Doping among masters athletes

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Thu, 16 Feb 2017 06:37:06 GMT

Hi there, I'm a writer looking at this issue, and am wondering if you'd be interested in sharing your thoughts with me in more detail? You can contact me at ellenhardy4@gmail.com. Best, Elle

RE: Doping among masters athletes

jpetyk — Mon, 24 Oct 2016 09:41:48 GMT

:confused::confused::confused: And I suppose Victor Von Doom is the head of their swimming federation You should see him swim! It's electrifying.

RE: Doping among masters athletes

sunruh — Thu, 20 Oct 2016 12:29:16 GMT

oh that is easy, because whenever fina is brought up it is only a big dark secret. no info from fina is ever actually written down anywhere. only if you are in "fina club" can those talk about "fina club" and you cannot be in "fina club" unless you are IN "fina club". "fina club" makes the Illuminati/Sith/Cabal look like an open book with everything written in the down. besides Latveria must have an equal vote in "fina club", a country with 60k swimmers vs 60 cannot simply have more sway thats totally not acceptable.

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Rob Copeland — Thu, 20 Oct 2016 05:08:27 GMT

Latveria:confused::confused::confused: And I suppose Victor Von Doom is the head of their swimming federation

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 08:13:04 GMT

And the compelling argument against issuing a position statement is what, exactly?

RE: Doping among masters athletes

thaartz — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 02:06:18 GMT

Re: Masters Swimming Doping: Rob, all valid points on which I would like to expand. The subjects of medically necessary prescriptions for Masters swimmers, some of which are or do contain banned substances AND doping has been a topic of discussion for probably 40 years now. Why USMS maintains such a low profile on this subject is because USMS and its medical committees recognized early on that with a membership age base of 17 to over 100 years old, many, many members would be taking prescribed medications for many, many reasons over short and long durations of their lifetimes, some of which would not and currently do not meet the World doping guidelines. Yes, it was recognized back then, as now, there would some who would resort to fraud to improve their competitive stature and that there would be physicians who would supply prescriptions that enhanced performance when not medically necessary. Now compare the benefits to those who can safely participate in Master Swimming to the costs of testing for banned substances. Rob has provided some estimates and it can be assumed that these costs have nowhere to go but higher and conceivably destroying a 60,000 member program. Is this our goal, I think not. I would add that some years ago FINA, the international governing body for aquatic sports, looked at Masters aquatics and also concluded that drug testing would overwhelm their capacity to manage Masters aquatics in this area. Yes, what goes around, comes around time and time again and I would urge the naysayers to recognize and understand that USMS is not the Olympics and that the recreational and competitive swimming with USMS is guided by what produces the best results for the most members. Ted Haartz, Past President, USMS (1978-1981)

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Sat, 15 Oct 2016 13:21:43 GMT

Gripping, excellent article--and, very sad. The saddest story was Rick Demont, in the 1972 Olympics that won the 400 meter freestyle but lost the medal because he was using an ashama medicine. He also couldn't swim the 1500 freestyle.

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Sat, 15 Oct 2016 06:34:35 GMT

Regarding TUEs... www.nytimes.com/.../how-to-get-away-with-doping.html

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Elaine Krugman — Sat, 15 Oct 2016 03:12:29 GMT

Regarding TUEs... www.nytimes.com/.../how-to-get-away-with-doping.html Gripping, excellent article--and, very sad.

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 15:56:34 GMT

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 15:04:04 GMT

In the absence of a position statement from USMS are we to assume that anything goes? Position stated or otherwise, if no action actually takes place after discovery, then that assumption would be true. I was merely pointing out that, to add "strictly prohibited" in the proposed statement will not mean much if its not really prohibited at all. Hence why I suggested discouraged

RE: Doping among masters athletes

The Fortress — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 11:33:47 GMT

In the absence of a position statement from USMS are we to assume that anything goes? Wouldn't doping constitute unsporting conduct under the rules?

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Allen Stark — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 02:30:26 GMT

Given that USMS cares about the health and safety of its members and is committed to preserving the integrity of the sport of swimming, the use of performance enhancing drugs and supplements as defined by WADA, unless prescribed by a licensed physician, is strictly prohibited. Violations may result in permanent suspension from future competition. Sounds good to me,but as a position statement only, it is like posting speed limits but not ticketing speeders. Given the level of concern about testing, a position statement(without testing) is a good start.

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:17:12 GMT

So we prohibit full body tech suits but discourage performance enhancing drugs?

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 14:43:45 GMT

Given that USMS cares about the health and safety of its members, the use of performance enhancing drugs and supplements as defined by WADA, unless prescribed by a licensed physician for the treatment of a medical condition, is strictly prohibited. I would suggest the word strictly is removed. But shouldn't it more truthfully read "is discouraged" rather than "is strictly prohibited"... given there's no resolve to pursue any violation anyways?

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 06:24:17 GMT

In the absence of a position statement from USMS are we to assume that anything goes?

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 06:20:20 GMT

So we prohibit full body tech suits but discourage performance enhancing drugs? It would appear that is the set of rules currently in place, wouldn't it?

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Rob Copeland — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 01:32:34 GMT

At the 2016 US Aquatics Sports annual convention USA Swimming awarded Travis Tygart with the USA Swimming award. Tygard wasn’t there but Edwin Moses (yes that Edwin Moses 2 time Olympic gold medalist in the 400M hurdles, world record holder, undefeated in 122 consecutive championship races , …) his USADA board chair was there to accept on his behalf. Great acceptance speech! Anyway… While there were some hallway conversations around doping control, there wasn’t much in the way of meaningful action taken by the USMS House of Delegates. So for those who are passionate about this I suggest you contact your LMSC leadership to make your feelings known. And to the suggested …the use of performance enhancing drugs and supplements as defined by WADA, unless prescribed by a licensed physician for the treatment of a medical condition, is strictly prohibited. I’ve got a couple of concerns; First I believe the “for the treatment of a medical condition” is somewhat different than the WADA TUE so I’m not sure we could do this if we sign on with WADA/USDADA. And trying to develop a standalone doping control protocol/agency has its own world of obstacles. Second, the shift from competition only to general membership health and safety is a quantum shift in both the nature and scope of testing. As suggested testing is not a precursor to membership and not related specifically to competition. By my rough estimate this takes the cost of the program from from the hundreds of thousands of dollars to the millions of dollars. I was told that it would cost around $25,000 per sanctioned event to conduct USADA certified doping control. This would not include the necessary administration costs associated with a doping control program. Expanding this from the 10-15 tests conducted per event to 65,000 tests would cost each member $200 or more in annual membership dues. And I’m willing to make the assumption that the cost and mandatory drug testing will adversely impact membership. I’m fully behind the USMS mission to promote health, wellness, fitness and competition for adults through swimming, but I also realize the need to make Masters Swimming economically feasible so we can reach out to more adults.

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 16:48:42 GMT

How about adding, besides health and safety of USMS members, the integrity of USMS competition? I like it.

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Rich B. — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 12:40:41 GMT

I quoted one of the Class I recommendations from the publication, which is quite lengthy and exhaustively researched. The authors reference WADA for the definition of performance enhancing drugs, as you would expect. Try this. Given that USMS cares about the health and safety of its members, the use of performance enhancing drugs and supplements as defined by WADA, unless prescribed by a licensed physician for the treatment of a medical condition, is strictly prohibited. How about adding, besides health and safety of USMS members, the integrity of USMS competition?

RE: Doping among masters athletes

orca1946 — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 06:13:47 GMT

I'm sure big pharma is as good as a good used car salesman in selling you something that you NEED! There is always someone trying to sell us something that will make us thinner, younger and more attractive with any work on our part!

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:46:07 GMT

If your health is important to you, then you will not be using a banned substance without a doctor's prescription.

RE: Doping among masters athletes

Former Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:22:15 GMT

Testosterone levels decline with age. Solvay Pharmaceuticals created the term "Low T" to sell AndroGel. And it worked.

RE: Doping among masters athletes

swim365 — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:54:09 GMT

:rofl: I think everyone has their suspects and while I'd like a clean sport, I doubt we have the resources (financial or people) to police this. This paragraph captures the issue perfectly. Personally, I'm of the mindset of the friend ... ... but the realist in me agrees with Walters... I derive enough satisfaction from training, the act of competition and using my own performances as a yardstick so the fact there are people doping in USMS (or via FINA Masters) doesn't detract from my own satisfaction. If nothing else, given the potential damage the dopers are doing to their bodies longer term, I figure I'll be well-positioned once I hit the 80+ age groups ;) My sentiments exactly, and I hoping to get some top 10 times when I hit my 80s. :)

RE: Doping among masters athletes

jpetyk — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:25:10 GMT

Does "prohibited at all times" mean practice too? If so, does this not directly contradict USMS's mission statement? Like Orca, my health is more important, but regular swimming workouts is helping to achieve better health. I don't HAVE to compete. :cry: It just gives me motivation to show up to swim practice in the morning.