Training SCY for LCM races

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Former Member — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 07:00:45 GMT

I've never done the Europeans so haven't checked the rules before, but wonder if they have changed with closer alignment to the senior European Championships...

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Former Member — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 05:47:27 GMT

That stinks! I guess I read the affiliation rule as any club whose parent was registered with FINA. Seems odd that anyone can compete at USMS but the reciprocal is not true in Europe. I wonder if the 1 year rule applies to Europeans who are only now starting to swim? Although we've gone somewhat off-topic: The point of comparison is with our Nationals, for which you must be registered with an Amateur Swimming Association (or Scottish / Welsh equivalent) OR a club from any FINA affiliated federation. Which I'm not sure USMS is, although perhaps clubs that are registered with USMS are also registered with USA Swimming? The point is that the Europeans are a European Championship. Otherwise it would be the World Championship. I guess you don't have an pan-American Masters Championship or anything? Incidentally, I thought that you had to be registered with USMS to compete at Nationals but it isn't clear from the rules. You can't enter a relay team from a non-USMS team, though...

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

StewartACarroll — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 02:16:49 GMT

Although we've gone somewhat off-topic: The point of comparison is with our Nationals, for which you must be registered with an Amateur Swimming Association (or Scottish / Welsh equivalent) OR a club from any FINA affiliated federation. Which I'm not sure USMS is, although perhaps clubs that are registered with USMS are also registered with USA Swimming? The point is that the Europeans are a European Championship. Otherwise it would be the World Championship. I guess you don't have an pan-American Masters Championship or anything? Incidentally, I thought that you had to be registered with USMS to compete at Nationals but it isn't clear from the rules. You can't enter a relay team from a non-USMS team, though... I I agree we have gone off topic and will stop after this post. I am from the uk with dual nationality. I live and swim in the US. the team I swim for is registered with USMS which is a FINA member. US Masters is very inclusive and allows foreign swimmers either join US teams or enter under there foreign team. PanAms allow anyone from any team affiliated with FINA enter. From the sounds of things UK Masters is the same however European masters seems the anomaly. Frustrating but it is what it is.

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

StewartACarroll — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 09:11:47 GMT

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Former Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 08:01:28 GMT

Shame, I was about to suggest a nice club for you to join ;-). As it is the same organisation that manages the senior European championships they are just trying to maintain some consistency. The big difference being that you don't represent your country, but your club. I am in an airport, typing on my phone. I can't copy/paste the reply I got from London right now. But yeah. Only for Europeans. There is one loophole. You could be a US resident and a member of a European club. But you have to be a member for 12 months. Since London is less than 12 months away, it's already too late to try that trick. Dagnabbit.

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Former Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:40:59 GMT

Its like Olympia for masters but without the usa :) euroaquatics2016.london/.../ sorry all you us swimmers, but london is only for european. But dont worry you have the chance 2017 at budapest worlds to swim in europe.

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Swimosaur — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 12:27:55 GMT

sorry all you us swimmers, but london is only for european. I am in an airport, typing on my phone. I can't copy/paste the reply I got from London right now. But yeah. Only for Europeans. There is one loophole. You could be a US resident and a member of a European club. But you have to be a member for 12 months. Since London is less than 12 months away, it's already too late to try that trick. Dagnabbit.

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Swimosaur — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 11:08:54 GMT

So anyone FINA registered anywhere can swim in a USMS meet, but only European registered swimmers can swim in this meet? That's why I want to be careful. :can of worms: I've written an email to the address given by Jayhawk above. Still waiting on reply.

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Allen Stark — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 10:57:38 GMT

So ... Are US swimmers eligible to swim in this meet? That sounds like "no" to me. Is that how it sounds to you? So anyone FINA registered anywhere can swim in a USMS meet, but only European registered swimmers can swim in this meet?

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Swimosaur — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:30:29 GMT

So ... Are US swimmers eligible to swim in this meet? That sounds like "no" to me. Is that how it sounds to you?

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Stevepowell — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:21:37 GMT

Do I have to be European to compete at the LEN European Masters Championships 2016?

No, but you must be have been under the jurisdiction of one or several European clubs for at least twelve (12) months.

I am not a member of a club but still want to compete at the LEN European Masters Championships 2016. Can I?

Competitors shall be eligible for a club either affiliated to a Member Federation or affiliated to a Federation registered by LEN.

Entries shall be confirmed and submitted by the Federation in the name of the club to which the competitor belongs.

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Swimosaur — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 09:58:51 GMT

I am trying to arrange a group from Dallas, Tx, straddling to the Europeans next May ... Are US swimmers eligible to swim in this meet? euroaquatics2016.london/.../

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Former Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 09:38:39 GMT

I don't think that training short course is an issue - and as has been pointed out can be a benefit (better turns) if used well. I think that racing short course, particularly SCY, can hide a multitude of sins (lack of fitness) and the important thing is to have done the work. I've struggled long course in the past, especially over 200 ***, but it's not through a lack of long course training. As the Europeans are in London next year I'm planning to swim LC next year so will try to put my theory into practice!

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

StewartACarroll — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 08:39:39 GMT

As the Europeans are in London next year I'm planning to swim LC next year so will try to put my theory into practice! I am trying to arrange a group from Dallas, Tx, straddling to the Europeans next May. The dates are not the best with kids still in school but it feels like a great opportunity to compete in an awesome facility. Hope to see you there!

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Former Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 07:56:47 GMT

- Here is their FAQ page: euroaquatics2016.london/.../ Do I have to be European to compete at the LEN European Masters Championships 2016? No, but you must be have been under the jurisdiction of one or several European clubs for at least twelve (12) months. I am not a member of a club but still want to compete at the LEN European Masters Championships 2016. Can I? Competitors shall be eligible for a club either affiliated to a Member Federation or affiliated to a Federation registered by LEN. Entries shall be confirmed and submitted by the Federation in the name of the club to which the competitor belongs. LEN Rules: In addition to the LEN General Event Rules the following REGULATIONS shall apply: www.len.eu/.../22 EUROPEAN MASTERS CHAMPIONSHIPS IN SWIMMING DIVING SYNCHRONISED SWIMMING AND OPEN WATER SWIMMING.aspx MA-G 2 Entries and Entry Fees MA-G 2.1 Competitors shall be eligible for a club either affiliated to a Member Federation or affiliated to a Federation registered by LEN. MA-G 2.2 Entries shall be confirmed and submitted by the Federation in the name of the club to which the competitor belongs. MA-G 2.3 Any competitor having represented a non-European Club shall not represent a European club unless he has been under the jurisdiction of one or several European clubs for at least twelve (12) months. MA-G 2.4 Entries, including signed Release of Liability by every competitor, shall be sent to the Organising Committee together with one photo (passport size). MA-G 2.5 The deadline for the submission of entries and the payment of the entry fees shall be no later than the date announced by the LEN Office. MA-G 2.6 Entry fees shall be as decided by the LEN Bureau and circulated by the Organising Committee. MA-G 2.7 Entry fees shall be paid to the Organising Committee. Confirmation of payment shall be attached to the entries. MA-G 2.8 There shall be no refund of entry fees. - The email address for additional inquiries is: aquatics2016@swimming.org -

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Rob Copeland — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 01:55:47 GMT

Is USMS "a Member Federation or affiliated to a Federation registered by LEN"?No

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Swimosaur — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 01:33:27 GMT

Thanks, Stevepowell. I couldn't find that. But it doesn't clearly answer the question, which can now be rephrased as, Is USMS "a Member Federation or affiliated to a Federation registered by LEN"? I guess I should just ask USMS!

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Former Member — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 14:37:47 GMT

. My question is, what kinds of swims do I do in yards that could condition my body for the stresses of long course races? Alex M. I think threre is no point. You HAVE to train long course to swim better there. The many turns of the short course just kill your ability to stay long, smooth and develope a specific style suited for long course. Because your frequency and distance per stroke are different in the short course. In the short course you have every 15-20 seconds turn overs, you have underwater kicks, your speed and water-movements are changing everytime. You can't say I am going to train short course and getteing better at LCM because these are two different worlds.

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

orca1946 — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 12:10:18 GMT

Very cool that you even have access to long course. Keep doing what you are doing and don't sweat the small stuff

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Elaine Krugman — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 07:35:14 GMT

I'm sorry you feel that way,that has certainly not been my experience.I agree that racing LCM is a totally different from racing SC,but my experience is that with a little creativity I can be prepared for LCM races. Yeah, I would say your "little creativity" has paid off! MartinK, King Frog (Allen Stark) has proven his statement by breaking a WORLD record in Montreal at the World Championships. It was his second; the first was at Auburn Nationals in 2011.

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

mmlr38 — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 04:45:17 GMT

I'm sorry you feel that way,that has certainly not been my experience.I agree that racing LCM is a totally different from racing SC,but my experience is that with a little creativity I can be prepared for LCM races. I totally agree with Allen. I've never ever done a single LCM practice (for lack of opportunity) but at the 2013 LCM nationals, I won three events in my age group. I find that SCY is more than adequate preparation for me to compete very well in LCM and open water. I do a lot of open water races too and consistently place quite well at them, often winning my age group or even winning the entire event, yet I haven't done an open water "practice" swim in nearly 2 years (I only get in the open water to race now, not to train). I think it really comes down to where your strengths lie and what you need to work on. For me, I don't have any problem with endurance or finding a rhythm for swimming long distances. But I do have problems controlling my breath out of turns, so I focus on improving that aspect of my swimming. Figure out what your weaknesses are and then work on improving them.

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Allen Stark — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 02:25:22 GMT

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Karl_S — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 05:08:01 GMT

The closest LCM pool to me is 2.5 hours away. As such, I've actually never done an LCM workout in my life, but am a much better LCM swimmer than I am SCY. I don't have problems with strength and endurance on open water events or LCM meets. For me, I think SCY is the best way to train because it forces me to work more on turns and breath control. The act of actually swimming isn't the hard part...it's all that darn turning and breath holding! Just to add a data point, my experience is similar. I've done about three LCM workouts total in my life, but have often been quite pleased with my swims at LCM meets. Here are some ideas, some of which have already been noted: 1) Three LCM workouts per week sounds excellent, you get lots of LCM practice, but can use the SCY days to work on turns, raw speed and other things more suited to a SCY pool. 2) Swimming SCY 225s in practice helps to get used to the extra distance. I find that the strategy for swimming a 225 SCY is quite different. The 225 breaks nicely into thirds, (3x75) whereas the 200 LCM is usually thought of as 2x100 or 4x50. Nevertheless a 225 SCY gives a time that is often a reasonable proxy for what I can do 200 LCM. I started a thread about it some time ago. You may view it here: forums.usms.org/showthread.php 3) Continuing along the same idea, race pace efforts of 3x75 on an interval that gives about 15s rest seem to be good training for 200 LCM. 4) Swim 100s with "phantom turns" at the 25 and 75. (Phantom turn = turn but don't touch the wall.) This is especially valuable for fly and *** as it helps get used to NOT having the wall. This is discussed in post #2 and post #7 above. 5) In kick sets, do "tombstone kick." (Tombstone kick = hold the kick-board vertically to present the maximum resistance to forward motion.) This will make each 25 take a lot longer and help you get used to the long duration of kicking between turns. 6) One summer I trained in a SCM pool. That worked out great! 7) Last summer I did most of my training in a 49-yard pool and that was actually very good too, once I got used to it. 8) Keep training hard. You are going to be fine.

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

Gary P — Mon, 22 Jun 2015 08:09:15 GMT

I only wish I could get 3 LCM workouts a week in. The reality is more like 3 a year.

RE: Training SCY for LCM races

mmlr38 — Mon, 22 Jun 2015 06:55:48 GMT