New member with an observation

RE: New member with an observation

Slow poke — Tue, 24 Oct 2017 09:56:53 GMT

Keep checking back, though, as many events will show up about 30-60 days before the event happens. For a lot of teams, Masters events take a back seat to USA Swimming meets, high school meets and other aquatic programming, so they cannot plan events too far in advance. Thanks for that. Hopefully I can find something I can participate in next year.

RE: New member with an observation

Patrick W. Brundage — Sun, 22 Oct 2017 08:59:47 GMT

Thanks for that. I am a little disappointed that there isn't a meet in Carbondale, IL, my alma mater. Hopefully I can be a part of some of those.Keep checking back, though, as many events will show up about 30-60 days before the event happens. For a lot of teams, Masters events take a back seat to USA Swimming meets, high school meets and other aquatic programming, so they cannot plan events too far in advance.

RE: New member with an observation

Slow poke — Sun, 22 Oct 2017 07:41:18 GMT

One place to check is the Calendar of Events: www.usms.org/.../event_search.php For National Championships and FINA World Championships, check here: www.usms.org/.../nationals For other events, check under "Events & Results" on the USMS home page. :cheerleader::cheerleader::cheerleader: ^Your Forumite fan section^ Thanks for that. I am a little disappointed that there isn't a meet in Carbondale, IL, my alma mater. Hopefully I can be a part of some of those.

RE: New member with an observation

Elaine Krugman — Sat, 21 Oct 2017 01:28:40 GMT

Speaking of which, how/where do I find out about any big meets during the year? Obviously I'm not ready for one yet, but I would like to participate in one next year. I have a fan section more or less who are all dying to know when and where they can go to watch me compete. One place to check is the Calendar of Events: www.usms.org/.../event_search.php For National Championships and FINA World Championships, check here: www.usms.org/.../nationals For other events, check under "Events & Results" on the USMS home page. :cheerleader::cheerleader::cheerleader: ^Your Forumite fan section^

RE: New member with an observation

Slow poke — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 11:56:03 GMT

No, I won't be at Indy, but thanks, Patrick! We'll catch up with each other one of these days. Don't I still owe you a :chug: (or a smoothie) for guessing the attendance at one of those past Nationals? :D Speaking of which, how/where do I find out about any big meets during the year? Obviously I'm not ready for one yet, but I would like to participate in one next year. I have a fan section more or less who are all dying to know when and where they can go to watch me compete.

RE: New member with an observation

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 09:58:30 GMT

Thanks, Elaine. Hope to see you again at a Nationals ... Indy?? No, I won't be at Indy, but thanks, Patrick! We'll catch up with each other one of these days. Don't I still owe you a :chug: (or a smoothie) for guessing the attendance at one of those past Nationals? :D

RE: New member with an observation

Slow poke — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 09:08:06 GMT

Exactly my point (regarding Knight)! Sorry to hear about your tooth. Now, that DOES suck! :badday: Take care of yourself, Poke! You'll be back in the water again before ya know it. :agree: Thanks! I am doing fine right now. There's only a slight amount of soreness but I still can't open my mouth very wide or eat very hard food for at least today. I'll be eager to go by next week.

RE: New member with an observation

Slow poke — Thu, 19 Oct 2017 12:06:19 GMT

To all who posted after I did to Slow Poke: . Those were some great posts. Congratulations, 'margo on your progress! Slow Poke, look up the name "Patrick Brundage," and this is what you will see for his results: www.usms.org/.../indresults.php Now, look for his name in the event rankings for the various events he has raced and see where he ranks in his age group: www.usms.org/.../toptimes.php Most of us here on the forums (including me) would be :blush: by this, because we "suck" compared to our peers. Patrick, however, DOESN'T. Go ahead, check it out and see for yourself. Patrick's stories is one of the BEST I have EVER read on the Forums. Thank you, Patrick. I believe we can all take away a lot from what you have written. Meanwhile, 'Poke, I, too, thank you for your service. I am sorry, however, for the way you have been treated. :rantonoff: Cruel remarks are completely unnecessary-- especially if they are not deserved! I am not a big fan of that method of training our troups-- or, anybody, for that matter. Take a look at Coach Popovich of the San Antonio Spurs. I believe you can produce greatness in ways other than by abuse (Think Bobby Knight, for example).:rantonoff: Here on the forums, we will NOT call you every name in the book! We will be the encouraging and positive balance to the abuse you are being dished out by the army brass. :angel: If anybody gives you any &%$# here, I will personally make it my goal to make their life miserable! :D As you said, thanks to all for their input here. I can tell we have some true studs and at least one dud. :) Haha, don't worry about me being yelled at or cussed at. It's not a daily thing. Besides, I joined the military at the age of 31, so I already knew the method to their madness. It's all a mental game. I'm not the type that feels the need to yell to make any point, but I understand those who do. Besides, if new guys can't handle a little toughness in a safe environment, they will crack in a heartbeat in a combat zone. So it's better to expose them then as opposed to when it matters. But actually I haven't been really yelled at in a few years now. My last position was in Korea working for some of the top Generals, and instead of ever yelling, it was a totally professional environment that I miss a lot. I would have never played for Bob Knight. I would have played for Mike K or a John Wooden, or even Pat Summitt if she had gone the men's route. Want to guess which of those 4 names have the fewest championships? :) Unfortunately this week has been rough and I will have to take a break from the pool for a couple days. I had a dentist appointment yesterday to replace a crown and instead of being able to replace it, it had decayed so much that all he could do was remove what was left of it. And that took a long painful amount of time. It royally sucked. Afterwards, he told me he wants me on quarters for the next 48 hours and no PT or physical activity (in this case, swim team). So it will have to be next Thursday, Friday before I can don the speedo again in the pool.

RE: New member with an observation

Slow poke — Thu, 19 Oct 2017 11:54:14 GMT

When I first read this, I'll have to admit I :lmao:. I wasn't making fun of you, I was just laughing at how funny YOU are. Then, I realized you may have been dead serious, and you weren't being funny at all. In that case, I offer you a sincere :bighug:. If you are indeed being serious, I apologize for laughing! (Just so you know, I read it to my husband, and he laughed, too, so you may be mad at both of us now.) ANYWAY, there are so many advantages to joining USMS as YOUNG as you are. If you stick with it (and, I hope you will), think of how many years you have ahead of you to improve! I joined USMS in 2010 when I was 48, and just when I felt like I was really making strides, age and congenital-related injuries kept yanking me back. I can't tell you how many times I have had to start over after recovering from this (non-swimming-related) injury or that surgery. You, my friend, are just a KID at 35! "Ripe age"? To quote Sumorunner, "Pfffft!" Ok, so you taught yourself to swim over the past 12 years. Kudos to you! What happened, though, is that you may have taught yourself (or ingrained) some bad habits without realizing it. Now, you are in a situation where somebody can watch you objectively, and those ingrained bad habits are being pointed out. Please don't be discouraged! Be thankful those corrections are being made at your YOUNG age! I hope you will be patient with yourself and stick with it-- and, stick with us here on the Forums. Your fellow Forumites have a lot to offer, including encouragement, great tips, and a great community spirit of support. If you can get somebody to shoot some video of your swimming (good quality, close-up footage), go ahead and upload the video to YouTube and post the links here. If you ask us Forumites to offer constructive criticism, I guarantee you that you will receive excellent "coaching" from some top USMS experts. Do you need help with breaststroke? My fellow frog, "King Frog" (Allen Stark) is a World Record holder in the 200 Breaststroke (65-69 age group), and gives fantastic feedback. Stick around, 'poke, ok? Good luck! :cheerleader: No worries Elaine; I was not mad at all. If you met me in person you'd realize that's how I always talk about myself. haha I'm glad you got a laugh out of it. The backstroke is what I would really like to get proficient at, and it's the only one I really got down at all. But right now I am being "fixed" on all the other techniques I've been doing wrong, and therein lies the frustration right now. But I'll stick with it, don't worry. I am at least glad to know I am not the latest to start this up as an activity. I am sorry to hear about your injuries too. I am always paranoid about that happening to me in daily duties, as it would stop me from becoming the swimmer I want to be. I will try to get a video done at some point. I'm a little shy about that but I will see what can be done.

RE: New member with an observation

Patrick W. Brundage — Thu, 19 Oct 2017 11:31:58 GMT

Patrick's stories is one of the BEST I have EVER read on the Forums. :applaud: Thank you, Patrick. I believe we can all take away a lot from what you have written.Thanks, Elaine. Hope to see you again at a Nationals ... Indy??

RE: New member with an observation

f1refl1es! — Thu, 19 Oct 2017 05:52:10 GMT

Unfortunately this week has been rough and I will have to take a break from the pool for a couple days. I had a dentist appointment yesterday to replace a crown and instead of being able to replace it, it had decayed so much that all he could do was remove what was left of it. And that took a long painful amount of time. It royally sucked. Afterwards, he told me he wants me on quarters for the next 48 hours and no PT or physical activity (in this case, swim team). So it will have to be next Thursday, Friday before I can don the speedo again in the pool. Ouch for the pain of the dental procedure and then a double-ouch about being away from the pool! Sorry, but I hope some "virtual pool time" here on the forums will help you heal fast!

RE: New member with an observation

Elaine Krugman — Thu, 19 Oct 2017 01:03:47 GMT

I would have never played for Bob Knight. I would have played for Mike K or a John Wooden, or even Pat Summitt if she had gone the men's route. Want to guess which of those 4 names have the fewest championships? :) Unfortunately this week has been rough and I will have to take a break from the pool for a couple days. I had a dentist appointment yesterday to replace a crown and instead of being able to replace it, it had decayed so much that all he could do was remove what was left of it. And that took a long painful amount of time. It royally sucked. Afterwards, he told me he wants me on quarters for the next 48 hours and no PT or physical activity (in this case, swim team). So it will have to be next Thursday, Friday before I can don the speedo again in the pool. Exactly my point (regarding Knight)! Sorry to hear about your tooth. Now, that DOES suck! :badday: Take care of yourself, Poke! You'll be back in the water again before ya know it. :agree:

RE: New member with an observation

Sumorunner — Wed, 18 Oct 2017 12:11:04 GMT

I was wondering about the demographics of masters swimming. Having been a long time runner, I've seen the breakdown by age in road races. As I approach 70, I know that only 4% of entries, or less, in any local run will be in that age group. Has anyone categorized this for swimming?

RE: New member with an observation

TRYM_Swimmer — Wed, 18 Oct 2017 11:15:22 GMT

Welcome and don't forget a saying that has been around since the beginning of masters in the '70's: In masters, we don't ask how good (or fast) you are, just how old you are. You will find support from your teammates and those you connect with as you go to meets (and I hope you will, as that is the fun part of masters.)

RE: New member with an observation

Elaine Krugman — Wed, 18 Oct 2017 02:43:06 GMT

To all who posted after I did to Slow Poke: :applaud: . Those were some great posts. Congratulations, 'margo on your progress! :cheerleader: Slow Poke, look up the name "Patrick Brundage," and this is what you will see for his results: www.usms.org/.../indresults.php Now, look for his name in the event rankings for the various events he has raced and see where he ranks in his age group: www.usms.org/.../toptimes.php :bow: Most of us here on the forums (including me) would be :blush: by this, because we "suck" compared to our peers. Patrick, however, DOESN'T. Go ahead, check it out and see for yourself. Patrick's stories is one of the BEST I have EVER read on the Forums. :applaud: Thank you, Patrick. I believe we can all take away a lot from what you have written. Meanwhile, 'Poke, I, too, thank you for your service. I am sorry, however, for the way you have been treated. :rantonoff: Cruel remarks are completely unnecessary-- especially if they are not deserved! I am not a big fan of that method of training our troups-- or, anybody, for that matter. Take a look at Coach Popovich of the San Antonio Spurs. I believe you can produce greatness in ways other than by abuse (Think Bobby Knight, for example).:rantonoff: Here on the forums, we will NOT call you every name in the book! We will be the encouraging and positive balance to the abuse you are being dished out by the army brass. :angel: If anybody gives you any &%$# here, I will personally make it my goal to make their life miserable! :D

RE: New member with an observation

Slow poke — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 12:22:30 GMT

Wow thank you all for your replies. I appreciate the input. And it's good to know I'm not as much of an odd duck as I thought. I suppose I was worried about my age because by military standards I am indeed an old man. I have to try hard everyday to perform as well as kids 10-18 years younger than me. But in terms of trying a swimming life, that's all new and I had no idea just how good everyone would be, regardless of their age. It's really frustrating because I have wanted to do this for so long and just never had an opportunity, mainly due to location or the fact that any potential team in the area had a practice schedule that made it impossible for me to ever join them. I will try and ask about making a video of myself once I get to where I am doing good enough to make a video for more than a few seconds of movement. That's no joke. But I'll get there. I'll admit I'm a little apprehensive about showing videos of me to people I don't personally know (Army social media policy thing). So I appreciate any and all comments and advice from everyone. Don't worry, I am active duty US Army so I am used to hearing every word in the book and every cruel remark whether deserved or not.

RE: New member with an observation

ssumargo — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 11:34:58 GMT

Hello, I just started swimming with a group late last year when I was 36. I was extremely terrible as well. Still am to be honest. When I first went back in the water, I would swim on my own at the gym. I went from resting every 25m to 200m. I took that as major progression. Boy was I wrong. I joined a masters team because I started getting bored/lonely. And from day 1, it was clear I was just simply terrible. But the coach was very encouraging, he told me to keep at it, and challenge myself. The only stroke I could do was freestyle, and I was doing everything wrong. Now a year later, I've moved 2 lanes over. When a set has backstroke and breaststroke, I am usually asked to lead the lane. I can swim butterfly with fins. Flipturns! I've done a couple of swim meets since, and I can see my progression. I'm still considered to be in one of the slow lanes. And there's still a lot of mistakes I am making. But I look forward to going to swim with the team every morning, even if I barely had any sleep. It has improved my personal life as well. I am much happier when I do go swim with the team. So yes, extremely worth it.

RE: New member with an observation

Karl_S — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 10:59:19 GMT

Wonderful post Patrick 100% agree.

RE: New member with an observation

Rich Abrahams — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 10:43:24 GMT

Unless you're Michael Phelps, Katie Ledecky or some other such swimming god/goddess, you will always find things to improve upon and find others who are better / faster than you. What matters is not the relative comparison of yourself to others, but of yourself to your past self and your future self - are you on your own path to personal improvement? I had a really cool experience back in 2012. I happened to be in Seattle when the Men's NCAA Division 1 championship meet was going on in Federal Way. I went to open lap swimming that morning in a pool in downtown Seattle and jumped into the fast lane. This was a basic community pool with pairs of lanes designated as fast, medium and slow. After awhile, while resting on the wall, one of the other swimmers in my lane stopped and said that she was going to move to the medium lane, "I was fast here until you showed up," she said (pleasantly, I will add). About 30 minutes into my workout, a few 20-something guys jumped into the lane and started swimming ... much faster than me. I noticed that they both were wearing Texas Longhorn suits and, like the lady who moved out when I got there, I moved over to the next 'fast lane' and let the young guns have the 'really fast' lane to themselves. I was fast until they showed up. As I finished my workout, those guys were on the wall resting and I asked them why they were swimming at this downtown pool instead of out at NCAAs. "Well, we didn't qualify for NCAAs." They were super-fast ... but the faster guys were in a different league again. Enjoy your own improvement and your own path. There's a lane for everyone! Wonderful post Patrick

RE: New member with an observation

waves101 — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 08:29:22 GMT

I agree with the above responses and will add to your statement, "Everything I thought I had been doing right for the last decade, the coach quickly pointed out everything I was doing wrong." Don't take this so seriously. I know several great swimmers who do something "wrong" but it works for them. The joy of swimming is that we all have something to work on to get better, forever. I guarantee if you interview Michael Phelps he can point out several things he worked on to make him self better and several more things he could've done and wished he had. So, follow the mantra of most USMS swimmers and Just Keep Swimming!

RE: New member with an observation

Sojerz — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 03:48:28 GMT

You're situation is not unusual at all. There is a very wide range of skill and speed in masters swimming even at meets, let alone practice. Don't focus on how fast or far you are swimming or what anyone else is doing in other lanes (especially those young whippersnappers). Focus on the technique changes your coach is suggesting. Because, it's technique that provides efficiency and speed, once you get past the basics. The speed and conditioning will develop over time, if you have good technique. A good coach can be so very helpful.

RE: New member with an observation

Patrick W. Brundage — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 02:26:54 GMT

My first observation is this: I suck. I mean I REALLY suck. Unless you're Michael Phelps, Katie Ledecky or some other such swimming god/goddess, you will always find things to improve upon and find others who are better / faster than you. What matters is not the relative comparison of yourself to others, but of yourself to your past self and your future self - are you on your own path to personal improvement? I had a really cool experience back in 2012. I happened to be in Seattle when the Men's NCAA Division 1 championship meet was going on in Federal Way. I went to open lap swimming that morning in a pool in downtown Seattle and jumped into the fast lane. This was a basic community pool with pairs of lanes designated as fast, medium and slow. After awhile, while resting on the wall, one of the other swimmers in my lane stopped and said that she was going to move to the medium lane, "I was fast here until you showed up," she said (pleasantly, I will add). About 30 minutes into my workout, a few 20-something guys jumped into the lane and started swimming ... much faster than me. I noticed that they both were wearing Texas Longhorn suits and, like the lady who moved out when I got there, I moved over to the next 'fast lane' and let the young guns have the 'really fast' lane to themselves. I was fast until they showed up. As I finished my workout, those guys were on the wall resting and I asked them why they were swimming at this downtown pool instead of out at NCAAs. "Well, we didn't qualify for NCAAs." They were super-fast ... but the faster guys were in a different league again. Enjoy your own improvement and your own path. There's a lane for everyone!

RE: New member with an observation

Swimspire — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 01:38:09 GMT

Hello, First of all, thank you for your service. What an inspirational swimming story you have! As waves101 said, one of the best parts about swimming is that there is ALWAYS something to work on. Your 12-year journey towards learning how to swim in the first place is the hard work that you put in towards joining our wonderful sport. It's the journey that counts. From here on out, it'll be about testing yourself, seeing how and what you can do to improve. Hopefully, we at the forum can help you along your swimming path! Best of luck.

RE: New member with an observation

Elaine Krugman — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 11:09:07 GMT

My first observation is this: I suck. I mean I REALLY suck. Everything I thought I had been doing right for the last decade, the coach quickly pointed out everything I was doing wrong. Which is good of course, because I want to learn and do it right and get better. But this is going to be tough, I can tell. When I first read this, I'll have to admit I :lmao:. I wasn't making fun of you, I was just laughing at how funny YOU are. Then, I realized you may have been dead serious, and you weren't being funny at all. In that case, I offer you a sincere :bighug:. If you are indeed being serious, I apologize for laughing! (Just so you know, I read it to my husband, and he laughed, too, so you may be mad at both of us now.) ANYWAY, there are so many advantages to joining USMS as YOUNG as you are. If you stick with it (and, I hope you will), think of how many years you have ahead of you to improve! I joined USMS in 2010 when I was 48, and just when I felt like I was really making strides, age and congenital-related injuries kept yanking me back. I can't tell you how many times I have had to start over after recovering from this (non-swimming-related) injury or that surgery. You, my friend, are just a KID at 35! "Ripe age"? To quote Sumorunner, "Pfffft!" Ok, so you taught yourself to swim over the past 12 years. Kudos to you! What happened, though, is that you may have taught yourself (or ingrained) some bad habits without realizing it. Now, you are in a situation where somebody can watch you objectively, and those ingrained bad habits are being pointed out. Please don't be discouraged! Be thankful those corrections are being made at your YOUNG age! I hope you will be patient with yourself and stick with it-- and, stick with us here on the Forums. Your fellow Forumites have a lot to offer, including encouragement, great tips, and a great community spirit of support. If you can get somebody to shoot some video of your swimming (good quality, close-up footage), go ahead and upload the video to YouTube and post the links here. If you ask us Forumites to offer constructive criticism, I guarantee you that you will receive excellent "coaching" from some top USMS experts. Do you need help with breaststroke? My fellow frog, "King Frog" (Allen Stark) is a World Record holder in the 200 Breaststroke (65-69 age group), and gives fantastic feedback. Stick around, 'poke, ok? Good luck! :cheerleader:

RE: New member with an observation

m2tall2 — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 09:53:39 GMT

My question to everyone is this: Am I unique in the age I join and try to be on an organized team? No. Not even a little. Actually, I’d say one of the most common age brackets to join a team. My first most common joining age is near 50, second most common is 35-40, third most common is 24-26, and lastly around 60-65. These are when I see people join after long breaks or years swimming by themselves. They tend to coincide with common periods for life changes that make people try new things or in the case of the 35-40’s, finally just feel settled enough in life to restart things they used to like to do. Is it worth my time and effort to do this? If you enjoy swimming and you like the coach and the team, yes.