Training Long Term

RE: Training Long Term

Swimosaur — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:58:47 GMT

In short, embrace the joys of semi-fitness, moderation and "good enough" times :bolt: Epicurus-level wisdom!

RE: Training Long Term

knelson — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 06:16:49 GMT

In short, embrace the joys of semi-fitness, moderation and "good enough" times :bolt: Good point. It would be a shame to reach all my goals. What the heck would I do then? :)

RE: Training Long Term

Patrick W. Brundage — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 06:01:04 GMT

One more tip to long term happiness and continuity: don't ever get in really good shape. If you just trundle along at moderately good shape, taking the inevitable break (forced or choice) won't end up having a huge impact on your performance ;) I made the mistake of really focusing in late 2011/early 2012 and was really consistent with my training ... now it's like climbing Everest or swimming the Channel to try to get back to that level of fitness and speed. In short, embrace the joys of semi-fitness, moderation and "good enough" times :bolt:

RE: Training Long Term

Elaine Krugman — Sat, 11 Jul 2015 07:33:09 GMT

I wish I had this problem! I'm about 60% of the way there. With that disclaimer, I have some pwb-like longer range goals. As a kid, the longest range goal you get is "kill the focus event(s) at the taper meet at the end of the season". Maybe "make trials cuts". As masters, we have the luxury of thinking bigger. I want to swim every event in competition. Even the 50 ***, eww. The specific goal is, "swim every event at least once in each course in each age group". So, at the end of the age group, I should have at least one stupid time in the 50 *** in SCY, LCM, and SCM. A supersized checkoff challenge. Simpler and shorter-range: "Swim at least one meet in each of SCY, LCM, SCM, and OW every year". This weekend I'm swimming a 5K OW near Atlanta. That will be it for OW this year, but I'm doing it. More complex and longer-range: "Swim in a FINA Masters World Championships" (done); "Swim the Borboleta" (a 1650 butterfly event offered every spring by the Riconada Masters); "Swim a 1500 LCM backstroke in Australia" (and as many of those ridiculously long events as possible); "Go snorkeling in the Great Blue Hole in Belize"; and "Swim in a finswimming meet". That may require another trip to Europe. Oh, too bad. You'll notice that "swim the English Channel", "swim an ice mile", and "swim an OW 25K" does not appear on any of my lists. That's very much on purpose! I don't want to do any of those crazy things! That's my 2 cents. Not only did Swimosaur swim the 5K and win a silver medal, he also swam the 1K and won GOLD. CONGRATULATIONS, Swimosaur! :applaud: (I happily won gold in the 3K and silver in the 1K.:D)

RE: Training Long Term

knelson — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 12:07:15 GMT

I appreciate all the feedback. Lots of good ideas here!

RE: Training Long Term

ganache — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 01:47:52 GMT

I have been doing Masters for many years and the reasons or why I have stayed engaged have changed over the years. Originally it was just to stay in good physical condition. Eventually racing, gave way to having fun and working out with friends. After moving for a job and finding a very little Masters team where I moved to, I started coaching to help build up the team so I could swim on a larger team. This actually kept me from burning out and engaged during my ups and downs (injuries, surgeries, kids activity time hogs, etc.) By seeing improvement in people I was coaching it seemed to take some of the pressure off of me to perform as well in competitions. I still race and enjoy it. The other thing that has kept me swimming is all the changes they keep making to all of the strokes. It is fun to try to stay up with the new techniques since I swim breaststroke. Hope this helps!

RE: Training Long Term

Muppet — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 11:47:08 GMT

Hey Kirk! I was starting to get bored with the swimming routine about 10 years ago and decided to add ice hockey as cross-training. Its a totally different experience and its been a fun 10 years on the ice making new friends and enemies every year. Thankfully, I'm still improving in both forms of water (frozen and liquid), and have started skipping swimming more often when a hockey/swim conflict arrives. The last several years I've gotten bored of training for the 400/500 free (and other distance free) and been training mostly for the 100 fly and 1/200 IMs. Setting the same goal (4:59.99 500 free) and failing every year was wearing on me. Additionally, a lot of our workouts in the last 4 years or so have not had a lot of longer swims in practice, instead focusing on shorter, pace-oriented stuff. More conducive to something like the a 200 IM. Like you, I've also seen a decline in annual mileage - down from ~450 to about 400. And the last ~18mo, we've been taking extended post-season breaks for the first time. However, in that time, I've managed to build a respectable breaststroke and am still being challenged by the blue muppet to try to stay with her in the backstroke. There are still a few events that are consistent with ~2005 muppet, but this shift/branching out continues to yield best times all over the board (except in the distance free, which hasn't been swum in a while). I've not questioned the breaks, lower volume, change in distance, skipping practice - all due to the results. That's been MY experience. As for advice, it seems the common theme here is a new goal in the water. When I met the blue muppet, all she did was 100/200 free and back. It took a few years of my nudging, but she finally branched out to the 50s of those, and then after a few more years of more intense nagging, she's developed a killer 1/200 IM. All this while continuing to kick butt in backstroke (best times in 100/200 this spring) and while she doesn't do much individual event free, she did have the fastest free split of anyone on our team in the 200 IM at nationals. Her: 29.12 1:04.27(35.15) 1:45.34(41.07) 2:16.07(30.73) Me: 27.22 1:00.43(33.21) 1:37.21(36.78) 2:09.14(31.93) oops - hey it was the last event, i was tired!

RE: Training Long Term

ourswimmer — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 12:44:20 GMT

Many of you have suggested training variations, but what I'm really looking for is whether varying the amount of time and/or concentration spent on swimming has worked well for you. Yes, it's worked well. Also, it's life. I swam in my first Masters meet 20 years ago, when I was 27. At the time, I had a nothing job, which meant that I had plenty of time for sports but not plenty of money. I ran and swam, and did some hiking, and tried pretty unsuccessfully to learn to cross-country ski (back when we had snow in the winter in California). A few years later I went back to school to get a professional degree. I had access to a gym, and I had a lot of discretionary time, and my swim teammates were a delightful group of people totally unconnected with school. So I set and achieved some more serious swimming goals. My swimming focus then was mostly on open water, because it was new to me as an adult but turned out to be a good fit. When I finished school in 2000 I did a post-graduate fellowship in a city that had a very strong running community. I used that opportunity to improve my running, and I set and achieved some running goals while keeping up swimming as a sideline. I was really glad I had kept up swimming when I injured a knee and had to stop running. Then I started working in earnest in 2001 and I didn't really have time for anything else hard. Plus, in 2004 I developed a pretty serious neck problem, relating to a congenital spinal deformity. I had to stop swimming entirely for a while because I could not turn my head to either side. And even when I could start swimming again, I had no mental energy for goal-setting or competition. I thought for a while that I would never race any more. But eventually my neck got strong enough that I could swim well, and I began to feel enough mastery of my job that I started itching for some new challenges. I re-focused on swimming and swam faster in my early 40s than I had in my late 20s. I swam my first 10K a few years ago, too. For five or six years, I had all kinds of ambition and I felt really strong. Now I'm in a lull. My work took over my life and I had to dial everything else way back. Swim practice became more like going for a nice walk than like working out. I'm trying to re-balance, although I'm also wondering whether I might be able to address my leg problems so that I can resume running. If you like any other sports, do those for a while. Learn a new sport. Or just dial your physical activity back to maintenance mode and focus on something else entirely for recreation. Your motivation for everything will ebb and flow.

RE: Training Long Term

Swimosaur — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 12:12:23 GMT

I've been swimming masters now for well over a decade ... how do YOU train long term? I wish I had this problem! I'm about 60% of the way there. With that disclaimer, I have some pwb-like longer range goals. As a kid, the longest range goal you get is "kill the focus event(s) at the taper meet at the end of the season". Maybe "make trials cuts". As masters, we have the luxury of thinking bigger. I want to swim every event in competition. Even the 50 ***, eww. The specific goal is, "swim every event at least once in each course in each age group". So, at the end of the age group, I should have at least one stupid time in the 50 *** in SCY, LCM, and SCM. A supersized checkoff challenge. Simpler and shorter-range: "Swim at least one meet in each of SCY, LCM, SCM, and OW every year". This weekend I'm swimming a 5K OW near Atlanta. That will be it for OW this year, but I'm doing it. More complex and longer-range: "Swim in a FINA Masters World Championships" (done); "Swim the Borboleta" (a 1650 butterfly event offered every spring by the Riconada Masters); "Swim a 1500 LCM backstroke in Australia" (and as many of those ridiculously long events as possible); "Go snorkeling in the Great Blue Hole in Belize"; and "Swim in a finswimming meet". That may require another trip to Europe. Oh, too bad. You'll notice that "swim the English Channel", "swim an ice mile", and "swim an OW 25K" does not appear on any of my lists. That's very much on purpose! I don't want to do any of those crazy things! That's my 2 cents.

RE: Training Long Term

Swimspire — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:54:44 GMT

The problem with taking breaks from swimming altogether is that it is easier to get out of swimming shape and harder to get back into it after some time away. I know you said you were more interested in varying the amount of time spent in the pool as opposed to hearing about training variations, but maybe your break needs to be in the form of different goals for swimming, like what Swimosaur was describing. If your goal has been to get in the mileage in the past, maybe your new focus can be on technique work and increasing efficiency. Given what you've described and the fact that you've had a previous shoulder injury, learning new drills and techniques specific to your needs can definitely help stave off future injuries and give some variety which will in turn (hopefully) renew your motivation to train. There are also other ways to take a break from your usual swim pattern without actually staying away from the water. You can focus on open water (if you don't already), or you can even try something like a swimming holiday. SwimTrek does great trips like this. You've always given such consistently great advice on this forum - hopefully all of the great advice you're receiving on this thread will be helpful in getting your motivation back!

RE: Training Long Term

Former Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 06:29:13 GMT

- change your mindset, stop beeing result-orientated. - get a new spirit and become a progress-swimmer: every moment in your life is a chance to grow up in a spiritually way. - The spirtually way is the only way to become a real human. Else your a clone of your society and environment. - Every workout is a step in the direction to achieve your full potential of body, mind and soul. - you have to forget about your past and focus on the moment (See the book Eckhart Tolle: the power of present). - Where you are now, is the result of your progress in the past but you can`t change it now. You have to look forward. - Forget about your goals also. Goals are brain-orientated and are always bad for your soul-freedom. Let it go. - Your only goal is to become who you are! you have to change your point of view of the whole society ********, who is leading your in the wrong direction. - learn about the way to "let-it-go". Let-it-go is the most difficult part of the spirtually way... - The power to change somethings in your life has always the most drag and resistance.

RE: Training Long Term

sunruh — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 06:22:44 GMT

Essentially "taking a break" from swimming and doing something else for a while. If you've done that has it made you come back more motivated or did it just make it even harder to get back in the pool? yes i have done that twice. June 2011 - shoulder surgery 2 anchors for a SLAP tear - kinda had to take a break and sit on the couch for a while and eat ice cream. and May 2013 - shoulder surgery AFRIGGENGIN - bicep tenodesis - more sitting less doing and lots of ice cream got the fattest i have ever been. urrrppp! i would like to HIGHLY suggest NOT taking this approach. it hellasucks

RE: Training Long Term

DeniseMW — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 05:42:53 GMT

Thanks, Elaine: I have not scheduled the surgery yet, but it looks like sometime in August. I'm not looking forward to it, but I am looking forward to not being in constant discomfort. Thank you for the encouragement.

RE: Training Long Term

Elaine Krugman — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 05:30:20 GMT

I'd like to know how to maintain motivation when you're in an enforced layoff. I'm having surgery on my shoulder and the doc said it will be from 3-6 months before I can swim. I can water walk (maybe I'll join the shower cap brigade, LOL), deep water jog in a couple of months, but no freestyle or anything that involves using my shoulder until it's well healed. I'm trying to get as much in as I can until then. But I can't even imagine what it's going to be like to get back into the pool after such a long layoff. I'm back swimming after just a couple of months and I'm nowhere near even doing a mile like I was when the shoulder issue started. :badday: Ohhh NOOO! I'm sorry to hear that, Denise. :bighug: I can relate only TOO well, as you know, since I had hip surgery this past December. I can make a suggestion based on recent experience. Set a post-surgery goal to look forward to achieving. Although I had to give up on the idea of going to the National Senior Games (three of my qualified events were breaststroke, and I was only recently able to start breaststroke kicking), I knew I could work towards competing at one of my favorite events: Georgia State Games Open Water Swim (3K & 1K races). Having a goal kept me motivated and gave me something specific to work for in physical therapy. For you, it may be swimming a mile. As soon as you have clearance, DO get back in the water to walk, jog, play, whatever. Anything you do to stay fit will help make the transition back to swimming easier. When is your surgery? Good luck! :agree:

RE: Training Long Term

DeniseMW — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 03:23:01 GMT

RE: Training Long Term

Elaine Krugman — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 02:56:10 GMT

This weekend I'm swimming a 5K OW near Atlanta. That will be it for OW this year, but I'm doing it. Cool! I'll see you there! I have swum the 3K & 1K over the past few years, so I'll be there swimming it once again. Unfortunately, the weather conditions will NOT be ideal: hot weather and hot water. :whiteflag: Sorry for the :hijack:, folks!

RE: Training Long Term

Former Member — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 11:46:17 GMT

I like to vary my training and mix it up with gym, but still sometimes I'm really not that into it and just try to keep ticking over. After a while, I'll get my 'mojo' back and I get back on it. I think you have to be able to give yourself a break.

RE: Training Long Term

flystorms — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 11:23:25 GMT

Love this discussion. It's tough going through the burnout times and getting back into it. ONe thing that has helped me lately is getting to the gym and doing some rowing. Change it up between speed and distance on different days. It's fun and it doesn't take long to get pooped out, but it does help work many of the same muscles as swimming does.

RE: Training Long Term

waves101 — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 08:42:48 GMT

I hear you, Kirk. Its a constant struggle. I, too, have been swimming Masters since 1999 and keeping the drive and desire is a challenge. Luckily I have a great group of swimming friends who are waiting for me at the pool. Just knowing this helps me get out of bed at 5:15am in temps as low as -24 this winter (I know you lived in Michigan too) to drive to a pool and jump in. Sometimes we like the crazy part of it. I don't swim near the mileage that you do but one year I did make the MAD club in Go the Distance. After that I said to myself, who cares about the mileage, I'd rather be swimming for decades. What I learned is sometimes you do need a break (either in routine or away from swimming). Usually I schedule my away time around other activities I'm passionate about. But, always in the back of my head, I know its harder and harder to get back in shape as we age. This summer I've really enjoyed going to a new pool in a neighboring city so I can swim outside and LCM. I also try to mix in some sprinting or USRPT sets as I do believe we need to train the body to swim fast. It's the little things that make the long haul bearable. I'm also looking forward to Nats as I usually don't swim LCM. So I guess my best long term advice is find the little things that make it exciting for you and run with those. They will continuously change as we age and learn but the big picture will never really change. And that is... we all want to be swimming when we're in our (enter appropriate ages here).

RE: Training Long Term

Celestial — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 08:12:45 GMT

I think we all go through periods where our priorities change. I've recently had a rather long period of time with so-so effort - what helped me more than anything, was going to a meet and seeing how slow I had gotten! I had been going to workouts diligently, but for some reason, I just couldn't muster up the emotional energy to care about whether or not I made such and such interval, or whether I swam a certain amount of distance. I had some Saturdays I would go to the pool and get in about 1500, and then I'd just leave, disgusted with myself, but totally unmotivated to keep going just for the sake of getting in yardage. I'm very fortunate to have found a few people fairly close to my speed that train quite regularly that I enjoy seeing most mornings. We don't talk smack, we lift each other up, encourage each other to go home and get rest or whatever -- and we text each other all the time. It has made a world of difference. When I swam with another group that had mostly either really fast men, or seriously slower than me swimmers, I had a hard time not getting discouraged. Now I have people who are just as interested in doing the things I like to do, as I am, and we are all close to the same speed. So, I guess I'm saying, maybe you need to change your workout group? That being said, there have been many a morning when I woke up at 4:50am, feeling super tired and unmotivated, when I told myself "just get up and go to the pool! It's what you DO!"

RE: Training Long Term

CJR — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 03:02:11 GMT

I think Patrick has a good plan in place. If your background is similar to mine, then you started at a young age. You swam summer club, age group year round, 4 years of HS and lucky enough to make it through 4 years of college swimming. Even while I served in the military I found time to get to a pool. I did not have the long competitive break off, as I started back into Masters in 1996. So just think about the amount of yards you have put in. I have only been track GTD since 2008, and I have over 3 million yards. Think about that. How many yards over a lifetime one could accumulate? Mind blowing stuff if you ask me. Steve makes a valid point about being injured. Your mental side can certainly be influence by your injury report. All was going well for me until 2007, then wham first right shoulder surgery. Came back for 2008 Nat’s in Austin and did well. Then two years later, had knee and left shoulder. Just a few weeks into 2011, March to be exact another knee surgery. The irony about the knees was neither was not due to over use of swimming, but rather getting out of the pool, slipping and damaging my meniscus. Then in April 2012, another left shoulder surgery. So I admit I was depressed because I essentially missed two years of competition. Also, many of friends have gotten out of the sport. So, I have had to try and reinvent myself and find new ways to enjoy the sport. Swimming is a very tough demanding sport. I think Waves101 makes the best point of all, find the little things that make it exciting for you and run with those. Make yourself happy.

RE: Training Long Term

sunruh — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 12:56:55 GMT

so maybe you change some events? or not! go to a meet someplace you havent been before...you missed the one down south! or do a swim that you would never consider or do a wierd workout - 25,75,125,175,225,275s in a 50m pool and stop mid point try breaststroke---EEEWWWWW no dont thats just a joke. pm's some of your friends (the insane ones like McRib and Ewok and PWB or Sandbagger) and ask for a little psycotherapy. this morning i showed up to swim....i volunteered to coach when nobody showed up on deck.

RE: Training Long Term

knelson — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 12:43:14 GMT

so what if you dont make 550 or 500 miles...who cares? mileage proves nothing. I agree with that, but I was just using it to show how much less I've trained this year than normally.

RE: Training Long Term

sunruh — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 12:20:16 GMT

kirk i think you have to vary or else you will get ground down. so what if you dont make 550 or 500 miles...who cares? mileage proves nothing. it has to be fun or it becomes a job. EWWWWW! no thanks. ever! and by vary i dont mean get hurt and need surgery....oh that is a big NO NO!!! steve

RE: Training Long Term

Former Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 08:48:16 GMT

Wookie beat me to it. I had just read the article on SwimSwam from Josh Davis about his experiences and results with USRPT over the past 2 years and it seemed like it might be a good option given your ebbing desire to swim frequently and for long periods of time. As for taking a break from the pool, I did take several months off of swimming a few years ago to focus on road biking. I ultimately found myself missing swimming and lost interest in biking. Getting back into swimming shape wasn't the most enjoyable experience but I haven't felt a need to take a break from the pool since then. I think my advice would be to shake up your training and if that still leaves you uninspired, there's certainly no harm in taking some time off from the pool. If you haven't been enjoying the process of training recently, forcing yourself to continue doing the same thing in hopes of eventually coming around seems unlikely to cure what ails you. EDIT: I hope you bring back your blog at some point in time. It's always been one that I read regularly.