Drop-off in speed as distance increases

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Former Member — Sat, 22 Dec 2012 09:35:12 GMT

Oh,come on.Let's face it,everybody would be a sprinter if they could.If I was a 6'6" muscular ball of fast twitch fibers I'd be a freestyle sprinter. You're right, of course :blush:. For me, it's the 100 free that's the most glorious event; I would love to do a 55-56 SCM 100 free. But in my opinion it is perhaps the 400 IM that is the most complete acchievement: all strokes, speed, endurance, transitions. And in practice it's clear that I gravitate towards the longer endurance sets. I find lactate tolerance sets almost unbearable, uncomfortable and boring. So I guess it's distance for me. And I like it :).

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

__steve__ — Sat, 22 Dec 2012 06:43:57 GMT

25 m - 12.8 50 m - 28.6 1500 m - 23:47.0 I do have a time for the 200, but it was long couse3:00 and raced it for fun. I am aware of the amount of suffering a 200 can provide.

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

orca1946 — Sat, 22 Dec 2012 01:45:00 GMT

I like the 400 I'm??!! :bliss: I have learned how to pace:chillpill: myself to finish ok ! :cane:

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Former Member — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 16:41:47 GMT

I have no idea what these numbers means without more data points. Of course we'll never get to see a sprinters numbers because they refuse to swim anything longer than a 200! :) Don't you mean a 100?

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Former Member — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 13:13:07 GMT

Have you reviewed the 2012 SCM results for 45-49? You would rank about 4th -5th for 200, 400, 800, and 1500, about 11th for the 100 and 26th for 50 I haven't, but that sounds great :bliss:! But my swims are not registered with USMS, as I swim in Norway. I look at the rankings from time to time, and I think that my times rank this high because you don't swim SCM that much in the US. You have incredible depth, especially in the freestyle events, it seems. My LCM times probably wouldn't rank that high, and I'm impressed when I covert the TT SCY times and compare them with my results. We swim SCM all year, and LCM for worlds and the European Championship.

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

The Fortress — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 12:09:43 GMT

Don't you mean a 100? Exactly right. 200s are mid-D. Since I do 25s every year in the Battle of the Drop Dead Sprinters, I could measure my 25/50/100 times. Big drop off expected were I to do so.

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Former Member — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 11:47:44 GMT

It took awhile for me to own that new "distance swimmer" label, but I am determined to own it. There's no going back now! :ohyeah: Someone said it so beautifully here on the forums some years back: ADD/ADHD/OCD/PMS/FUBAR/Whiney/Nervous = sprinter Mensa/Beautiful or Very handsome/Popular = distance :bolt:

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

knelson — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 11:17:43 GMT

Cool, I'll use any excuse to crunch some numbers. Here are my stats: Freestyle, SCY 50 23.77 (47.54) --- 100 50.72 (50.72) 6.7% 200 1:49.31 (54.66) 7.8% 500 4:53.45 (58.69) 7.4% 1000 10:13.00 (61.30) 4.4% 1650 17:07.82 (62.29) 1.6% Additionally, my 1650 pace is 22.8% slower than my 100 pace. I checked Sun Yang's times and see last year he went a 49.50 in the LC 100 and 14:31.02 in the 1500. Now I'm sure he can go faster than 49.5, but if you use that his dropoff is only 17.3% between his 100 and 1500. Katie Ledecky this year has been 50.26 in the 100 and 15:28.36 (56.26 pace) for the 1650. That's a drop off of only 11.9%!! I have no idea what these numbers means without more data points. Of course we'll never get to see a sprinters numbers because they refuse to swim anything longer than a 200! :)

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

sickfish — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 10:53:00 GMT

My dropoffs are a lot more significant than yours. 10-11% between 50, 100 and 200m freestyle, 13-18% between 50, 100 and 200m fly. I'm not sure if this is because I'm a sprinter (which is debatable) as much as because my conditioning is poor and my training is inconsistent (which is a fact). Looking at some national record holders, I see fades of 6-9-12% across 50, 100, 200 and 400m for a "sprinter" and 1-2% across 400, 800, and 1500m for a "distance" swimmer.

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

__steve__ — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:55:34 GMT

Eelbilly, do you have a recent timed 25 from the block? If so let me guess just to see how close - 12.7

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Allen Stark — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:47:36 GMT

Someone said it so beautifully here on the forums some years back: ADD/ADHD/OCD/PMS/FUBAR/Whiney/Nervous = sprinter Mensa/Beautiful or Very handsome/Popular = distance :bolt: Oh,come on.Let's face it,everybody would be a sprinter if they could.If I was a 6'6" muscular ball of fast twitch fibers I'd be a freestyle sprinter.

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Former Member — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:13:45 GMT

I'll see your number crunching and raise you a chart! 3797 Ledecky's is a mix of LCM (200, 400, 800) and SCY (1650). I used some of Kirk's numbers as well for Ledecky and Yang. Y-axis is time/100m (had to convert Kirk's and mine). Hope nobody minds the comparison. :applaud:

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:05:20 GMT

Someone said it so beautifully here on the forums some years back: ADD/ADHD/OCD/PMS/FUBAR/Whiney/Nervous = sprinter Mensa/Beautiful or Very handsome/Popular = distance :bolt: Hmmm, I believe it would be in my best interest to leave that alone. :worms: ;)

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Karl_S — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 08:55:56 GMT

If you compare your best times for the various events of a stroke, where does the biggest drop-off occure? Is this different for a sprinter compared to a swimmer of a distance persuasion? How would you analyze this? I would think that my 200 is sub standard (biggest drop-off), and so is my 800 (no faster than 1500). For the shorter swims, the drop-off is more substancial than for the longer swims. Freestyle with all its events was the most interesting subject, but of course I checked the other strokes too. Not all to my surprise there was a discrepancy between butterfly and backstroke drop-offs, from 100 to 200 my speed dropped by 2.6 % (backstroke :)) and 18.0 % (butterfly :afraid:). Here is the analysis for me: % speed drop freestyle A --> B meet practice 25 --> 50 na 3.4 50 --> 100 6.1 9.3 100 --> 200 12.8* 8.6 200 --> 500 na 5.7 500 --> 1650 na 2.8 % speed drop backstroke A --> B meet practice 25 --> 50 na 1.9 50 --> 100 5.9 5.9 100 --> 200 7.1 6.8 200 --> 500 na na 500 --> 1650 na na I've included results for meet swims and best practice swims in separate columns. "na" means I don't have the needed data. * The 200 meet swim was a poor one. I would expect that 100 --> 200 drop to be about 10% if I had a more error-free swim. The biggest drop is in the 100-200 range. Interestingly, my fade isn't as bad in backstroke as in freestyle. I guess that makes sense. The 100 is probably my best free event, wereas the 200 is probably my best backstroke event.

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

__steve__ — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 08:49:38 GMT

More specifically, for 2012 SCM free 50 - 26th out of 197 100 - 13th out of 153 200 - 7th out of 91 400 - 6th out of 75 800 - 4th out of 49 1500 - 4th out of 56 Didnt have coffee before in the first post

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Former Member — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 08:09:34 GMT

I consider myself a drop dead sprinter these days and have also done some distance recently (for a bet): SCM free ----------- 25m (first 25 of a 50)- 11.4 50m - 24.3 100- 54.1 200- 2:01.8 400- 4:25 800- 9:21 Not sure what the % drop offs are, but that 800 was horrendous. Just horrendous. 25m -11.4 (=100 pace 45.6) 50m - 24.3 (=48.6) - 6.6 % 100 - 54.1 (=54.1) - 11.3 % 200 - 2:01.8 (=1:00.9) - 12.6 % 400 - 4:25 (=1:06.25) - 8.8 % 800 - 9:21 (1:10.13) - 5.8 % I must say, there are some good swims on this list. It looks like the big fade is from 50 to 100 and 200. The 400 and 800 hold up quite good, comparatively. The times I do on my best events, you do on your worst events, for a bet. Ouch. No skipping practice this Christmas!

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

__steve__ — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 07:51:11 GMT

Have you reviewed the 2012 SCM results for 45-49? You would rank about 4th -5th for 200, 400, 800, and 1500, about 11th for the 100 and 26th for 50

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Former Member — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 07:15:02 GMT

I have no idea what these numbers means without more data points. Of course we'll never get to see a sprinters numbers because they refuse to swim anything longer than a 200! :) I consider myself a drop dead sprinter these days and have also done some distance recently (for a bet): SCM free ----------- 25m (first 25 of a 50)- 11.4 50m - 24.3 100- 54.1 200- 2:01.8 400- 4:25 800- 9:21 Not sure what the % drop offs are, but that 800 was horrendous. Just horrendous.

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Former Member — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 06:39:35 GMT

Cool, I'll use any excuse to crunch some numbers. :applaud: :agree:! Additionally, my 1650 pace is 22.8% slower than my 100 pace. My 1500 pace is 20.7 % slower than my 100 pace. I should probably stick to the longer events, but the 100 free is THE event; the yardstick. I've got to know my time for the 100 free, shaved and tapered, at least once a year even if it conflicts with 'better' events.

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Former Member — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 06:27:22 GMT

Eelbilly, do you have a recent timed 25 from the block? If so let me guess just to see how close - 12.7 I actually laughed when I read this. In our national Masters championships in March, we compete in the 25 free (it is not an official, 'medal', event). My team likes to be prepared, so we've already filled in the entry forms. I took a look at what other swimmers did in the 25 last year, compared their 50 and 100 times to mine, and entered with a time of 12.75 :D. But this will be my first 25, and I haven't a recent from practice or anything. I can't remember excactly from the 80s, but the best I remember is 12.3. I'll be sure to report my results!

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 05:46:28 GMT

I'll see your number crunching and raise you a chart! Awesome, Peter, AWESOME! :bow: Although I'll spare y'all my number crunching and charts, my coach declared me a distance swimmer instead of a sprinter when: 1. I swam 900 yards of continuous butterfly and said I could have kept going, because I felt better at the end of the swim. And, again: 2. After I negative split my 2,000 fly two weeks later. And, again: 3. When I returned from a 3K open water swim and happily jumped right back in with the 1K group and negative split that race over my previous 1K segments. And, again: 4. After I negative split my 400m and 800m free at Greenville. And, again: 5. After I negative split my 1,000 fly on Wednesday. Every Tuesday/Thursday when I train with my coach in the next lane, he says the same thing when I get stronger as the session progresses. I think I get it now: I'm not a sprinter, after all. :sad: :cry: I'm pretty well convinced if you negative split a long swim and feel better after the halfway point than you did during the first half, you are a distance swimmer, rather than a sprinter*. It took awhile for me to own that new "distance swimmer" label, but I am determined to own it. There's no going back now! :ohyeah: *Exception for me: Breaststroke! But, that's due to medical issues (thoracic outlet syndrome)/ past surgery that makes breaststroke increasingly difficult to swim, as the distance progresses. I am toast at the 150 mark! :afraid:

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

pmccoy — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 05:40:30 GMT

Love it! Looks like an error in Katie Ledecky's 100 number. I don't think she can swim a 50 second 100 meter free :) Ok... fixed it. You should have seen some of the numbers you had on the first revision.

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

knelson — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 04:27:48 GMT

I'll see your number crunching and raise you a chart! Love it! Looks like an error in Katie Ledecky's 100 number. I don't think she can swim a 50 second 100 meter free :)

RE: Drop-off in speed as distance increases

pmccoy — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 03:55:28 GMT

Cool, I'll use any excuse to crunch some numbers. I'll see your number crunching and raise you a chart! 3798 Ledecky's is a mix of LCM (200, 400, 800) and SCY (1650). I used some of Kirk's numbers as well for Ledecky and Yang. Y-axis is time/100m (had to convert Kirk's and mine). Hope nobody minds the comparison.