Who is doing/teaching this?

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

rtodd — Sat, 14 Dec 2013 04:01:32 GMT

For fly I stick with open turns, but one of the coaches is trying this in practice. I don't think I like the results so far. This is what I try to teach the older kids for back to ***. I call it the flat spin. http://youtu.be/-UZ2FWEJzUA

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

orca1946 — Fri, 13 Dec 2013 11:15:44 GMT

I used to do the bk to br flip & it was cool BUT, I don't think I gained any time in using it.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

JanSwim — Fri, 13 Dec 2013 09:40:12 GMT

I'm wondering if there are any tricks to not smashing your feet? (Like others noted, maybe pushing off with your arms before your feet come all the way around, touching low on the wall...?) It's obvious from the video that done right, that the fly flip turn is crazy fast. Some folks here must remember when you had to touch the wall with your hand in freestyle even if you did a flip turn. From another thread Allen Stark wrote: The turn rule was changed about 1965 so that you didn't have to touch with your hand first in free.Until then many people didn't flip,especially in the longer distances as the speed difference wasn't worth the air lost.After the rule change everyone flipped in free. A related turn that I haven't seen since I returned to swimming is flipping at the backstroke to breaststroke transition in an IM. For me, I felt it took a lot of extra energy without much (or any) increase in speed. Is that the general consensus now?

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

orca1946 — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 02:29:37 GMT

It seems as if he does brush his hands down at the wall when he flips.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

Former Member — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:26:50 GMT

NEAT!!! Thanks rtodd! That is one of the many things I love about swimming ― how much we all get to use our minds, thinking and developing improvements.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

rtodd — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 08:57:17 GMT

It's legal, but you need to commit to practicing it and that is a tricky proposition for a coach to commit to practicing it.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

__steve__ — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 08:40:33 GMT

I disagree. The turn shown in this video is phenomenally fast and there's no way an open turn can match it. I just wonder if it's somewhat physiologically limited. Perhaps this kid's build enables him to pull this off effectively where others would never be able to execute it as well. I viewed the youngster using normal turns in another url for another im. Maybe its illegal for him but as far as our rulebook is concerned it is within all the rules (for now, right? ). My legs would land on the deck if tried it. I wonder if he pushed before flipping

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

knelson — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 04:59:11 GMT

Maybe its illegal for him but as far as our rulebook is concerned it is within all the rules (for now, right? ). No, should be legal for him and us as long as he's touching with both hands simultaneously. Stewart's concern was that he didn't actually ever touch.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

knelson — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 01:20:33 GMT

I think it's legal. I think he dives down as he approaches the wall and touches quite far under the water. This sets up the flip.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

orca1946 — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 01:08:48 GMT

I sent this to our masters team & one of the guys said his 12 year old is doing this in meets.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

Former Member — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 13:12:25 GMT

Really? Seems to me if you just let yourself glide a little, you don't need to time the touch exactly right. The benefit of doing a flipturn, instead of an open turn, will easily erase any time deficit created by the glide.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

knelson — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:48:56 GMT

. Definitely slower or else it would be more common I disagree. The turn shown in this video is phenomenally fast and there's no way an open turn can match it. I just wonder if it's somewhat physiologically limited. Perhaps this kid's build enables him to pull this off effectively where others would never be able to execute it as well.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

Glenn — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 11:26:11 GMT

The timing is difficult, but we had a state champion HS swimmer do this for the 100 fly in the mid 60's...he went 54.8.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

__steve__ — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:14:31 GMT

. Definitely slower or else it would be more common

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

StewartACarroll — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:09:26 GMT

I have watched this over and over, and it looks to me like an illegal turn; it looks fine at full speed, but when you slow it down the swimmers right hand(and possible the left too) does not touch the wall. It looks like he gets really close but does a really well timed double arm pull.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

pmccoy — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 09:49:48 GMT

I tried this out this morning. Never could make fly work. It's kind of hard to time everything right and be confident I wasn't going to plant my ankle into the pool deck. I did make it work with breaststroke but I doubt it looked anything close to the efficiency on the video. Still, it was probably faster than my current ***->free turn. Here's my thoughts: 1 - Timing has to be pretty perfect. Flip too early and I felt like I was going to miss the wall. Flip too late and was afraid I was going to hurt myself. 2 - Even if you do everything right and legal, there might be a risk of getting dq'd. 3 - I found it hard to get my arms into a streamlined position before pushing off. I only tried it a couple times so with some practice, I think it could be a lot better.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

Former Member — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 08:12:48 GMT

Whoa. I'm trying this out later this afternoon.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

rxleakem — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 07:08:17 GMT

I think I would smash my ankles if I attempted that turn at full speed :toohurt:

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

orca1946 — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 06:31:45 GMT

I think you would need a perfect touch to even try this.

RE: Who is doing/teaching this?

Patrick W. Brundage — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 01:07:13 GMT

One of my daughters did that turn in their first 100 IM. It didn't look all smooth and fast like that kid in the video made it look.