2017 Masters Motivational Times

RE: 2017 Masters Motivational Times

Former Member — Fri, 20 Jan 2017 16:52:11 GMT

I am new to this. How does one use motivational times? In age group swimming it is used to qualify for meets but for masters it is just for fun to see how you compare to others in you age group.

RE: 2017 Masters Motivational Times

timothynt — Fri, 20 Jan 2017 01:44:59 GMT

Can we add a few more letters then so I can actually get a motivational time level? :)

RE: 2017 Masters Motivational Times

timothynt — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 05:20:01 GMT

I am new to this. How does one use motivational times?

RE: 2017 Masters Motivational Times

Chris Stevenson — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 03:47:32 GMT

Very cool, Swimosaur! As you mentioned, "close is close enough." As the host of the USMS Postal Swimtathlon League, I was trying to find a way to compare all the age groups and have an age-graded CHAMPION. On a related note, do you have any thoughts on how to compare and adjust for gender as well? Certainly, if I used Stevenson's model, I could come up with a point system comparison, but there is too much data entry...I need something I can load into a spreadsheet. Thanks! Mark I have it in spreadsheet form, if you want to PM me with your email address I'll send it to you.

RE: 2017 Masters Motivational Times

SwimDogs — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 10:24:18 GMT

RE: 2017 Masters Motivational Times

SwimDogs — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 10:21:30 GMT

No hurry at all. It would be great to have something by the end of the month when I would post the early results for the Swimtathlon League. Attached is last year's FINAL RESULTS....I have the individual times in a spreadsheet, so if there was a way to add a field with the age and gender "grading," that would be perfect. Thanks!

RE: 2017 Masters Motivational Times

Swimosaur — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 07:14:07 GMT

... "close is close enough." ... trying to find a way to compare all the age groups ... ... do you have any thoughts on how to compare and adjust for gender as well? Yes, as long as you are happy with "close enough". When do you need it?

RE: 2017 Masters Motivational Times

orca1946 — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 05:22:49 GMT

OK I can make or better 9 of those times. Good for 70 1/2 Others I need to work on. Thanx

RE: 2017 Masters Motivational Times

scales — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 02:09:03 GMT

Thank you! I've looked at your 2016 times so much ever since I started swimming. This is such a useful thing you provide.

RE: 2017 Masters Motivational Times

Swimosaur — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:07:02 GMT

Any chance, with your spreadsheet expertise, that you could come up with a formula to update and improve this "age grading" calculation from 2006? www.usms.org/.../articledisplay.php I did something very similar in this post. The main difference is, I used more aggressive averaging, Nordstrom used 5th place times from 2004; I used the average of 10th place times from 2013-2015. Nordstrom calculated age-grading ratios for both men and women, for all events. I wanted a smaller number of numbers in the final table, so I averaged over events, and combined men & women. In addition, Nordstrom used data for all events; I threw out IMs and all events longer than 200 yards (simply because it made my job easier. I wasn't trying to be so thorough and meticulous). Nordstrom's ratios are less than one, mine are the reciprocals (greater than one). Given that, I would not expect there to be too much difference between my factors and (the reciprocal of) Nordstrom's factors, for the bottom row of his table, which is the average over all events. See graph below. The relevant equations are (for my factors), If you're trying to convert a time from a younger age group to an older age group (from my 2015 post),Younger Time in sec * ( Older Factor / Younger Factor ) = Predicted Older Time in sec And if you're trying to convert a time from an older age group to a younger age group,Older Time in sec * ( Younger Factor / Older Factor ) = Predicted Younger Time in sec The factors are, AG Factor 18-24 100.00 25-29 100.81 30-34 102.88 35-39 104.38 40-44 105.49 45-49 107.05 50-54 109.49 55-59 114.81 60-64 123.22 65-69 135.87 70-74 156.47 75-79 190.36 80-84 214.17 For comparison, here's a graph of my factors vs. Nordstrom's averages, forums.usms.org/attachment.php To my eye, The factors Nordstrom vs. Swimosaur are not too different for age groups through 45-49 for both men and women. For men, they are nearly identical through 65-69. For age groups 50+, Nordstrom's factors are higher for women than men. I also noticed this in the 2015 post ("The curves are almost parallel, but not quite."), but I averaged men & women anyway. Personally, if I were going to do this, I would use my factors and formulas. They are simpler. You don't have to wade through big tables of numbers. After all, this is an inexact science, close enough is good enough, and your time would probably be better spent doing a killer kick set :) For another, probably superior method, see Chris Stevenson's calculator.

RE: 2017 Masters Motivational Times

SwimDogs — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 09:51:36 GMT

Nice work, Swimosaur! Any chance, with your spreadsheet expertise, that you could come up with a formula to update and improve this "age grading" calculation from 2006? www.usms.org/.../articledisplay.php Let me know if you might be able to do this easily...it's a bit beyond my capabilities. Thanks, Mark Johnston USMS Online Workouts

RE: 2017 Masters Motivational Times

Elaine Krugman — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 08:54:39 GMT

:applaud: Thanks for all that you do, Swimosaur! You do a great job with this! :chug: