Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Former Member — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 13:21:29 GMT

Thanks, Julia! :groovy:That's a nice compliment, especially since you are a coach and a great swimmer! :agree: I appreciate the feedback and encouragement very much. Cheers! :chug: Eliane you are a good swimmer.

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Elaine Krugman — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 10:08:28 GMT

Eliane you are a good swimmer. Thanks, Cinc! :)

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Swimspire — Fri, 02 Sep 2016 10:48:02 GMT

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Sumorunner — Fri, 02 Sep 2016 07:53:23 GMT

Swimming is NOT like riding a bike! Right. You can't fall of, and even if you did, no road rash. Otherwise, repetition is the key to both.

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 02 Sep 2016 05:54:04 GMT

Hi Elaine! Looks like you're on the way to a winning stroke. You are taking a very precise and deliberate approach to your freestyle, which demonstrates your awareness of what you need to be doing to improve. You've come a long way! Keep up the great work :) Thanks, Julia! :groovy:That's a nice compliment, especially since you are a coach and a great swimmer! :agree: I appreciate the feedback and encouragement very much. Cheers! :chug:

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 02 Sep 2016 05:50:22 GMT

Right. You can't fall of, and even if you did, no road rash. Otherwise, repetition is the key to both. What I meant is there is so much technique to swimming than riding a bike. Sure, you can dive in the pool and remember how to swim, but unless you practice good technique each time you get in the pool, so many bad habits can become ingrained without even realizing it. Repetition is one thing, but repetition of proper technique is an entirely different thing!

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Elaine Krugman — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 10:11:39 GMT

Wow, you've made a lot of progress. You look a lot smoother and it appears from this angle that you're bending your elbow at the right time and not dropping it. The rotation is better too. You're right to catch that your left hand curves up a bit, but that's an easy fix now that you have the harder part down. Great job, Elaine! :bliss:Thanks, flystorms! I just can't believe how difficult it has been to get corrections to STICK! I do daily drills (during warm-up and cool-down), but I have to stay on it with video for feedback, so I can keep on making corrections. Swimming is NOT like riding a bike! :dunno:

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

flystorms — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 06:46:11 GMT

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Elaine Krugman — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 01:38:36 GMT

Is this any better, other than the left hand pointing up (which I see I need to fix!)? I've been working on my rotation, and I hope it has improved. As for the left arm, it is an ongoing frustration! This video (sorry it's not clear; I should have wiped the lens off better!) shows me breathing right (my worst side): www.youtube.com/watch

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 13 May 2016 10:13:22 GMT

You were doing this during your 1,000 free at Nationals. Over reaching on both sides, putting the brakes on with your wrists, over rotating on your dropped side. That is...until you got tired/down to work. Your stroke started cleaning itself right up as you passed 500 yards. One of my coach friends and stopped to chat and I pointed it out, said, "not too often someone's stroke keeps getting better the more tired they are." Then you weren't messing around with the reach, you were digging right in and the over rotation went away. Not perfect but a ton better than at the start. We had figured you used the first half as a built in warm up, as some swimmers do, and your real stroke was coming out as you got warmed up. While all these tips are great, you can do it pretty good when you really get moving. I think you just need to stop getting so long at the front of your stroke (shorten your stroke a bit) while swimming at these more "relaxed" speeds. It won't actually shorten it, it will just FEEL that way to you. Because I bet when you're trying to haul through the last 500 of the 1000 it feels as though your stroke is shorter. That was the 1650, not the 1000. ;) I had done a warm up, but I know I started out a bit nervous as I always do in my first race at Nationals. Once the nerves subside, I start thinking more about my stroke, and go into correction mode until I get the correct (at least to me) feel. Then, I swim. I haven't competed in distance freestyle very often, but I really enjoy it, so I want to improve my stroke technique. Thanks for your feedback, M! I appreciate it very much, because I didn't have any video from the race. Hubby was counting for me, so the camera canned for that race.

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Former Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 11:50:27 GMT

Hey, Silver! :wave: How have you been? I was hoping to meet you at a Nationals one of these years, but it still hasn't happened. I hope you are doing well! All is well. Still splashing around and swimming backwards as always. ...Just waiting for Nationals to come a little closer to home. :) Glad you enjoyed the pointer. A high school coach introduced that concept, and a few of us went under :50 for the 100, which was like the ultimate when we were kids.

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

m2tall2 — Thu, 12 May 2016 07:42:21 GMT

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Elaine Krugman — Wed, 11 May 2016 04:37:41 GMT

www.usms.org/.../articledisplay.php This article was recently posted on USMS front page. This could help you with your breathing and in-turn your elbow. Also Elaine, focus on pushing back on the water to move forward. You look like you are pushing downward before going backward. The downward push stalls you instead of propelling you forward. Good luck, I think you have an over-all nice and smooth stroke. Thanks, Bobinator! I read that article when it was first posted, and it's a good one. This video looks at a similar stroke question: www.goswim.tv/.../1795-advanced-freestyle-swim-lesson-6-correcting-a-dropped-elbow-pull I am not a subscriber, so I was unable to view the video. (When I clicked on the link, it asked me to sign in.) It might help to think about and visualize the shoulder rotation early after your left hand enters, and begins to reach. I believe if you visualize rotating that left shoulder for the hand to slide down the VW hood as Pat said (or over a big ball - see below) it will help, making sure as bobinator said you are rotating the shoulder to push water backwards and not down. Your shoulder is now flattening and maybe even rotating a little the other way (like backstroke) during the reach and that makes the elbow drop. As someone suggested it seems to be related to the non-breathing side, so switching breathing sides every other lap for awhile might help too. The shoulder rotation (actual not visual) with the catch will help engage the bigger back muscles (lats) as your arm starts to abduct from the catch and the pull begins. You can practice this dryland lying over one of those big balls in the gym (I saw a video a few years back on YouTube of a Tennessee women's swimmer and their coach doing this over a big ball, but I haven't found it since). You kind of roll out on the ball letting your hand follow the ball down as you roll it forward. Good luck with it Elaine - hope it helps Thanks, Jersey! So far I have a VW Bug and a ball to visualize. Thanks for the tip! We have those balls in our community gym, so I'll try that after foam rolling, and before I hit the pool deck. Elaine... Two things. Reach and beer barrel. 1.) Your reach is not fully extended. The beginning of your catch should almost feel as if you were stretching out towards the ceiling. 2.) You will never drop your elbow if you imagined wrapping it around an imaginary beer barrel. The arm will stay high during the entire catch with a focus on keeping a high elbow. Reach out there, latch onto the barrel, and throw it behind you! :) The elbow wants to stay up high, and as close to the side of your head, for as long as you can while it transitions into the deeper part of the stroke. Hey, Silver! :wave: How have you been? I was hoping to meet you at a Nationals one of these years, but it still hasn't happened. I hope you are doing well! Aha! I now have a VW Bug, a Ball, and a Beer Barrel. That's a heck of a collection of B's! Sorry, Pat and Jersey, but I think the beer barrel wins. :chug: Although I will visualize the beer barrel and try to push back rather than down, I will try the ball in the gym to get the right feel. Thanks to all of you, (you, too, Orca!) for giving me a lot of great tips to work on. The hardest thing I have had to grapple with in swimming is thinking I am doing the right thing, but seeing that I'm actually NOT doing it right at all when I watch my swims on video. :dunno: Thankfully, I have a very patient hubby who has become quite adept at shooting videos of my stroke. :smooch:

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Former Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 13:04:29 GMT

Elaine... Two things. Reach and beer barrel. 1.) Your reach is not fully extended. The beginning of your catch should almost feel as if you were stretching out towards the ceiling. 2.) You will never drop your elbow if you imagined wrapping it around an imaginary beer barrel. The arm will stay high during the entire catch with a focus on keeping a high elbow. Reach out there, latch onto the barrel, and throw it behind you! :) The elbow wants to stay up high, and as close to the side of your head, for as long as you can while it transitions into the deeper part of the stroke.

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Bobinator — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:26:01 GMT

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Sojerz — Tue, 10 May 2016 04:06:01 GMT

It might help to think about and visualize the shoulder rotation early after your left hand enters, and begins to reach. I believe if you visualize rotating that left shoulder for the hand to slide down the VW hood as Pat said (or over a big ball - see below) it will help, making sure as bobinator said you are rotating the shoulder to push water backwards and not down. Your shoulder is now flattening and maybe even rotating a little the other way (like backstroke) during the reach and that makes the elbow drop. As someone suggested it seems to be related to the non-breathing side, so switching breathing sides every other lap for awhile might help too. The shoulder rotation (actual not visual) with the catch will help engage the bigger back muscles (lats) as your arm starts to abduct from the catch and the pull begins. You can practice this dryland lying over one of those big balls in the gym (I saw a video a few years back on YouTube of a Tennessee women's swimmer and their coach doing this over a big ball, but I haven't found it since). You kind of roll out on the ball letting your hand follow the ball down as you roll it forward. Good luck with it Elaine - hope it helps

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

james lucas — Tue, 10 May 2016 02:29:14 GMT

This video looks at a similar stroke question: www.goswim.tv/.../1795-advanced-freestyle-swim-lesson-6-correcting-a-dropped-elbow-pull

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Elaine Krugman — Mon, 09 May 2016 09:21:08 GMT

In keeping with the VW theme from Coach Mark's most excellent looking van, I'd offer this way to think about your entry, courtesy of some work I did with Terry Laughlin of Total Immersion a few years back: as your hand enters the water, think about your hand sliding down the hood and over the grill of a car (but think more Beetle\Bug than campervan as you imagine this) That thought might help you get your hand higher than your elbow. The video I'd next like to see is your over-water recovery as I'd like to see if you're entering at too low an angle to 'cause' your elbow to drop underwater. On the positive side, I think the kick-hip-rotation is great. Ok, a Bug it is! I like that!:anim_coffee: I don't have a current top view of my freestyle; however, I'm sure I can recruit my personal videographer / swim meet sherpa / awesome hubby to shoot one. :D It's good to know my hip rotation and kick is "great," because I've been working on it since Swimspire offered it as a way to improve my freestyle. WooHOO, something stuck in my training! Edit: I do have this video from a meet in April. Fast-forward to the anchor leg of this relay for some really tired, slow freestyle. This was the last race of a two-day meet where I swam a killer event line-up of 1650, 500, 400 IM, 200 fly, 200 ***, 200 back, 100 fly, 100 ***, 50 ***, and 50 fly: www.youtube.com/watch Jzj5giLombkZ1_y115

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Patrick W. Brundage — Mon, 09 May 2016 08:22:45 GMT

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

orca1946 — Sun, 08 May 2016 11:45:50 GMT

Agree with and and maybe the head is raised a bit high causing you to "lean" on that left hand longer.

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Elaine Krugman — Sun, 08 May 2016 11:26:08 GMT

I would say that rather than dropping your elbow, you are raising your hand too high after entry. If you compare the other hand you will notice that it extends straight forwards rather and reaching up towards the surface. You can try just extending your left hand/arm straight forwards or slightly downwards to over compensate. You really want your hand to be about 8-10 inches below the water (as you reach forwards). Hope this helps! Elaine: May I suggest that rather than "dropping your elbow," you may actually be lifting your hand. I took a couple of screen shots from your video (left and right sides), and what I see is that the relative position of your upper arm is the same, but the relative position of your hand is significantly different. Left Arm: 10426 Right Arm: 10427 Concentrate on your hand position on your left side; really extend and reach out toward the end of the pool like you're doing on your right side. In my opinion, if you're doing it right, you'll feel a bit of a stretch in the upper side of your forearm. Sometimes, when I am working on things like this, I might put a small paddle on the ONE hand in focus. It's like a reminder. This is a pretty common issue, and I believe it's caused by a balance compensation when the swimmer turns to breathe, so you may find that this impacts your breathing, but it's so slight of a change, it may be very easy for you to fix. Well, Ganache and Swim Dogs, it looks like you are both in agreement with what I am doing wrong. :agree: I never thought of it this way, because I was so focused on the elbow. We are going back to the pool today with the camera, so I will see what I can do to fix this problem. I'm thinking my freestyle flaw will be easier to fix than the problem I'm having with butterfly! Thanks to both of you for taking the time to help me out. I appreciate it very much! :D P.S. I love your Swim Dogs name and logo! :applaud: This is my license plate: 10428

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

Elaine Krugman — Sun, 08 May 2016 10:20:29 GMT

Not sure if you will be able to see this in the photo, but my license place is SWMDOG...Only 6 letters are allowed on custom plates in Montana. Thought of H2ODOG, but that was too complicated. 10430 LOVE IT!!! :banana: :cheerleader: :applaud:

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

SwimDogs — Sun, 08 May 2016 09:33:06 GMT

Hey, Jamie (ganache)! It's Mark Johnston (formerly in Denver). It looks like you and I are on the same page here, literally and figuratively. That's always nice to see that two fellow coaches agree on something. We must have been writing our posts at the same time. Hope all is well with you!

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

SwimDogs — Sun, 08 May 2016 09:27:32 GMT

Elaine: May I suggest that rather than "dropping your elbow," you may actually be lifting your hand. I took a couple of screen shots from your video (left and right sides), and what I see is that the relative position of your upper arm is the same, but the relative position of your hand is significantly different. Left Arm: 10426 Right Arm: 10427 Concentrate on your hand position on your left side; really extend and reach out toward the end of the pool like you're doing on your right side. In my opinion, if you're doing it right, you'll feel a bit of a stretch in the upper side of your forearm. Sometimes, when I am working on things like this, I might put a small paddle on the ONE hand in focus. It's like a reminder. This is a pretty common issue, and I believe it's caused by a balance compensation when the swimmer turns to breathe, so you may find that this impacts your breathing, but it's so slight of a change, it may be very easy for you to fix.

RE: Freestyle help needed: One dropped elbow

ganache — Sun, 08 May 2016 09:21:30 GMT