No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

Former Member — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 11:49:57 GMT

are your times off a starting block or just from wall to wall? I agree with what another user said- need a coach to look at your stroke to see where any improvement can be found. Hard to know what's missing with out seeing it. Long ago when I first had similar issues my coaches said I was trying to come up too early after the jump off the starting block (slows you down) and not getting a good kick off the wall after the flip turn. if your friend swims faster, then you should do side by side comparison. Start at the same time and try to keep up, both for kick, for pull, and for sprint- watch him? how far below he water is he kicking, how much splash? position of where your kicking changes your body in the water- if your on top of it, or fighting through it. my arms are also my strength, however my kick does help- so sometimes when im practicing I count as fast as I need to kick and kick to the rhythm of my counting to force me to think about my kick. My arms are automatic- but I tend to not use my legs even during sprint- Since I have to think about using them I drum out 1,2,3,4 1,2 for one pull, 3,4 for the next- good luck

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

Former Member — Fri, 28 Mar 2014 12:11:32 GMT

Its hard to tell but your knees seem to bend quite a bit and this may be creating some drag. Remember to originate the kick from the hip not so much the knee. It also appears that you may not have a high elbow with your right arm as you do with your left arm. I was not able to slow it down but you right arm seemed like a fly motion verse a high elbow free. I also think that if you start faster in the first couple of strokes this will help in your wall position on your flip. This should then allow a good kick off that will allow for more power. A lot of time can be gained or lost on starts and flips and sadly many people leave this out of the work-out.

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

Former Member — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:40:01 GMT

i thought about lifting wheights, but i dont know if now is the right time to start with that, or if i should try to improve more without that first? i often read it can be bad for technique. I'm sure that getting massive won't help technique, but that's not going to happen. When you are tired from doing weights, you might find it hard to hold a good technique, but you'll get used to that.

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

Former Member — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 09:06:31 GMT

Thank you very much! Yeah that first 25m was kind of slow, normally when im going out somewhere like 13.3-13.7s on 25m, i think in this case it was the bad breakout. i was to deep in the water when i did my first pull. I really need to work on my starts, i rarely do that and they dont feel powerful at all. 9.2s on 25M are awesome, i think i need 7s for only the first 15m. i will, like you say, from now on, do several starts in every workout. and will try as well to do more dolphinkicks after the turn. for streamline: i think i tend to look forward in sprinting, i will try to avoid that. i hope with that, and a lot of flutterkicktraining i can improve my times! thank you alot, for watching over my swimming and helping me! i thought about lifting wheights, but i dont know if now is the right time to start with that, or if i should try to improve more without that first? i often read it can be bad for technique.

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

Swimspire — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 03:50:24 GMT

Hi Narco, It's great that you are seeking to improve your swimming on your own, and seeking advice from videos/books and from this forum. However, as others have suggested here, you should try to get an independent stroke analysis from a coach, whether on-deck or online. You seem to be focusing mainly on improving your time in the 50 free - and while your time is certainly important, it is not going to improve without first improving the mechanics of your stroke. Getting an opinion from a properly qualified coach will allow you to determine your areas of weaknesses and what types of drills and workouts you need to pursue in order to improve. Based on your video, there are several weaknesses in your stroke technique that are not allowing you to improve as much as you can. For example, your left arm is not finishing completely - therefore you are not getting as much distance per stroke. There are a variety of drills that can improve the symmetry and balance in your stroke. Your arms are also slipping and spinning through the water, as opposed to helping you move forward more efficiently. In other words, you are not making gains that are proportionate to the amount of effort you are putting in to the stroke. Here is a link to an article that provides some drills to help you develop your catch : www.swimspire.com/.../ You might also want to consider getting customized workouts based on your specific needs. I noticed that the workout you gave as a sample is significantly lacking in drills and technique work, which at this point is something you need most. Good luck!

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

Allen Stark — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 06:19:44 GMT

You didn't get out far on the start.Work on more explosiveness by doing some vertical jumps and doing several starts at each workout.Your first 2 strokes were slower tempo than the rest,get into your rhythm ASAP.On the start you seemed pretty good with your SDKs,but on the turn you came up quick.On the turn you need to be underwater long enough to get under the turbulence you bring into the wall in your wake.

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

__steve__ — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 01:14:55 GMT

That was a good 50! You were 14.5 out, and 15 low back, which brings 2 things to mind: 1)Though you took 5 more strokes back, you were only just over 0.5 faster on the first 25 which seems that you can improve your start. Wiki plyometrics, also power training with weights can help too (there is an Olympic style power lifter masters swimmer who does 25M in 9.2, with little pool training). Work the streamline position throughout, avoid lifting head forward 2) You may be conditioned for more than a 50, 25 training is good but also try to improve your 15m times from the block. A knock-out start and breakout can turn a 29 swim into a 27-28 Others more experienced in this area should soon chime in, stay tooned .. Grüβe

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

Former Member — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 07:56:07 GMT

Hello, This week i trained a lot at race pace, doing 50m and 25m on long rest. and a lot of flutterkick. i set a new personal record on the 50m shortcourse flutterkick in 54s. Today i did a short video of 50m freestyle. it was after training so its not the fastest but u can see my technique^^. the breakout was extremly bad and really ruined the time for that one, i felt how i slowed myself down... the time taken was 29.87s but it was without startsignal. the quality is not as good, i have a lame smartphone, and at some times my legs are not really in the picture^^ www.youtube.com/watch

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

ande — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 11:33:30 GMT

You can swim faster faster When you train: swim and kick short distances at top speed. like 15 meters & 25 meters then get more rest before you do your next repeat. Time yourself. Track your times. follow my suggestions in Help! My Flutter Kick is horrible. Lift weights and get stronger.

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

orca1946 — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 06:00:23 GMT

Yes - if you want faster 50's , then you will need to more speed work at that distance. I do not have many "fast twitch" fibers, so i like distance more. Sorry about the caps.

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

knelson — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 01:19:04 GMT

AFAP = as fast as possible

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

Former Member — Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:41:28 GMT

Im usually training in intervall-sets: Like 10x50m on 0:50 or 8x100m on 1:45 in freestyle or 2:00 for IM... im mixing evrything up, and do 4x50m drills between hard intervalls. My training could look like this: 400m warmup swim 5x200m Free on 3:10 50m easy 400m flutterkick followed by 8x50m 4x50m drills 8x100 IM on 2:00 200-400m cooldown I´m also sometimes swimming butterfly, breasttroke and backstroke, but mostly freestyle. For Butterfly im going 31.5s and Breaststroke 37.8. My backstroke is terrible, maybe as fast or a bit slower than my ***^^ In last half year i was doing a lot of Flutterkick sets, and just kicking 800m, cause i believed just making meters in flutterkick should help me, and it did. Yesterday my training was not so long. i tried 20x25m on :45 and then i did flutterkick 8x50m on 1:30 and 8x25m on 0:45. my times in 50m flutterkick ranged from 1:02-1:05 at 25m :25-:30 the 25s really felt good, in the middle of the set my stroke felt better than usually, in the end maybe 20 repeats were to much.

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

Former Member — Tue, 18 Mar 2014 11:52:16 GMT

Yes thats making a lot of sense. I think i knew it... thats why i started practicing the kick for the last year, but i need to kick much more, and leave my pullbuoy at home. Because for example when i was training alone, i sometimes just grabbed my pullbuoy when i was tired, so it really was a "crutch" for me. You don't really state what kind of training you are doing, but as well as agreeing that technique is probably the issue, it may be that you are not training to swim fast, rather swimming for endurance...?

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

Former Member — Tue, 18 Mar 2014 09:51:27 GMT

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

The Fortress — Tue, 18 Mar 2014 03:46:36 GMT

You are training like a middle distance swimmer.If you want to be a sprinter you need to sprint. 25s on the min or even more rest or12.5s on the 30 sec would be better. You need race pace work.See the HIT site I mentioned earlier,especially go back into the archives to see some of Leslie's workouts. Agree. Personally, I do AFAP 15s on 1:00, AFAP 25s on 3:00, and AFAP 50s on 5:00 (both swim and kicks with recovery swimming in-between). When I was training for long course Zones last year (where I set a world and national record in the 50s), that's all I did in my training. AFAPs = both swim & kick. Specialize and train like a sprinter!

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

Allen Stark — Tue, 18 Mar 2014 02:47:33 GMT

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

knelson — Mon, 17 Mar 2014 11:34:19 GMT

i think i maybe worked too much on my pull for the time i swim. too much meters with a pullbuoy I agree with this. A pull buoy can become a "crutch." Not sure if you understand this English idiom, but I mean you are a poor kicker so you are making up for it by using a pull buoy, when really you should be kicking more because that is your weakness. Does that make sense?

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

Former Member — Mon, 17 Mar 2014 10:20:25 GMT

Thank you both for your fast answers! Yeah i think i will now focus more on my technique, and especially on the things you said: stroke efficiency, body position and rythm, and of course on the flutter kick. I cant go under 1:00 on LC50M too, so that will also be a problem. but i was also swimming as fast as now when i swam 1:20 flutter kick on short course. i think i maybe worked too much on my pull for the time i swim. too much meters with a pullbuoy, that could be the problem why my improvement in flutter kick now isnt paying off? i think maybe i shouldnt use the pullbuoy until i became faster... and i think i will try to change my training to shorter intervalls, so i can focus more on the technique. i think strength is not my problem, when i started swimming i became strong very fast in my upper body again. i think because of my canoeing background. (although i had a break from sport for 6 years, i also lost about 22lbs) ankle flexibility is also something i am currently working on using some exercises i saw on "the race club" site. i will try to get myself filmed at saturday for the first time when im swimming a 50m freestyle and upload it on youtube and post a link inthis thread. i just read a lot of threads here, and i think this might rly help me improving and maybe im going to see my mistakes when i made a video :) on the whole thing i will now focus on technique more than power and endurance btw i think ur 46s on 50LCM for the flutterkick are amazing!^^

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

__steve__ — Mon, 17 Mar 2014 09:21:59 GMT

A good tool to use is underwater video. You can review and correct on the fly , or even post here (as I have done through the years) for excellent feedback. Video can expose whatever areas are holding you back. Camera's are getting cheaper too, I just bought a new one with 12 megapixels, good for 3M deep for $49.

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

knelson — Mon, 17 Mar 2014 06:13:13 GMT

I am also trying to make it into the 27's this summer and now flutter kick 50 LCM in 46 seconds. If I can get that down to 41-42 in a few months, I will be well prepared (mentally) to go 27's. Back when I was stuck at 30 -31 I couldn't go under 1:00 flutter kick. Wow, that's amazing progress!

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

__steve__ — Mon, 17 Mar 2014 04:03:42 GMT

My feeling is you've probably reached the limit of your speed with your current swimming technique. Your kick seems like an obvious problem area. Keep working on it. How is your ankle flexibility? Good kicker tend to have very flexible ankles. For your pull are you getting into a high elbow position as early as possible? Fast swimmers get their forearm into a nearly vertical (pointing down at the pool bottom) position early in the stroke to maximize propulsion. How about your starts and your turns? I think it would be worthwhile for you to find a coach/trainer who could look at your strokes and point you in the right direction. Very often what you think you're doing in the water and what you are really doing are not the same at all! Excellent advice, those were many of the areas I had to work to progress. As a beginner sprinter I quickly improved then got stuck at 30 sec LCM 50fr too. But I stayed stuck there for over 2 years. I had to reevaluate everything to find exactly what was holding me back. It was the start, streamline, breakout, stroke efficincy, body position, rhythm and flutter kick - you name it, just about everything. The only thing I had in my favor was strength. Now I am 2 years older, lighter, not as strong - but was able to breakthrough to 28.34 LCM. I am also trying to make it into the 27's this summer and now flutter kick 50 LCM in 46 seconds. If I can get that down to 41-42 in a few months, I will be well prepared (mentally) to go 27's. Back when I was stuck at 30 -31 I couldn't go under 1:00 flutter kick.

RE: No improvements in 50m freestyle :<

knelson — Mon, 17 Mar 2014 03:04:36 GMT