Question about gliding.

RE: Question about gliding.

Former Member — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:18:41 GMT

I am aware that I am a classic overglider as described by Swimsmooth. I glide too much - it feels nice - and it looks good to (amateur) watchers on poolside. Having felt I have plateaued for ages, I decided on a change of scene and have started swimming with another club occasionally. The coach there looked at me swimming, and first - took away my paddles from the poolside, telling me they were making my "problem" worse and not to use them for the foreseeable future, and secondly to up my stroke rate substantially. I have now knocked a second a length off freestyle in just two swim sessions ....... and he is my hero for some, paddle overuse could be one cause of too much glide and loss of stroke timing .......

RE: Question about gliding.

Former Member — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 10:31:48 GMT

I look at it slightly differently. A slight 'pause' with the hand before starting the catch can be very useful to allow the other hand to complete its pull stroke and ensure a good 'push' is effected before exiting the water. In this sense your 'glide' could be very productive IMO :)

RE: Question about gliding.

__steve__ — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 10:36:47 GMT

Brundage is much faster than me, but I don't think it's a good idea to actually glide. Accelerating and decelerating is more energy intensive than maintaining a steady speed (which is an ideal no swimmer reaches). The effects of this are much more in water. So do what sun yang does by all means, but it's not a true glide. On the other hand, catching gently is a them very good idea. I suspect even the .15 seconds Yang is 'gliding', he's actually extending his arm, dumping turbulent air, and getting a good catch.I support the first sentence. There is no room to glide for us mortals. Yang and Brundage are both quite tall, have highly developed skill, and likely a potent kick to assist the brief fraction of time they appear to be gliding (when one arm finishes pushing back, and the other arm is reaching forward, keeping water non-turbulent, and downsweeping). Even when I swim 200M or more I have to make sure each arm is relaying some kind of propulsion (exit - catch), my kick won't sustain the momentum. Any pause, and I stop and sink, but when going all out I'm fine

RE: Question about gliding.

Former Member — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 06:05:50 GMT

I think this glide is sometimes referred to as swimming catch-up or front quadrant (perhaps a TI term here). Recently I watched a not particularly tall swimmer go under 9:00 in the 1000 Free using this type of stroke, and it looked relatively easy...though I'm certain it was not. Obviously a tremendous level of skill and fitness at work here.

RE: Question about gliding.

orca1946 — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 06:01:36 GMT

Yes in shorter distances a "less glide" will be more in play as to distance events. I think that glide might also be the "catch up "phase of the stroke for a lot of us.

RE: Question about gliding.

trexleradam — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:29:36 GMT

RE: Question about gliding.

GregJS — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 05:16:38 GMT

Lui - swimming with a nice long glide feels great - and my guess is that, since gliding is like swimming for "free," it might be more efficient overall (assuming you don't lose too much momentum between strokes), not taking speed into account. But it might not be the most efficient way to swim fast, if that's what you're interested in. Anyways, Total Immersion does discuss these kinds of things at length, so I second pwb's recommendation.

RE: Question about gliding.

Former Member — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 16:50:00 GMT

I'd suggest your check out videos of either Sun Yang (for his 400, 800 and 1500 LCM swims) or Ian Thorpe (for his 200 to 400 LCM swims) and you'll see that they both incorporate a 'glide' into their stroke (but, I don't think of this as a glide; I think of it as active streamlining). According to swim smooth, Sun Yang's glide is only about 0.15 seconds: www.feelforthewater.com/.../our-stroke-analysis-two-best-1500m.html

RE: Question about gliding.

Patrick W. Brundage — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 12:25:07 GMT

According to swim smooth, Sun Yang's glide is only about 0.15 seconds: www.feelforthewater.com/.../our-stroke-analysis-two-best-1500m.html True, but with his stroke rate at just under 1 second per stroke, that still means he is spending 15% of each stroke cycle in a 'glide.' I did say that this depends upon your body type and fitness. In general, taller swimmers will 'actively streamline' more than shorter swimmers. Also, as we are all energy wasting machines in the water and as the most common stroke issue I see is swimmers not ensuring they have a good catch, I think many swimmers would benefit from focusing first on stroke length to build efficiency and effectiveness into their technique and next on stroke rate and power. The biggest lesson I took away from the whole full body tech suit experience was just how important drag reduction is - emphasizing stroke rate before stroke length, I think, is a recipe for a higher-energy costing stroke and less speed.

RE: Question about gliding.

ourswimmer — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:23:21 GMT

Now someone is telling me that it's more efficient to immediately go over to the next stroke without the gliding phase while your arm is stretched. What do you think is more efficient. To echo pwb: In freestyle, you aren't going any faster gliding than you would be if you were pulling. If you are pausing to rest, such as in a swim that lasts for a really long time (and "a long time" is different from one person to another), you should pause in your most streamlined position, which probably is gliding on your leading arm. Otherwise, you may as well get on with it.

RE: Question about gliding.

Patrick W. Brundage — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:18:53 GMT

I think the answer depends upon what events you are training for, your body type and fitness. Remember that your speed is a function of both your stroke rate and your stroke length and that your energy consumption is also related to the two. You will need to play around with the mix of rate and length to figure out what is best for you and the races you are training for. Here are some of my thoughts: If you are training to race the 50, 100 and 200, I'd agree with Cokie that a glide is probably not going to convey the kind of speed you are looking for. However, above that distance and, particularly for open water, incorporating an active streamline into your stroke (which might feel like a glide) should allow you to increase your stroke length and reduce your energy consumption. I'd suggest your check out videos of either Sun Yang (for his 400, 800 and 1500 LCM swims) or Ian Thorpe (for his 200 to 400 LCM swims) and you'll see that they both incorporate a 'glide' into their stroke (but, I don't think of this as a glide; I think of it as active streamlining). If you read the first bit of my blog post, you'll see how I played around with the two (rate and length) this past weekend in a 1000 race as I am trying to figure out the best combination of stroke rate and stroke length - forums.usms.org/entry.php. As a counter-point to Sheila's emphasis on a arm-driven/stroke-rate driven freestyle, I'd suggest you check out Total Immersion on these topics (www.totalimmersion.net)

RE: Question about gliding.

__steve__ — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:15:18 GMT

We lose efficiency pausing before the catch.

RE: Question about gliding.

Cokie — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 10:39:22 GMT

Lui, I have to agree with the person who gave you advice. While gliding feels good, it is often way overdone by Masters swimmers. Check out a book by Olympian Sheila Taormina Swim Speed Secrets. In it she talks about Stroke Rate and it's importance. I like a gliding style for the beginning of warm up and warm down, but increased stroke rate during the workout. Swim Smooth and Effortless Swimming both address Stroke Rate very well. Google them and you'll have some great information. By the way, Stroke Count is different than Stroke Rate.

RE: Question about gliding.

Former Member — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 08:38:36 GMT

True, but with his stroke rate at just under 1 second per stroke, that still means he is spending 15% of each stroke cycle in a 'glide.' I did say that this depends upon your body type and fitness. In general, taller swimmers will 'actively streamline' more than shorter swimmers. Also, as we are all energy wasting machines in the water and as the most common stroke issue I see is swimmers not ensuring they have a good catch, I think many swimmers would benefit from focusing first on stroke length to build efficiency and effectiveness into their technique and next on stroke rate and power. The biggest lesson I took away from the whole full body tech suit experience was just how important drag reduction is - emphasizing stroke rate before stroke length, I think, is a recipe for a higher-energy costing stroke and less speed.Yes I agree. To the original poster, I think it shouldn't ever feel like your arms stop to glide. Once your arm is fully extended you should initiate your catch.

RE: Question about gliding.

Swimspire — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 06:33:34 GMT

I have a question about gliding in freestyle. My way of swimming is that after each stroke I stretch my leading arm, glide and then I go over to the next stroke if you know what I mean. Now someone is telling me that it''s more efficient to immediately go over to the next stroke without the gliding phase while your arm is stretched. What do you think is more efficient. While you should be extending your arm fully prior to beginning the catch phase of the stroke, you should not be slowing down or stopping at this point - the momentum of your stroke cycle and consequently, your speed, will decline if this happens. You need to maintain a continuous stroke cycle. Two opposing drills that will allow you to find a balance in your stroke are the side-to-side (in this case you do glide on your side for two seconds before pulling), and at the opposite end of the spectrum, the "Tarzan" or turnover drill. You or your coach will be able to decide how much of these two drills to implement in practice in order to find your ideal stroke.