The Lochte Rule

RE: The Lochte Rule

sunruh — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 11:56:32 GMT

what contiues to baffle me and show the utter stupidity of fina is this: backstroke seems to be whenever you are even remotely on your back but yet on backstroke you can be on your *** and its ok

RE: The Lochte Rule

knelson — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 11:32:15 GMT

key word - should Correct, but would you be willing to take the chance? You're definitely going to want to be clearly toward your *** to avoid a possible DQ. Another really dumb rule, in my opinion.

RE: The Lochte Rule

sunruh — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 10:19:54 GMT

technically you just can not be vertical. be at 91 degrees (ie slightly on the ***) and you should be good. key word - should

RE: The Lochte Rule

gobears — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 02:39:04 GMT

what contiues to baffle me and show the utter stupidity of fina is this: backstroke seems to be whenever you are even remotely on your back but yet on backstroke you can be on your *** and its ok ^^^This.

RE: The Lochte Rule

knelson — Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:29:46 GMT

IMO - more stupidity: swimswam.com/.../ So - you have to push off the wall and do nothing until you are on your *** in both the free on the IM and the fly now? That's just dumb. I do think it's an improvement, but I worry that this is still nearly impossible to judge well. Now the turn judge has to determine whether or not the swimmer is toward the *** before initiating a kick. No side kicking in fly is going to irk quite a few swimmers.

RE: The Lochte Rule

Patrick W. Brundage — Sat, 22 Jul 2017 09:42:02 GMT

The Lochte Rule is STUPID, FINA created a cure for something that wasn't a problem. FREE should be FREE. #IM4FreeFREESpeaking truth to power. +1

RE: The Lochte Rule

gobears — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:00:31 GMT

IMO - more stupidity: swimswam.com/.../ So - you have to push off the wall and do nothing until you are on your *** in both the free on the IM and the fly now? That's just dumb.

RE: The Lochte Rule

ande — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 12:27:18 GMT

The Lochte Rule is STUPID, FINA created a cure for something that wasn't a problem. FREE should be FREE. #IM4FreeFREE

RE: The Lochte Rule

orca1946 — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 11:41:26 GMT

Let's start a survey.

RE: The Lochte Rule

knelson — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 05:51:19 GMT

but since "crawl" isnt defined anywhere in the rule book, but freestyle is, a *new* section on crawl would have to be added that would basically be the same as freestyle but you cannot go on your back during an IM or leg of the relay. thus you have added an entire section that can be summed up in 6 words -> "and a stroke not previously swum" Exactly and that's the reason I think all the problems would be solved just by removing the wording that the fourth leg needs to be a stroke not previously swum. If someone really wants to repeat fly as the fourth leg of an IM, go for it I say!

RE: The Lochte Rule

orca1946 — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 12:00:28 GMT

It seems as if this is the time to just that.

RE: The Lochte Rule

sunruh — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 08:23:43 GMT

RE: The Lochte Rule

sunruh — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 12:49:20 GMT

well just look at what mens records have been broken lately: 100 *** - a full body suit wasnt used to begin with and wasnt broken with 100 back - again not full body 200im - again not full body broken by same guy by just 0.02 1500 - by the doper who then couldnt make the finals at the olympics ... hmmm wonder why? no hemoglobin additives yang? and i think thats it so the only fully body suit record broken was done by a known doper had to add 200 *** - again not full body suit www.fina.org/.../wr_50m_mar_20_2017.pdf

RE: The Lochte Rule

jpetyk — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 09:18:55 GMT

if BACKstroke includes swimming on your ***....what exactly is legal on the 4th leg of an IM? you cannot swim on your back and since backstroke includes swimming on your ***? is truely only SIDEstroke allowed? Perhaps they should change the wording to front crawl, since that is what "freestyle" tends to be, then they can define the stroke, and the turn. While they're at it, they could change the rule that front crawl requires an open turn to make sure that the swimmer is NEVER on their back during that leg of the race. And take out any dolphin kicks, because that is butterfly. Then in a 10-20 years, the commentaters can have a field day speculating why the current IM records are still standing.

RE: The Lochte Rule

orca1946 — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 05:23:40 GMT

Agreed to make Crawl the last of I M . That would solve a whole host of wording problems.

RE: The Lochte Rule

sunruh — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 03:50:08 GMT

well at a few meets now...there is a "ledge" for back stroke starts. ah but not ALL meets...just some! just like some meets have the "wedge" blocks and some dont but to point more to the stupidity of fina....the underwater cameras cannot be used to DQ someone...no, just to confirm it? wait if you cannot DQ them by the camera, why are you using it at all? oh i cannot see correctly from the deck so i need to look in the water...but i cant look in the water in the 1st place? and why is it that there is only 1 judge on a side except at the really big meets and then its 1 per lane? are you not capable of looking at the underwater video? oh wait...thats only after the on deck calls the DQ. which we now need 8 of. and that 1 judge per lane seems blind to THREE (3) dolphin kicks in a single *** stroke turn!!! if BACKstroke includes swimming on your ***....what exactly is legal on the 4th leg of an IM? you cannot swim on your back and since backstroke includes swimming on your ***? is truely only SIDEstroke allowed?

RE: The Lochte Rule

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 03:27:38 GMT

i mean in the 100 and 200 backstroke you get to roll onto your front and take 1 freestyle pull...how is that BACKstroke if you are on your ***? Of course, as I'm sure you remember, we were not allowed to do that for the longest time (they changed that rule after I graduated from college). Since I wasn't swimming competitively when the rule was changed, I was never really sure why they did it. Maybe because of difficulty in judging the cross-over turn? But they still have that turn in IM... I've always thought that, if they are going to allow freestyle turns in back, then they may as well allow us to dive off the blocks instead of use the traditional backstroke starts. There really is nothing worse than starting your race by slipping badly on the start in backstroke, and it can happen to anyone.

RE: The Lochte Rule

sunruh — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 09:12:56 GMT

this rule once again shows the complete and utter ineptitude and stupidity of fina. 1st we had the kobishie rule to ALLOW the underwater dolphin kick on *** stroke because they didnt want to have to enforce the rule and DQ the world record holder and olympic champion. yeah maybe he wouldnt have that record and gold if he has swam it legally in the 1st place! then to top it off, the london olympic gold medalist publicly says he took 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dolphin kicks!!! because you know, if 1 is legal then maybe i can take 3 and get away with it. a local friend and awesome coach from austin swim club said of his bronze medal - i only took 1 dolphin kick and and am proud of my accomplishment. that's right brandon...you got 3rd because you only took the legal 1 dolphin kick. then the non-swimming fina members make the opposite type of rule...lets dq lochte because nobody can beat him. now, to be fair. since forever the last leg of the IM has always been "a stroke not previously swum". this is true. HOWEVER!!! if being on your back is a dq for freestyle, should not being on your front for backstroke be a dq as well? i mean in the 100 and 200 backstroke you get to roll onto your front and take 1 freestyle pull...how is that BACKstroke if you are on your ***? HOW is doing any dolphin kicks part of *** stroke? oh oh can we allow 1 arm butterfly? ya know 1 arm and then the other arm say in diametrically opposed fashion? and while we are on rules...why is it super suits were ever allowed? oh did you like the big payout speedo gave you? well right up until they gave you another pig payout to have them banned because they didnt make the better suit? the only bigger joke in sports tham fina...is fifa

RE: The Lochte Rule

orca1946 — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 12:44:22 GMT

Watched the trials to get into Budapest today and the lochte rule was being enforced and talked about to the swimmers. "Think about your free in the I M so as not to get QD Q'ed" coaches were telling their swimmers.

RE: The Lochte Rule

orca1946 — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 01:00:33 GMT

Agreed with the rule being unevenly enforced. We all live with the 15 m/17yard rule as to how far under water we can be so do we need a 5 yards rule for this instance?

RE: The Lochte Rule

Former Member — Sat, 01 Jul 2017 12:35:40 GMT

As a stroke or turn judge, I would have DQed Lochte. I would not have DQed John Thomas Larson, who pushed off on his back but rotated immediately (and likely spent as much time not on his back during his back-back turn, as he did on his back during the free-free turn). Ella Eastin reportedly did at least one dolphin kick towards the back coming out of her free-free turn. Technically more than 1/4 of the race in the style of backstroke in breach of SW 9.1 - but nothing as blatant as Lochte's "I'm faster dolphin kicking on my back than on my front, so how about I swim ~10m of my 50m freestyle leg SDK underwater on my back". When FINA drafted their interpretation of SW 9.1 following Lochte's non-DQ in Kazan, I wonder if they even thought about how it might impact free-free turns in 400IM or short course 200IM. Eastin is one of those great short course swimmers who struggles in long course. She can still go to the world university games.

RE: The Lochte Rule

knelson — Sat, 01 Jul 2017 11:03:46 GMT

I was very excited to see Abrahm DeVine make the Worlds team tonight with his second place finish in the 200 IM, putting that 400 IM DQ in the rear view mirror. Abrahm used to swim on the team I train with. He is an astoundingly efficient and graceful swimmer. Just made it look so easy.

RE: The Lochte Rule

gobears — Sat, 01 Jul 2017 10:43:32 GMT

Agree. This rule has always annoyed me, even before Lochte's "stunt". It's "freestyle", so what's with this restriction? I can swim a 100 freestyle any stroke or style I wish, so why not the "freestyle" leg of the 400 IM. ...And while I am ranting, let me point out the double standard here. FINA seems to be allowing quite a lot of butterfly during breaststroke races, but doing backstroke (actually upside down butterfly) on freestyle races is disallowed, and vigorously enforced at Nationals this week. ^^^This!!! IMO, pushing off on your back is no more backstroke than dolphin kicking on your stomach is fly. Dumb rule.

RE: The Lochte Rule

Karl_S — Sat, 01 Jul 2017 06:53:57 GMT

Just remove the wording that the fourth leg needs to be a style different than the first three legs. Agree. This rule has always annoyed me, even before Lochte's "stunt". It's "freestyle", so what's with this restriction? I can swim a 100 freestyle any stroke or style I wish, so why not the "freestyle" leg of the 400 IM. ...And while I am ranting, let me point out the double standard here. FINA seems to be allowing quite a lot of butterfly during breaststroke races, but doing backstroke (actually upside down butterfly) on freestyle races is disallowed, and vigorously enforced at Nationals this week.

RE: The Lochte Rule

Mark Usher — Sat, 01 Jul 2017 06:52:42 GMT

I officiated at an age group developmental meet this morning and all the buzz at the pre-meet official's meeting was about the Lochte Rule. The consensus was that it is a bad rule and too subjective to be consistently enforced.