400 IM

RE: 400 IM

fatboy — Tue, 06 Jun 2017 01:04:01 GMT

"Build each stroke on #1 " - on each 50 build your speed so you are swimming faster at the 50 yd mark than you were swimming at the 10 yd mark #2 at your target IM pace dived by 2" - you are swimming a 200 IM so take your target 400 IM time and divide that tim in half. If you target 400 IM time is 4:00 your target time for this repeat is half of that or 2:00 - if your 400 IM target is 6:00 you swant to go 3:00

RE: 400 IM

Former Member — Sat, 03 Jun 2017 11:38:49 GMT

RE: 400 IM

ForceDJ — Sat, 03 Jun 2017 11:38:31 GMT

8 x 50: on 1:00, 2 each stroke, build the odds and make sure the evens are at your target 400 IM race pace 4 x 100: on 1:50, do as 100 IMs, descend to your target race pace divided by 4, ideally starting on #1 no slower than 12 seconds above that Masters' Two Minutes and an easy 50 2 x 200: on 3:20, build each stroke on #1, try to make #2 at your target 400 IM race pace divided by two 4 x 50: active recovery, on 0:45, 0:50, 0:55, 2:30 1 x 400: IM on 6:00, AFAP, from blocks Can someone translate that for me? I think this is why I am not solely a dedicated swimmer. "Build each stroke on #1 and try to make #2 at your target IM pace dived by 2" What's all that mean? (rhetorical) I think I'm just lucky to swim 400 meters using all four strokes, properly, without stopping. On the other hand...swimming crawl stroke for 1500m, or 1600m, or a mile (or two or three) in the pool or open water...not a problem. I relate the effort required for the 400IM to running the 400m hurdles in track. When I was in h.s. I was a distance runner. I could run miles on end. But to run 400 meters with the added task of the hurdles...IMO that is about the toughest race on the track. As long as I've been swimming...to me it seems the general consensus around the pool is that most swimmers "...can swim BF, can make it 100m BF if needed." Beyond that requires a BF specialist. But there are swimmers out there who can just naturally, easily, swim BF for distances well beyond 100m. But for me to swim BF for 100m...AND THEN swim another 300m...it's a task. Dan

RE: 400 IM

Patrick W. Brundage — Sat, 03 Jun 2017 11:22:44 GMT

I can only say: 400IM on LCM is a beast and really hard for the body and mind...I guess if you want swim this event well, you have to put a lot of yards in your workouts...quantity over quality..you have to swim more than 20km/week at least!. I dont see any other way going through it without putting massiv bulk and volume.I disagree. It is a relatively short race (e.g., vs a 1500 or an open water swim). What you need to train is quality and variety. I rarely train stroke repeats at target pace over 50 and do only a few straight 400 IMs in workout. The race is 4 x 100 stroke, so I've taken a 'race pace' training approach (my own variation) for this. There's no need to worry about training 200s of any of the strokes during workout. My favorite training set for the 400 IM is: 8 x 50: on 1:00, 2 each stroke, build the odds and make sure the evens are at your target 400 IM race pace 4 x 100: on 1:50, do as 100 IMs, descend to your target race pace divided by 4, ideally starting on #1 no slower than 12 seconds above that Masters' Two Minutes and an easy 50 2 x 200: on 3:20, build each stroke on #1, try to make #2 at your target 400 IM race pace divided by two 4 x 50: active recovery, on 0:45, 0:50, 0:55, 2:30 1 x 400: IM on 6:00, AFAP, from blocks When I am training for a 400 IM (the main event I train for), I might do that test set every week, at most. I could almost always hit my target race pace on the 50s, many times on the last 100 IM, but almost never on the 200 IM. My average weekly volume over the last 5 years as been 14.5K yards per week. I don't see any need for massive volume as a Masters swimmer unless you start training for an open water race longer than one mile. Even when I recently spent the 2015-2016 season training for the 1500 and 1650, my training volume was moderate and much of my pace effort was done on 50 or 100 repeats at target pace.

RE: 400 IM

sunruh — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 12:19:17 GMT

The quickest road to pain and a bad 400 IM is to blast the fly. my name is on that road. LA83 meet. this was the international meet at the brand new USC Olympic pool a year before the 1984 Olympics. since i cannot swim the 3rd leg of an IM to save my life i have always done the "take it out hard and die like a man" approach. and i did. and the nice big score board was lit up with me ahead of my team mates Ricardo Prado's WR at the 100. and i managed to stay ahead of that WR split at the 200 as well. i could hear the announcer and in my head i was going "shut up man there is breaststroke next". by the 225 i was in 2nd place....by the 250 i was in 3rd...275 4th and a "most impressive" 6th at the 300 turn. the 100 free didnt matter...i was done. cooked. bonked. you name it the road paver went over me. i forget what day it was, but i watched the russian distance god Vladimir Salnikiov drink a real Coke and eat a Snickers bar and 20mins later break his own WR in the 800m.

RE: 400 IM

orca1946 — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 11:53:58 GMT

Well ---- as I get older , I found a way to make the 400 im less of an effort. At the state meet this year I forgot to do 50 of the back stroke!!!??? It was easier but, the ref told me as I exited the pool "you know you forgot 50 of the back stroke" Is this the start of Alzhiemers for me?

RE: 400 IM

orca1946 — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 06:40:50 GMT

Nope - short yards. I just went into br after 50 back. I was so fixed on beating a fellow in my age group - I just totally forgot 50 !!! WOW did my coach work me on I m sets after that and before Nationals. P.S. I did well at Riverside,Ca. Nationals in the 400 I M with a 3rd Place medal in the 70 -74 age group. I did ALL of it this time.

RE: 400 IM

knelson — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 01:04:42 GMT

RE: 400 IM

ForceDJ — Wed, 31 May 2017 09:37:18 GMT

The original post seems to be as much about training for the 400 IM as race strategy. ... more generally, swimming endurance. I'm not really much of a swim meet participant...more of an open water swimmer. But I do seek to increase endurance, and just like the idea of being more of (not necessarily completely) a well-rounded swimmer. IMO, the 400 IM necessitates a great deal of endurance...like running the 400m hurdles in a track meet. Not the longest race in the meet...but it takes a heck of a lot to complete. Incidentally...I timed myself again yesterday at the end of my workout and took 20 seconds off my PR (still don't want to mention what the actual time is because it's rather slow even for my age group). But I just like the fact that I can now swim the entire 400m IM using proper BF stroke, and without stopping (in the BF). Dan

RE: 400 IM

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 31 May 2017 09:27:22 GMT

Yup. That's a close second in my books in terms of fun. And, while a 400 IM always hurts, I have done some near-perfectly executed 200 flys where I got into the right rhythm and felt smooth the whole way. Of course, I've also had most of my 200 flys where the piano and monkey jump on my back right around the 160 yard/meter mark. Yes. When done poorly, the 200 LCM fly is the only event where I can seriously doubt my ability to finish the race legally. When paced correctly it can be sublime. The original post seems to be as much about training for the 400 IM as race strategy. I agree that you need to be able to cruise butterfly; you'll never win a 400 IM on the strength of the butterfly leg but you can easily lose it there if you go too hard. Beyond that, I would spend my time on developing a breaststroke (the portion of the IM that takes the longest) and, more generally, swimming endurance.

RE: 400 IM

Former Member — Tue, 30 May 2017 16:17:41 GMT

In other news, getting a colonoscopy is the greatest and most fun way to spend a day. I haven't had a colonoscopy but have done the 400 Individual Massacre. I think I would try a colonoscopy before doing another 400 IM

RE: 400 IM

Patrick W. Brundage — Tue, 30 May 2017 12:26:24 GMT

For me, a well executed 200 fly is the cat's meow.Yup. That's a close second in my books in terms of fun. And, while a 400 IM always hurts, I have done some near-perfectly executed 200 flys where I got into the right rhythm and felt smooth the whole way. Of course, I've also had most of my 200 flys where the piano and monkey jump on my back right around the 160 yard/meter mark.

RE: 400 IM

Chris Stevenson — Tue, 30 May 2017 09:25:03 GMT

No race comes close to the beauty or high that a well-executed 400 IM can produce. It starts out beautiful, but then adds three other strokes. For me, a well executed 200 fly is the cat's meow.

RE: 400 IM

srcoyote — Tue, 30 May 2017 09:20:25 GMT

I like the above triathlete strategy. Though I was a fly specialist and sometime 400 IM swimmer in my youth, in my aging, I only have one speed for fly, and it's not sustainable for more than 100 meters. My loss of core and shoulder flexibility as I age means that if I try to go any slower I'll either go too vertical and stall or fail to make arm recovery and stall. So I'll stick to my distance open water and work in fly for fun during workouts.

RE: 400 IM

ForceDJ — Fri, 26 May 2017 09:01:53 GMT

In other news, getting a colonoscopy is the greatest and most fun way to spend a day. I've only had one so far...at my 50th b-day. It wasn't a day at the park, but I didn't think it was all that bad. The day/night before prep is the only bad part. The Dr. gave me such a clean bill of (colon) health that I was put on the ten year plan. Still another four years until my next one. Dan

RE: 400 IM

aquageek — Fri, 26 May 2017 07:48:42 GMT

The 400 IM is the world's greatest and most fun event... In other news, getting a colonoscopy is the greatest and most fun way to spend a day.

RE: 400 IM

Gary P — Thu, 25 May 2017 12:57:15 GMT

The 400 IM is the world's greatest and most fun event with a simple race strategy... To quote a triathlon acquaintance of mine, "Take the first half easy, then go easy on the second half to make up for going too hard in the first half" :banana:

RE: 400 IM

Patrick W. Brundage — Thu, 25 May 2017 12:20:33 GMT

The 400 IM is the world's greatest and most fun event with a simple race strategy: On all strokes, aim to feel like you are negative splitting each 100 - always use the first 50 as an opportunity to 'get into' your stroke and then build the last 50 I saw a quote from an Olympic 200 butterflyer once (can't recall the name, but my recollection is that he competed in the Spitz era) who said that he always wanted the first 100 of his 200 fly to feel like he was 'sleeping' through it. I try to apply that concept in my 400 IM. The quickest road to pain and a bad 400 IM is to blast the fly. Other than that, just enjoy it. No race comes close to the beauty or high that a well-executed 400 IM can produce.

RE: 400 IM

Elaine Krugman — Thu, 25 May 2017 04:17:37 GMT

To quote a triathlon acquaintance of mine, "Take the first half easy, then go easy on the second half to make up for going too hard in the first half" :banana: When I recover from my injuries, that will be my new mantra for ALL races! :chug: My "racing" days are over. :sad:

RE: 400 IM

jpetyk — Wed, 24 May 2017 02:34:43 GMT

Nice. I just signed up for my first ever 400 IM (in any course) and am praying I make it. I think I will try your method for the next 8 weeks and see what happens.