'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Former Member — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 06:45:08 GMT

Butterfly.....love watching someone who can do this with ease...it's a beautiful stroke!! I am just starting to "have a go" can mange to do dolphin kick for about 25 m probably no where near correct, tried a few arm strokes...a little hard to do!! I'll get there ....as a solo swimmer it's a bit hard to know what's happening!!! But I know I'll eventually manage it, I did teach myself freestyle years ago....then I could co ordinate arms and breathing but years later I'm good! The other stroke that's fun is old English back stroke😄

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

orca1946 — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 11:51:36 GMT

You can also do fly kick drill on your back to make yourself kick UP to the surface.

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Nichollsvi — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 08:57:29 GMT

Yep, that is probably my problem. I'm trying to stay more streamlined but the stomach drops from the weight of the excess skin.

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

orca1946 — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 05:28:23 GMT

Try fly kick with fins on to see the "keep your feet under water" difference. Yes - a kick by bending the knees too much will do that . It should mostly come from the quads and hips.

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Nichollsvi — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 08:45:19 GMT

Thanks. I would suspect knee kick first. I will work on this. Thanks!!

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Swimspire — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 08:35:47 GMT

It's difficult to say without seeing you swimming in person, and what you are referring to as your "second kick". If you mean that the second kick happens when your arms exit the water, it could be because your kick is coming predominantly from your knees as opposed to maintaining a balance between your core, your hips and knees. A wide, knee-based kick could cause your feet to come out of the water. If you're referring to the second kick as the kick that occurs when your hands enter the water, there is a possibility that you are entering the water too deep with your upper body, causing your feet to pop out of the water. You can work on single arm butterfly drill, either side breathing or front breathing, making sure to focus on keeping your leading arm more at the surface of the water and minimizing the splashing caused by your feet coming out of the water. You can also work on learning to kick both when your arms are at the front and when your arms are at your side (you can do a couple of kicks at one position, then switch, and continue switching back and forth). Good luck!

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Nichollsvi — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 10:17:37 GMT

Well for all your butterfliers out there: I learned to swim fly as a master a few years ago. I just got into doing 100 fly. I did a 400 IM in a meet this weekend. Any comments for working on it? My problem I believe is a weak core. I have problems getting the shoulders up and start to drop the stomach area. The problem is that I've dropped over 100 pounds and the excess skin, even when corsetted in a tight Speedo/Nike/Tyr/etc. still might be an issue. I've been working on core strength. Legs below the knees, I'm happy when they work. :) Outside of that my arms are pretty strong and I work on them a lot. The oddest thing I have though is that now my feet on the second kick are above water. I can't figure out how I'm managing that or how to fix it. Any ideas? Thanks.

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Former Member — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 05:43:54 GMT

I just finished an alternate stroke set today that included 800 yds of fly (1 x 200, 2 X 100, 4 X 50 and 8 X 25). The guy in the lane next to me ask if I was a butterfly specialist. My response: No, I just have a low IQ. LOL. good answer.

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

orca1946 — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 12:40:05 GMT

At our team swim practices - we are all doing some type of fly drills and full stroke whether you are a tri or biker. We learn and do ALL the strokes.

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

ForceDJ — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 12:33:20 GMT

Oh, OK. I see what you're saying. Kind of a similar phenomenon happened with bicycles back when mountain bikes were revolutionized in the 80s. Before that, about 95% of multi-speed bikes were road/racing bikes. You could get that style of bike in every department store that sold bikes. But then the mountain bike came along and they were more popular with your average non-racing bicyclist. Now, you have to go to a bicycle shop to get a road bike. Dan

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Michael Heather — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 10:21:31 GMT

Butterfly swimmer here, what do you want to know? I rarely do any butterfly sets any more, mostly due to lack of motivation. Even when I am raring to go, I don't do more than 5-600 yards per workout, it is the one stroke that will end your day early if over indulged. Crawl is similar enough to get the muscle groups strengthened and doing a lot of dolphin kick helps with abs if done correctly. Weight work also helps a lot and running stairs or stadiums helps with aerobic conditioning. glutes and leg strength. The last thing is something you cannot train for, it is genetic. Flexible shoulders are a giant help swimming fly, but are not required. Racing butterfly is best approached with the attitude that it is fun, otherwise it will surely not be.

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Former Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 05:02:47 GMT

If you quadruple the number of triathletes (no butterfly) while the number of pool swimmers (some butterfly) stays constant, the fraction of total people swimming butterfly goes down. At my pool, I would say way more than half the people are fitness swimmers (no butterfly), and way more than half the people training for some event are triathletes (no butterfly). Of the pool swimmers, some fraction swim fly some fraction of the time. So at my pool, fly is pretty rare. True, most of the folks its freestyle, sometimes backstroke or breaststroke. Some use fins to do butterfly.

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Swimosaur — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 11:42:14 GMT

Wait, not sure what an increase in triathlon participation has to do with swimmers at the pool. If you quadruple the number of triathletes (no butterfly) while the number of pool swimmers (some butterfly) stays constant, the fraction of total people swimming butterfly goes down. At my pool, I would say way more than half the people are fitness swimmers (no butterfly), and way more than half the people training for some event are triathletes (no butterfly). Of the pool swimmers, some fraction swim fly some fraction of the time. So at my pool, fly is pretty rare.

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

smontanaro — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 11:13:33 GMT

Yeah...butterfly swimmers sounds good. Dan Or "butternuts". :)

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

ForceDJ — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 10:03:40 GMT

Roughly 4-fold increase in triathletes over the last 15 years, all of whom swim freestyle exclusively. The butterflyers could still be there, in the same numbers, but it seems like fewer ... Wait, not sure what an increase in triathlon participation has to do with swimmers at the pool. I'm a triathlete and I'm swimming butterfly at the pool (note that I'm not a real butterfly swimmer...just a hack). I've been doing triathlon for more than 30 years. Most of the people that come into the sport don't come from swimming. But I know that triathletes also train at the pool, and triathlon doesn't require a participant to swim butterfly stroke. At any rate...there are still Masters, and other swimmers out there. But no one swimming butterfly??? Dan

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Patrick W. Brundage — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 10:01:21 GMT

In my opinion, butterfly is a delicate-flower-of-a-stroke, not to be practiced too much, only to be summoned at the most auspicious of taper times, when the stars are aligned, the shoulders loose, the knees double-jointed and after a few magical spells have been cast upon and potions adjoined to the pristine, chlorinated waters ... said the man whose third favorite event (in the right circumstances) is the 200 fly.

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Swimosaur — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 01:13:53 GMT

"Hmm, ya don't see people swimming butterfly much anymore." It's could be this At the end of 1999, membership (annual and one-day) stood at 127,824. Those numbers had more than doubled to 262,703 by 2005, and USA Triathlon continued to experience double-digit annual growth through 2007 when it reached 336,356 members. After hitting 441,060 members in 2009, USA Triathlon consistently experienced 4 percent growth in 2010 and 2011 before a 5.64 percent increase in annual and one-day members in 2012, topping out at a record high 510,859. Roughly 4-fold increase in triathletes over the last 15 years, all of whom swim freestyle exclusively. The butterflyers could still be there, in the same numbers, but it seems like fewer ...

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

ForceDJ — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 06:33:34 GMT

> 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?) Perhaps sidestep the issue and use "butterfly swimmers"? :) Yeah...butterfly swimmers sounds good. Dan

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Mark Usher — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 03:57:40 GMT

Our Masters program is IM based, so we swim some fly almost every day. Last week our coach had a "Fly Friday" workout where the main set was 1,000 yards of fly, followed by a 200 yard set of underwater dolphins, followed by a 200 IM, and finished up with a 100 IM for time. Lots of fun, but my arms weren't quite working properly by the time I got to the last 100 IM.

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

smontanaro — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 03:37:47 GMT

> 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?) Perhaps sidestep the issue and use "butterfly swimmers"? :) FWIW, Chrome doesn't like either of your prospective plural nouns, highlighting both: forums.usms.org/attachment.php

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

tjrpatt — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 02:44:19 GMT

I'm pretty much only a freestyle/crawl stroke swimmer. I'll do lots of interval sets in the pool, but only swim very little of the other strokes. Often I'll just throw in an IM here and there just to break up the monotony. But I'm by no means proficient at those other strokes. Yesterday, as I rested after doing a 400 IM, the woman in the lane next to me (obviously an experienced swimmer) came to a stop and asks "Were you just swimming butterfly?" I told her I was and she responded "Hmm, ya don't see people swimming butterfly much anymore." Dan I guess that she doesn't watch the Olympics and goes to a Masters meet. She talks like butterfly is on the endangered stroke list or something. What kind of "I don't see people swim butterfly world" does this woman live in!"

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

orca1946 — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:54:56 GMT

Or respond ---"I could't figure out how to get just one arm out of the water at a time"

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

Former Member — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 14:39:27 GMT

RE: 'Real' butterfliers where are you? (or is it butterflyers?)

ForceDJ — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 11:05:15 GMT