Elbow pain/injury

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Former Member — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 15:56:04 GMT

Did a very slow 1.6 miles today, again with the brace. Elbow started to get a little uncomfortable so I stopped short of 2 miles. Next time I will do 1 mile. If everything feels fine again, I might try another half-mile, but even if I feel fine after 1.5 miles, I will not push it beyond that. Determined not to let this become a chronic injury. Probably won't be able to do the 3-mile open water swim on July 12th, but we'll see how it goes.

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Former Member — Sun, 28 Jun 2015 09:51:39 GMT

Did a slow mile today with an elbow brace given to me by the sports medicine doc. No pain. Maybe I will try for 2 miles on Tuesday but stop if there's any pain. I don't want to push myself but I do want to get a sense of whether or not I should do the 3-mile open-water 'race' on July 12th. I've given up on trying for a good time and will be happy if I finish without any pain.

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Bobinator — Sun, 28 Jun 2015 05:32:39 GMT

I had some elbow pain a few years back. Truthfully I think the whole thing started by using paddles that were BIG and trying to swim fast with them. My freestyle pull is a bit sketchy too. I didn't quit swimming: I spent 3-4 weeks doing the team workout but kicking only. I used small fins most of the time. I feel like it improved my kick + I was surprised I didn't loose much conditioning. My Physical Therapist recommended I purchase and use a Therabar. Here's the link for Amazon: www.amazon.com/.../B00CMMZUHC I believe this bar gave me some relief and possibly built up some of the small muscles in my forearm. I tried one of those arm bands but it didn't seem to help. I cinched it down as tight as I could but it still slipped off. Good luck, I hope things are back to normal for you asap!

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Former Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 09:56:35 GMT

People like you and me who only breathe to one side, tend not to rotate as far to the non-breathing side. I believe it's more common to have rotator cuff issues on your non-breathing (under-rotated) side. If you are having issues on your breathing side, I'm skeptical that bilateral breathing will help. Like you, I have shoulder problems on my breathing side. Bilateral breathing (when I have tried it) has been no help at all. In fact it has hurt. My right shoulder hurts, so when I breathe on my left and skip the breath on the right, I (of course) tend to under-rotate to the right. That just makes the shoulder sore. As for "a whole new set of exercises", doing them for a few weeks then stopping probably won't help in the long run. Make sure that you continue at least some subset of them for the long term. I have only found long term changes possible (strength, weight, flexibility, whatever) when I've been able to incorporate small changes to my daily routine on an ongoing basis. So, for example: cut out a soda or skip elevensies, not go on a massive diet to lose weight find a simple set of shoulder exercises which don't require special equipment or a trip to the gym do a few stretches while binge watching Game of Thrones instead of signing up for a yoga class across town you go to at most once a week (Sorry if I sound preachy. Don't mean to. "Bending the curve" is really all that's ever worked for me though...) Thanks, smontanaro. I agree about the difficulty of incorporating these specific exercises into a sustainable regime. Good to know about bilateral breathing not necessarily being part of the remedy.

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Former Member — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 14:05:41 GMT

Finally got in to see the sports medicine doc today (instead of the physician assistant at the orthopedic surgeon's office). He seemed to know what he was talking about--made a point of 'name-dropping' that he's seen the same issue in NY Yankees pitchers that he treats. He says the real problem is with my shoulder and the elbow injury is secondary, from over compensating for the shoulder issues, which are scapula (shoulder blade) and rotator cuff (tendons and muscles in the shoulder that connect the arm to the) scapula. My shoulder doesn't even hurt, but he demonstrated that it is in fact weaker than the other shoulder when doing some movements. Apparently, he can see it even with my poor posture that I am holding one shoulder higher than the other. He gave me a whole new set of exercises and is sending me to physical therapy for the shoulder. (I always breathe on that side so maybe I should learn bilateral breathing?) He says I can start swimming again as long as I'm not in too much pain and compensate with poor form. He does not want me to work on speed drills or worry about my time, but (surprisingly) said that I should be able to do the 3.1-mile open-water swim I'm signed up for in a couple of weeks.So I am changing my goal from time to finishing without pain as slowly as I can without sinking.

RE: Elbow pain/injury

smontanaro — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 10:56:03 GMT

He gave me a whole new set of exercises and is sending me to physical therapy for the shoulder. (I always breathe on that side so maybe I should learn bilateral breathing?) People like you and me who only breathe to one side, tend not to rotate as far to the non-breathing side. I believe it's more common to have rotator cuff issues on your non-breathing (under-rotated) side. If you are having issues on your breathing side, I'm skeptical that bilateral breathing will help. Like you, I have shoulder problems on my breathing side. Bilateral breathing (when I have tried it) has been no help at all. In fact it has hurt. My right shoulder hurts, so when I breathe on my left and skip the breath on the right, I (of course) tend to under-rotate to the right. That just makes the shoulder sore. As for "a whole new set of exercises", doing them for a few weeks then stopping probably won't help in the long run. Make sure that you continue at least some subset of them for the long term. I have only found long term changes possible (strength, weight, flexibility, whatever) when I've been able to incorporate small changes to my daily routine on an ongoing basis. So, for example: cut out a soda or skip elevensies, not go on a massive diet to lose weight find a simple set of shoulder exercises which don't require special equipment or a trip to the gym do a few stretches while binge watching Game of Thrones instead of signing up for a yoga class across town you go to at most once a week (Sorry if I sound preachy. Don't mean to. "Bending the curve" is really all that's ever worked for me though...)

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Celestial — Sat, 13 Jun 2015 06:35:20 GMT

Dr. Gull, that was an awesome article! Wish I had that when I hurt mine several years ago. I hurt mine sculling - and racing at the same time. Because my doctor was convinced that it was "just" tennis elbow, we only got Vioxx and steroid shots. After a couple more years of this, and now my elbows were about 3 times larger than usual I decided to do what any good NP ought to have done years before, and I stomped my foot and demanded an EMG by neuro. Well, after the cubital tunnel was released, it was almost immediate how much better I felt. I had less swelling coming OUT of surgery than going in! And 4 years later am still fine. Moral of the story: if the pain continues robrect, consider neurology. Sometimes it's not muscular. AND, I personally believe that if done correctly, EVF will take strain OFF your elbow - you'll feel it more in your deltoid and biceps.

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Former Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 14:23:11 GMT

Oh, geez, I may finally have to stop avoiding the damned kickboard!

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Swimspire — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 11:05:48 GMT

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Swimspire — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 09:36:27 GMT

Sorry to hear about the continued soreness you are experiencing. However, you don't necessarily need to avoid the pool entirely. There is so much you can do without the use of your injured arm! I will often have swimmers experiencing injuries focus on kicking sets or single arm sets so that they are continuing to build up endurance and strength while allowing their injury to heal. While many swimmers feel that full stroke is the only way to go, that is actually quite far from the truth. If done properly and appropriately, drills can be just as much of a strength and technique-building exercise as regular swimming sets. The most important thing for you not to do is to fall into a cycle where you are out of the pool for days at a time, and return, only to have the problem flare up again and once more be forced to step away from the pool. Try to keep practicing in the pool without using your injured arm and then when you feel fully recovered, you can begin introducing fullstroke gradually. Good luck!

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Former Member — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 15:44:04 GMT

Stayed out of the pool for 10 days to let my epicondylitis (tennis & gold elbow) heal. Swam a very slow mile and a half and was starting to notice some tricep soreness. As it started moving more toward the elbow, I stopped and when I got out of the pool the lower tricep was red and warm. Never saw that before. Guess I'll be out of the pool for a while still. I will not let this become a chronic injury. But in the meantime, I've gone back to biking and the leg workout is a good complement to the swimming.

RE: Elbow pain/injury

__steve__ — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 10:06:36 GMT

Gull, thanks for sharing the following valuable bit of info: www.drjuliansaunders.com/.../ My right biceps brachii, I think it is, tendon (whatever long head, lower tendon is) has been nagging me since last year. I couldn't curl, or even do lat exercises without sharp pain. Sometimes I even had trouble placing the manual transmission for my car in reverse. Anyway, it would get a little better then go bad again, and again. I read that article and decided to try. Four workouts later, which included specific eccentric (negative) arm curls for this at end of routine, the inflammation does not exist. In fact, I noticed improvement right after the first workout.

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Former Member — Mon, 01 Jun 2015 16:09:38 GMT

Thanks, everyone, this is all very helpful!

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Former Member — Sat, 30 May 2015 15:57:16 GMT

Check this out-- www.drjuliansaunders.com/.../

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Swimspire — Sat, 30 May 2015 08:29:01 GMT

I'm happy to help! It's good that you're not completely abandoning the idea of working on the early vertical forearm. What you can do is try to work on that specific aspect of your stroke separately (in the form of a drill), so that you won't have to focus too much on it and put undue pressure on your joints during the fullstroke. Once you've honed the concept into your muscle memory, you will be able to incorporate it into the fullstroke more easily. This is a great drill for early vertical forearm. I have my swimmers alternate between fullstroke and this drill every 25 or so. https://vimeo.com/82897160

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Rich Abrahams — Sat, 30 May 2015 07:11:57 GMT

Check this out-- www.drjuliansaunders.com/.../ Good article Craig. Over the past year I have experienced tendonosis of both the left elbow (medial) and shoulder. A shoulder MRI revealed "severe tendonosis". Did not get an elbow MRI. I had a great PT who had me do tons of eccentric work. No ice. No anti inflammatories. Both problems were fully resolved in about 6 weeks.

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Former Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:18:30 GMT

It is difficult to say exactly what the cause could be without seeing your stroke - and whether or not it is even from swimming or from something else. In terms of swimming, there are a few questions to ask. Did you start practicing the early vertical forearm technique recently, and how often have you been implementing it into your workouts? This type of pull can be stressful on the elbows if you are compensating for weaker muscles by placing more pressure on the elbow joint. Also, do you use flipturns or open turns? Open turns, if practiced forcefully and repetitively, can also place strain on the elbow. These are just a few possibilities. I would recommend getting your stroke analyzed above and under water by a specialized technique coach to see if swimming is causing the trouble - and if so, what you might be doing incorrectly. Thanks, swimspire. I've only recently started trying to focus on EVF, but I also jumped my continuous distance from 3 to 5 miles so I'm pretty sure swimming is the cause. I only do flip-turns. I haven't given up on EVF yet. I should probably be increasing distance more gradually and I will probably lay off of EVF at least for a while and try to become a more patient person.

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Former Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:31:17 GMT

Saw the sports medicine guy. Tennis & golfer's elbow (lateral and some medial epicondylitis). No swimming or weightlifting for at least 10 days, doing special wrist stretching exercises, and wearing an elbow strap. Biking OK. If pain gone after 10 days, I can go back in the pool. Perhaps I should abandon the bent elbow catch and pull (EVF). I'm sad to not be able to swim, but as long as I am smart about this, I should be able to avoid this becoming chronic, at least that is my hope. I can't run or walk long distances because of major foot surgery a few years ago, but I am planning on biking to and from work, 12 miles each way and can do some core and leg work-outs.

RE: Elbow pain/injury

Swimspire — Fri, 29 May 2015 05:22:38 GMT