So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

aztimm — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 09:23:25 GMT

The other interesting thing I note in the list is that, with all the swimming prowess at the USA swimming level in the mid-Atlantic, we have had no SCY Nationals in the DC to NYC area. I know there have been LCM nats in Baltimore and Rutgers, but wonder why an NYC area team/pool has never bid on an SCY Nationals? I imagine the Greensboro 'relative proximity' to the mid-Atlantic and northeast also drove those numbers higher. That area also has some great Zone meets, so maybe they don't need/want to host a national meet? I've been to the NE SCM Zone meet twice, and I have to say that it is by far my best overall meet experience. Events have enough people that it is possible to do back-to-back and have some rest, yet you aren't stuck sitting around all day either (we wrapped up around 4-5pm). There are restaurants within 5 min walk from the pool, and if those aren't good enough you have 2 T stops about 5 min walk either direction from the pool (which also helps for getting from your hotel to pool, or like me getting from pool directly to Logan when you leave). From the sounds of it, the Colonies Zone puts on similar fantastic meets that attract swimmers from that region. I've only gone to 1 nationals, and I definitely did NOT like the mosh-pit warm-up conditions (the odd thing was the ASU Rec Center pool was wide open and just a 10 min walk away from the comp pool), nor did I like sitting outside baking in the sun waiting for what seemed like hours between events, that were running very behind. It also was a bit of a PITA to go until 7-8pm. While I do like my team's meets, and try to do them if I'm in town, it is really tough to do well in multiple events when so few swimmers show up. They're more like timed workouts than meets; with the advantage you can show up at 7am and be home by 11am. For me, it is more like a Goldilocks scenario...some are too big (and/or inconvenient where I'd need a car), some are too small, and others are just right :)

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

orca1946 — Sat, 13 Apr 2013 01:55:16 GMT

It might be the $$$ for hotels- gas & fees in this down economy. Other than that , it seems in line with other Indy meets. I'm gong, not that it makes much difference.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Former Member — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:06:40 GMT

True enough. That still goes to show that most entries are local, since so many easterners on these forums made loud proclamations that they would not go because it wasn't worth it somehow. Maybe they thought they were in jeopardy of being scalped by indian war parties. Those of us in the west know that hardly ever happens anymore. Remarkable restraint for an LA denizen - you avoided Fresno bashing. One factor that probably reduced out of town attendance for the Clovis meet is airfare into Fresno is usually way more expensive than most destinations; high enough that it is often worth driving to SJC, SFO or LAX before getting on a plane.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Former Member — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:05:11 GMT

Clovis was my favorite SCY Nats.It was so great to have all the warmup I wanted and the weather was great. That's the only Nationals I've been to. Clovis North is ten minutes away. Sadly we will never be able to have a short course nationals there again. In 09, the newly opened Clovis North only had freshmen and sophomores. Now it's a fully attended school and the district would never allow an event that size that is partially on school days.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Former Member — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:04:00 GMT

All in the largest LMSC by far with the best organization and most clubs, just north of the second largest LMSC. Same is true about the Clovis meet (1582).

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Allen Stark — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:38:02 GMT

I loved Clovis nationals, it was lightly attended but it was outdoors with nice weather and there was an insane amount of space for warmups. Often I had a lane to myself for pre-event warmups and could do some good pace work. Even the pre-meet warmups weren't too crowded since there was something like 40 SC lanes available. People who DO go to Indy this nationals are probably in for a similar treat; enjoy. Clovis was my favorite SCY Nats.It was so great to have all the warmup I wanted and the weather was great.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

knelson — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:09:47 GMT

One factor that probably reduced out of town attendance for the Clovis meet is airfare into Fresno is usually way more expensive than most destinations Cheap, direct flights to and from Seattle made this one a no-brainer for me, but I could see how those coming from the east would have to think about it. I loved Clovis nationals, it was lightly attended but it was outdoors with nice weather and there was an insane amount of space for warmups. Probably my favorite out of any Nationals I've attended. Great facility, I swam great and I made a vacation out of it by also visiting King's Canyon and Yosemite during the trip.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Michael Heather — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:04:19 GMT

Remarkable restraint for an LA denizen - you avoided Fresno bashing. I am not the usual LA person you would expect. I grew up visiting family in Kerman (grapes and cotton, really hated Cesar Chavez) every year on the way to Downieville and playing in Roeding park. Only people who don't know (or perhaps know too well) have the temerity to bash a place like Fresno. It is a real city in the very center of rural, agricultural California.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 10:23:57 GMT

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Michael Heather — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 09:49:00 GMT

Same is true about the Clovis meet (1582). True enough. That still goes to show that most entries are local, since so many easterners on these forums made loud proclamations that they would not go because it wasn't worth it somehow. Maybe they thought they were in jeopardy of being scalped by indian war parties. Those of us in the west know that hardly ever happens anymore.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 09:09:28 GMT

Looking ahead to 2014, we have LCM Nationals back in the Mid-Atlantic, but they'll be 'competing' with Worlds in Montreal. Not for me; I'm going to both! :banana: After Worlds, we are going to travel up to Quebec City and back to Montreal, and then fly on to Baltimore for Nationals at the University of Maryland. :ohyeah:

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

swoomer — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 06:55:52 GMT

Forgot to mention the amazing Gold Medal Sponsor spread at Clovis. One of the best!

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

swoomer — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 06:50:38 GMT

Same is true about the Clovis meet (1582). Loved the Clovis meet! I just thought Indy would be huge due to the Midwest location. Also thought everyone should love that pool as much as I do! And lastly, I was sure he 6th event would be dropped and now regretting my choices.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Former Member — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 05:33:27 GMT

Clovis was my first, and so far, only, USMS Nats. Plenty of warm up and cool down space, even with Genadijus occupying a lane or two with his swim metrics testing. This was also the meet where FloSwimming videotaped every heat of every event.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Patrick W. Brundage — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 01:59:23 GMT

I agree with the posts about locals driving attendance (generally), but the Arizona meets (unless you consider Southern Pacific "local") don't seem to match that trend. I wonder how much the 'vacation' / locale attractiveness drive attendance? If I think back to my reasons for going to Clovis, for example, it was primarily to vacation in Yosemite. The other interesting thing I note in the list is that, with all the swimming prowess at the USA swimming level in the mid-Atlantic, we have had no SCY Nationals in the DC to NYC area. I know there have been LCM nats in Baltimore and Rutgers, but wonder why an NYC area team/pool has never bid on an SCY Nationals? I imagine the Greensboro 'relative proximity' to the mid-Atlantic and northeast also drove those numbers higher. Looking ahead to 2014, we have LCM Nationals back in the Mid-Atlantic, but they'll be 'competing' with Worlds in Montreal. I imagine Maryland Nationals will be more lightly attended, but Santa Clara for SCY should be large again (despite the pool being shallow and dated, IMHO ... storied and famous and I'll still be there, but there are better choices of pools in the SF area).

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Michael Heather — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 01:01:26 GMT

Over 2000 participants three times, all of those three locations are within 15 miles. All in the largest LMSC by far with the best organization and most clubs, just north of the second largest LMSC. Indy is in a medium sized LMSC surrounded by medium to small LMSCs. The diehards will travel anywhere, but most attendance is going to be locals.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Former Member — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 16:17:51 GMT

That's saying something! Perhaps Swimosaur should be invited to join the prestigious ranks of the top ten recorders. I'm way ahead of you. Already recruited him. Southeastern LMSC. Oh, the dangers of exposing your geekness on the forums....

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Former Member — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 15:41:43 GMT

Indy is not a small showing. Here's a graph of the data Jayhawk posted above. To my eye, it looks like attendance has been pretty stable over the last 25 years, albeit with a lot of variance. The mean attendance from 1989-2013 is 1702 (standard deviation 259). The pink line represents the mean over the 25 year period. As you can see, attendance this year, at 1636, is pretty close to the mean.7391 Wow, I've been out-geeked. I thought I was doing pretty good to figure out how to insert a table into a post. Didn't think of graphing or statistical analysis. :drink:

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

smontanaro — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:09:10 GMT

Wow, I've been out-geeked. That's saying something! Perhaps Swimosaur should be invited to join the prestigious ranks of the top ten recorders.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

poolraat — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:32:57 GMT

"Off topic here, but does anyone know whether a high school kid has ever swum at masters nationals? I almost opted to skip Indy, but my 18 year old high school senior wants to go and is dragging me along." Jared was in his senior year when he went with me to Nationals in Mesa in 2011.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:19:17 GMT

In reality the Indy attendance probably is about what should be expected. I think Greensboro last year was on the high side. Probably due to it being in a brand new facility, no other competing meets, and maybe even a little Olympic year excitement. There was an incredibly high turnout from within the NC LMSC which is what I think pushed it higher than normal. They did a great job at the USMS equivalent of "GOTV." It is interesting to me that nationals attendance doesn't really correlate with overall USMS membership numbers for the last 25 years. Possibly that could partly reflect the fact that too many people degrades the nationals experience somewhat (longer days, crowded warmup areas, etc). Maybe the current average is right around an optimum spot for that.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

knelson — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:11:45 GMT

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Swimosaur — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:09:03 GMT

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

jaadams1 — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 01:23:47 GMT

In comparison to other Nationals hosted at Indy in the past, it looks like this one is actually a little more attended than previous years. Attendance really is more based on locality to larger population centers and/or warmth/fun stuff to do aside from swimming as well.

RE: So Why is Indy a Small Showing?

Former Member — Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:38:42 GMT

Over 2000 participants three times, all of those three locations are within 15 miles.