Conflict with new coach

RE: Conflict with new coach

Gary P — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:56:50 GMT

...many of our intermediate/beginners are complaining that they are not getting recognition for their efforts..... What's brought this to a head is that this morning, after workout, my wife sent me a text expressing how disgusted she was with our coach. She didn't go into specifics, but she ended with the statement "I'm done!". So heck, now I'm stuck in the middle. What do I do? Do I try to talk to the coach? Do I stay out of it? Help! There's got to be a lot more going on here than just a lack of praise. That meeting sounds as pleasant as wearing a sand paper thong dipped in battery acid. God help that poor coach. I hope you guys have a "plan B" because, despite your best intentions, it's going to be very hard for the coach not feel defensive in that situation. I'd put the chances at better than 50/50 that the end result of that meeting will be a resignation.

RE: Conflict with new coach

aquageek — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:06:22 GMT

RE: Conflict with new coach

trident58 — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:10:21 GMT

I'm surprised no one picked up on this... perhaps the slow people on the team are humiliating the newer even slower swimmer? And given that "the issue" seems to be with a sub-group of swimmers, it sounds to me like we have a few bad apples in the water stirring up negativity and bringing everyone down. Sounds like less of a coach issue than it is a teammate issue. Changing coaches is always a tough situation. In many cases, you have a good coach and can't imagine what you'd do without them. They leave, a new guy comes in and after a year or so, you can't imagine what you'd do with out them. Yes, there are a few bad apples on deck too. If I were Trident, I'd try to get a trialogue started between coach and swimmers and club admin to set expectations (of all three). That's exactly what we're doing. We have a meeting set up between the coach, the board, and a few at-large members to sort things out. The emphasis is going to be on "constructive criticism". No subjective/personal criticisms. We're just looking at what it is going to take to move the team forward.

RE: Conflict with new coach

Swimspire — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:59:42 GMT

If I were Trident, I'd try to get a trialogue started between coach and swimmers and club admin to set expectations (of all three). Agreed. Many opinions have been expressed on this thread - some accusatory towards the OP (and swimmers who are dissatisfied with their coaches), some supportive. The bottom line is that all members of the club (from swimmers to coaches to board members) need to have their opinions heard in order to strike a good balance. Trident seems to have started that dialogue and hopefully the team will emerge fully united!

RE: Conflict with new coach

Muppet — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:44:18 GMT

Imagine you are a 40-or 50 something who has never swam more than splashing in a pool to cool off. You decide to try something different, and you join a master's team to 1) learn to swim properly, and 2) get in shape. So you show up, get in the slow lane, and are promptly humiliated by the slowest people on the team. I'm surprised no one picked up on this... perhaps the slow people on the team are humiliating the newer even slower swimmer? And given that "the issue" seems to be with a sub-group of swimmers, it sounds to me like we have a few bad apples in the water stirring up negativity and bringing everyone down. Sounds like less of a coach issue than it is a teammate issue. Changing coaches is always a tough situation. In many cases, you have a good coach and can't imagine what you'd do without them. They leave, a new guy comes in and after a year or so, you can't imagine what you'd do with out them. Yes, there are a few bad apples on deck too. If I were Trident, I'd try to get a trialogue started between coach and swimmers and club admin to set expectations (of all three).

RE: Conflict with new coach

The Fortress — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:01:39 GMT

My experience on a team would never be the same as yours. You're a strong, highly experience swimmer. Any coach would love to have you on the team. Perhaps not, but you should get the same amount of attention and feedback as the competitive swimmers. No coach would want to coach me! After having to train solo for 99% of my career, I've developed my own style of training which is nothing like most masters workouts. Even when I drop in on a team like I did last week, I tend to modify the workouts (without disturbing my lane mates of course). Like Celestial, I'm internally driven so it's hard for me to imagine someone choosing to come to a workout and then whining about "working for nothing." Geek, alas there are no drop dead sprinters on my team. But even my triathletes don't complain when I drop a classic HIT workout on them.

RE: Conflict with new coach

Former Member — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 08:59:26 GMT

Wow. Who knew this would end up such a heated topic? If you think this is heated, keep away from a UK swim forum I’m on. Anyway, I agree with aquageek, for what it’s worth.

RE: Conflict with new coach

aquageek — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 08:51:52 GMT

Wow, Aquageek, I'm so humbled by your reply. :D People like you are the reason we should all join a Masters team. There are many reasons to join a Masters team. Most of my closest friends are people I've met through Masters. There has been an alarming trend on this forum lately of whining about coaching. We are adults, not kids. I've found that the Masters who are most successful, at all levels, are those who make the best of every workout, regardless of whether it is in their wheelhouse or not. Too many Masters get stuck in a rut, same stroke, same workout, same lanemates, etc. Get out, way way out, of your comfort zone. You don't like your coach? Well, make something good of that, but don't come on this forum and complain endlessly. The absolute best workouts I do are those that I have no desire to ever do in a race. For instance, I steal Fort's workouts all the time. You throw one of those in per week and good things happen. Same if you are a sprinter and do a distance workout here and there. Swimming is way too fun for all the angst and anxiety I've seen lately.

RE: Conflict with new coach

Former Member — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 08:19:19 GMT

Am I the only one who is confused by this thread? Now personally, I don't have any major problems with this coach...Admittedly, we have had some issues with him about showing up for workouts a few minutes late...The big conflict seems to be from the beginning/intermediate swimmers and the triathletes...many of our intermediate/beginners are complaining that they are not getting recognition for their efforts. Many members, myself included, are pretty peeved about the tardiness and no-shows. That's the only thing we're discussing.

RE: Conflict with new coach

DeniseMW — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 08:13:05 GMT

Wow, Aquageek, I'm so humbled by your reply. :D People like you are the reason we should all join a Masters team. Fortress, I jokingly refer to myself as an anchor. I'm not that slow. My experience on a team would never be the same as yours. You're a strong, highly experience swimmer. Any coach would love to have you on the team. Sometimes competitive can spill over into elitist. I guess I don't read what you do into Julia's comments. There's diversity of opinion on the threads and hers is just one among many.

RE: Conflict with new coach

Rob Copeland — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 07:13:16 GMT

Well, it looks to me like this thread has run its course.Good point.

RE: Conflict with new coach

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 05:43:55 GMT

You know, I wasn't going to say anything because I'm sure the flames will come raining down - but the only thing that really bothered me about this thread was the juvenile mud-slinging and borderline bullying. Who wants to post in such a hostile environment? Having been a victim of juvenile bullying on these forums (from the same person(s) who disliked my favorite font) :shakeshead:, I hear you. All I can say to all posters on these forums is don't let the bad apples spoil it for you, and run you off. Most of the posters are kind, helpful, and supportive. I have even received GREAT stroke technique feedback when requested and have made some really nice friends who I look forward to seeing at Nationals and other meets. Gobears, you won't be alone; I'm sure I will hear plenty from this post, too! :bighug:

RE: Conflict with new coach

gobears — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 05:15:50 GMT

RE: Conflict with new coach

gobears — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 05:01:00 GMT

Well, it looks to me like this thread has run its course. I do appreciate the suggestions (constructive ones, that is), but I think this has degenerated into a bit too much off-topic sniping. One of the problems with the Internet, I guess. Too easy to misconstrue meanings, and too hard to get the whole story across. No hard feelings, but I'm done here. I don't blame you.

RE: Conflict with new coach

trident58 — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 04:43:46 GMT

RE: Conflict with new coach

Gary P — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 04:29:31 GMT

Am I the only one who is confused by this thread? No, the story hasn't seemed to add up from the very beginning.

RE: Conflict with new coach

aquageek — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 03:42:45 GMT

Begging your pardon, Aquageek, but this is not, as you describe, and "ambush". The coach has been approached before about the attendance/tardy issues, and he was the one that suggested the meeting to iron out the differences. Also, I fail to see how raising issues about tardiness and absenteeism is "unprofessional" and "childish", especially when it concerns someone who is being paid to render a service. Did I miss something? Finally, go back and read my OP. I'm not here to complain, but to ask for suggestions. If you wanted suggestions, don't complain when you get them. If you want suggestions but have decided to mob ambush and fire him, why post on this forum? Since you aren't open to suggestions and have your plan made, here is what I would do as a Masters swimmer. I would meet with him privately and express my concerns off the deck. I would meet with his supervisor and him and express my concerns off the deck. That's what adults do. Here is what I would expect as a Masters coach. I would expect my supervisor to put me on a performance plan if the gossipy allegations are true. If I violate my private and confidential performance plan, I would expect to be relieved of my duties as a coach in a professional manner. I do not understand why members are involved in hiring/firing decisions at this club nor why club business is being aired on an internet forum. It's not like it's a big mystery which club you are speaking about.

RE: Conflict with new coach

trident58 — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 03:27:36 GMT

Why are you on the internet complaining about this? Why does it take at larger members, masters members, and board members to fire a coach? What in the name of all that is chlorinated is wrong with this club? Why are personnel matters being discussed on the web and with the general membership? This is an ambush. For whatever faults this coach has, he/she sure doesn't deserve this unprofessional and childish behavior. Begging your pardon, Aquageek, but this is not, as you describe, and "ambush". The coach has been approached before about the attendance/tardy issues, and he was the one that suggested the meeting to iron out the differences. Also, I fail to see how raising issues about tardiness and absenteeism is "unprofessional" and "childish", especially when it concerns someone who is being paid to render a service. Did I miss something? Finally, go back and read my OP. I'm not here to complain, but to ask for suggestions.

RE: Conflict with new coach

aquageek — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 03:20:33 GMT

Very difficult decision to make and - as you will be doing - in this case it is important to involve the entire team, not merely one messenger. Fully support you and your team, whatever decision you may come to. Best of luck. Do you have any personnel experience at any company? That is absurd. Personnel matters aren't a group discussion. They are between the employee and his superior(s), not an angry mob, and should be done confidentially and professionally. No HR manager on the entire planet would proceed in the way you have stated. And, how do you know who to support only hearing one side of the story, and a very suspect side at that? How would you like to coach this group of angry and gossipy people who take to the ethers to gripe versus act like adults and do it in person?

RE: Conflict with new coach

Swimspire — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 03:20:17 GMT

Not a resignation. More like a firing. Many members, myself included, are pretty peeved about the tardiness and no-shows. That's the only thing we're discussing. When you're paying upwards of $70/month, I don't think that's asking too much. Very difficult decision to make and - as you will be doing - in this case it is important to involve the entire team, not merely one messenger. Fully support you and your team, whatever decision you may come to. Best of luck.

RE: Conflict with new coach

aquageek — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 03:18:25 GMT

Not a resignation. More like a firing. Many members, myself included, are pretty peeved about the tardiness and no-shows. That's the only thing we're discussing. When you're paying upwards of $70/month, I don't think that's asking too much. Why are you on the internet complaining about this? Why does it take at larger members, masters members, and board members to fire a coach? What in the name of all that is chlorinated is wrong with this club? Why are personnel matters being discussed on the web and with the general membership? This is an ambush. For whatever faults this coach has, he/she sure doesn't deserve this unprofessional and childish behavior.

RE: Conflict with new coach

Gary P — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 02:59:13 GMT

Not a resignation. More like a firing. Many members, myself included, are pretty peeved about the tardiness and no-shows. That's the only thing we're discussing. When you're paying upwards of $70/month, I don't think that's asking too much. If it's just attendance issues that are a problem, I don't see the need for a huge conference. One person, probably a leader from the board, would be sufficient to deliver the message that his attendance habits aren't acceptable, what the attendance expectations are going forward, and what the consequences of failing to meet those expectations will be. Having the entire board and an "ad-hock" committee of team members all there to deliver that simple message borders on hostile, really.

RE: Conflict with new coach

trident58 — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 02:44:02 GMT

There's got to be a lot more going on here than just a lack of praise. I hope you guys have a "plan B" because, despite your best intentions, it's going to be very hard for the coach not feel defensive in that situation. I'd put the chances at better than 50/50 that the end result of that meeting will be a resignation. Not a resignation. More like a firing. Many members, myself included, are pretty peeved about the tardiness and no-shows. That's the only thing we're discussing. When you're paying upwards of $70/month, I don't think that's asking too much.

RE: Conflict with new coach

Swimspire — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 02:40:20 GMT

I don't quite understand the hostility toward Julia. I've never read her posts as trying to promote a brand. So what is she's a coach for hire? If you're good at something, there's nothing wrong with making a living at it. Good coaches are hard to find. And the Masters group swim isn't the right environment for everyone. She charges what she charges. Nobody's forced to buy her product. Just sayin'. Denise, thank you for your support!

RE: Conflict with new coach

Rob Copeland — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 02:25:10 GMT

That's exactly what we're doing. We have a meeting set up between the coach, the board, and a few at-large members to sort things out. The emphasis is going to be on "constructive criticism". No subjective/personal criticisms. We're just looking at what it is going to take to move the team forward.If I may be permitted to provide some constructive criticism to your approach… First off “constructive criticism” is a myth, it’s just criticism. Even objective criticism is criticism. Second, unless the criticism is based on documented or well understood performance goals for the coach, you will be attacking the coach for things he had not been told he is accountable for. Instead of meeting with the coach for constructive criticism, I suggest meeting with the coach to set and document specific and measurable and mutually agreed upon coaching expectations. If the board and the coach can’t come to terms on these goals then you need to find a coach who will. To truly move the team forward, you need a roadmap for success not just a list of potholes that have been noticed. For example, if tardiness is a concern then set the expectation that the coach be on deck and ready to go 5 minutes before practice start time. Then be prepared to fire the coach, dock pay or whatever if he exceeds the number of excused tardy.