May 2018 07:23:59 GMT

Your Freestyle - :33/34 & Butterfly - :35 seem to be your best strokes, Backstroke - :37 but it should be closer to your fly time and you really need to improve your Breaststroke - :46/47 BR, it should be closer to your free time like maybe a 6, 7, or 8 sec time difference between your free and BR. Thank you for your insight :) i have received a lot of valuable feedback from so many sources here on USMS via video analysis and have incorporated it into each of my strokes. The video analysis has been incredibly useful and revealing (watching how your body jiggles underwater has been an eye opener). Although I’m not entirely sure that the improvements in technique have resulted in significant speed improvements (I think a lot of it is the drag factor from my body shape), I’ll time myself this weekend on the strokes and will report back.

RE: Time differentials between strokes

ande — Thu, 17 May 2018 02:00:10 GMT

For those who swim more than one stroke, do the differences in these times seem about average? 50 yards from a push: Freestyle - :33/34 Backstroke - :37 Breaststroke - :46/47 Butterfly - :35 Any feedback is appreciated! Your Freestyle - :33/34 & Butterfly - :35 seem to be your best strokes, Backstroke - :37 but it should be closer to your fly time and you really need to improve your Breaststroke - :46/47 BR, it should be closer to your free time like maybe a 6, 7, or 8 sec time difference between your free and BR.

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Allen Stark — Mon, 14 May 2018 09:27:06 GMT

Fantastic.

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Jeff Enge — Mon, 14 May 2018 09:16:11 GMT

Have you tried the early dolphin kick in your pullout? Are you faster with the dolphin during the pulldown? I know this is resurrecting an old thread, but Allen, this tip/catalyst for change was the single biggest thing that affected my National meet. I KILLED my breaststroke underwaters.

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Former Member — Sat, 23 Dec 2017 10:39:44 GMT

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Elaine Krugman — Sat, 23 Dec 2017 01:53:02 GMT

I haven't swum 50s in all 4 strokes in the 65-69 age group. But I think the ratios would be the same as 60-64: 50 yd Fly 28.52 50 BK 33.62 50 BR 30.35 50 Free 27.11. My 50 BK was that fast only because I swam the underwater parts as breaststroke on my back(much faster than my dolphin kick, much much faster than my surface backstroke. Hey, King Frog, I'm curious. Have you ever tried swimming backstroke doing ALL breaststroke kicks along with double armed pull? I do that at the end of my cool downs just to stretch out my upper body (and, it's fun!). So far, I've figured out that doing the kick before the pull works best for me (or, is more fun, at least!). It would be opposite of breaststroke where the pull comes first, but it seems to work better than doing both at the same time or pulling first. I've never timed any of it, but it sure is fun to mess around with at the end of a workout. CAUTION: Just make sure you use a nose clip, if you are too tired to pay very close attention to your breathing! My face tends to get a bit submerged when I do this made-up stroke, and I nearly waterboarded myself one time when I was really tired and not being careful! :drowning: :whiteflag:

RE: Time differentials between strokes

__steve__ — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 11:45:39 GMT

I must not be a freestyler comparatively. Which I guess I kinda already knew. Free 1.00 Back 1.08 Fly 1.04 *** 1.23 OK, now I am really embarrassed with my times :-(Those are super scm swims. The freestyle just seems like that because the strokes were so comparatively fast!

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Allen Stark — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 10:53:07 GMT

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 09:48:07 GMT

Although I didn't swim as a kid, I'm the same way. My strokes by speed are: free, ***/back (about the same), then fly. Same here, although I swam in high school, and then took 31 years off. My stroke speed is the same as yours. :agree:

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Former Member — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 06:23:07 GMT

Well, I'm a terrible backstoker and my backstroke time wise has been worst than breaststroke since I was a kid. Its true you probably need to work on breaststroke since I did a 42 breaststroke when I was 45 years old after not swimming for over 30 years. At age 59 years old for not swimming much the past 8 years I posted a 51 second breaststroke. I’m going to get a camera to film myself underwater and over water... hopefully the areas for improvement will be apparent and an easy fix.

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Former Member — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 06:08:45 GMT

Wow those are great times, I guess my swimming goal would be not to have such a large variance/deficiency between any of the strokes... so breaststroke needs a lot of work. I’m probably too drag-sensitive for big improvements though, and swimming it feels like an accordion that’s being scrunched and stretched out over and over. i think I could see bigger improvements in back and fly, with some marginal improvement in free, but reducing the huge difference in the *** time is going to be a life long goal probably. Well, I'm a terrible backstoker and my backstroke time wise has been worst than breaststroke since I was a kid. Its true you probably need to work on breaststroke since I did a 42 breaststroke when I was 45 years old after not swimming for over 30 years. At age 59 years old for not swimming much the past 8 years I posted a 51 second breaststroke.

RE: Time differentials between strokes

aztimm — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 04:30:30 GMT

Well, I'm a terrible backstoker and my backstroke time wise has been worst than breaststroke since I was a kid. Although I didn't swim as a kid, I'm the same way. My strokes by speed are: free, ***/back (about the same), then fly. I've swum the 100 IM at meets a few times, both yards and meters. After the first 50 I'm usually toward the back of the pack, then by the end of *** I'm back in the thick of things.

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Jeff Enge — Thu, 21 Dec 2017 08:41:30 GMT

Have you tried the early dolphin kick in your pullout? Are you faster with the dolphin during the pulldown? At the risk of derailing the OP, I did dolphin during the pulldown all through college but I have been playing with timing a bit recently actually... I just haven't put a clock on it or anything yet. Will do more investigation and report back!

RE: Time differentials between strokes

cmolnar65 — Thu, 21 Dec 2017 07:57:13 GMT

Fly - 26.5 Back - 27.5 *** - 31.2 Free - 25.3 OK, now I am really embarrassed with my times :-(

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Former Member — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 16:37:23 GMT

Yeah, your breaststroke is pretty far behind your other three strokes. I'd say 5-7 seconds difference between free and *** is probably a good rule of thumb. Backstroke is a bit off compared to your fly, in an ideal world those are pretty much even from a push. Obviously from a dive that would change things some. But keeping the ratios "in line" really only matters if you care to be a generalist or IMer. FWIW, I'm an IMer, pretty even between strokes. Last meet (which was my first meet back from 6-year swimming break so take it with a grain of salt), I swam all of the 50s short course meters, my times were: Fly - 26.5 Back - 27.5 *** - 31.2 Free - 25.3 Wow those are great times, I guess my swimming goal would be not to have such a large variance/deficiency between any of the strokes... so breaststroke needs a lot of work. I’m probably too drag-sensitive for big improvements though, and swimming it feels like an accordion that’s being scrunched and stretched out over and over. i think I could see bigger improvements in back and fly, with some marginal improvement in free, but reducing the huge difference in the *** time is going to be a life long goal probably.

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Former Member — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:39:08 GMT

i would say your a fly/backstroker ... and like me they will be passing you in breaststroke in the IM Those are my two favorite strokes... the other two are just so confounding.

RE: Time differentials between strokes

__steve__ — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:59:49 GMT

You can click here to compare collective masters swimmers time differences between strokes. I just did a little search out of curiosity. By taking the middle time (i.e. the 250th ranking time out of 500) for each stroke of the 50-54 male SCY swims last season respective to free. It was: fr 1.00 bk 1.26 br 1.32 fl 1.10 Yours was: fr 1.00 bk 1.10 br 1.38 fl 1.06 Myself: fr 1.00 bk 1.23 br 1.31 fl 1.13 I thought back was my slowest, turns out to be my fastest

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Jeff Enge — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:59:43 GMT

Wow those are great times, I guess my swimming goal would be not to have such a large variance/deficiency between any of the strokes... so breaststroke needs a lot of work. I’m probably too drag-sensitive for big improvements though, and swimming it feels like an accordion that’s being scrunched and stretched out over and over. i think I could see bigger improvements in back and fly, with some marginal improvement in free, but reducing the huge difference in the *** time is going to be a life long goal probably. Thanks. I'm 29 and swam through college though, so I have a bit of an age or background advantage over many Masters swimmers. Do you swim alone or with a coach? I would hazard a guess based on your ratios that there are some pretty big improvements you could make in your breaststroke just with some basic technique tweaks - or some work on your underwaters. There are definitely some unique flexibility and strength needs for breaststroke compared to the other strokes, that's for sure, and if you're missing those you are SOL to some degree. We can't all have the same blend of strength, flexibility and feel for the water as, say, Kevin Cordes!

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Allen Stark — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:55:37 GMT

Yeah, it's hard because phone cameras aren't great at self-videoing swimming because they generally aren't wide angle enough. Not to mention not usually being waterproof enough to hang around at the edge of the pool (or underwater!). Before I bought my GoPro knockoff a few weeks ago, I'd only gotten myself videoed once recently and only because one of the guys that swims with me was out early stretching. Now with the "FauxPro" I can get some good videos, though I do need to work on the angle to get more of the lap in frame. www.instagram.com/.../ Have you tried the early dolphin kick in your pullout? Are you faster with the dolphin during the pulldown?

RE: Time differentials between strokes

Former Member — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:52:39 GMT

Oh those are some nice videos (and a nice pool). I might get one and try it out. I took a video of someone swimming underwater with a iPhone, and between the narrow field of vision, the cloudy water that day, the turbulence shaking my hands and trying to hold my breath to see what was on the video, the video didn’t come out too well.