Foil Body Motion?

RE: Foil Body Motion?

Former Member — Wed, 19 Dec 2012 13:07:13 GMT

From the man himself. swim-links.blogspot.com/.../bob-gillett-explains-underwater-kicking.html Drills for your monofin Training with Monofins - Part 2 - YouTube Excellent site with the videos. I hadn't come across this site before.

RE: Foil Body Motion?

Former Member — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:36:22 GMT

OMG! That is just unfair!!! :bow: Fins aren't just a learning tool. By using them for AFAP work, you're engaging in neuro-muscular patterning. Your body will get used to going above race pace speed and be faster without fins. That's the main value for me in training. This is true, going faster than race pace does have its advantages and training effects associated with it. I have done this kind of training (bungee belt included) and gained some in the past from it. The problem I have, besides finding fins that actually fit me, is kick tempo can never be as high as it is when i am actually sprinting, and that completely throws my stroke off, throws my timing off, and throws my turns off. Perhaps I could revisit use of them since its been years since I tried.

RE: Foil Body Motion?

Former Member — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:24:57 GMT

So old school ... Dave Salo says fins are the #1 best piece of equipment. I know they've helped make me speedy in the fly/back dolphin kick events. Somehow old school thought invaded a new school body ;) I don't really use them because I don't really need them. Used to use them. Learned what could be learned from them... don't use them now. Now my size 15's are plenty. :angel: Glad they work for you and others though.

RE: Foil Body Motion?

Former Member — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 14:47:27 GMT

During a kick set this morning, I alternated between dolphin face down and on the back. It was easier for me to concentrate on the half of the kick where my feet move toward my backside which is the part that has been non-propulsive for me. Thanks for the input! Bill

RE: Foil Body Motion?

The Fortress — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 11:29:55 GMT

I don't really use them because I don't really need them. Used to use them. Learned what could be learned from them... don't use them now. Now my size 15's are plenty. :angel: OMG! That is just unfair!!! :bow: Fins aren't just a learning tool. By using them for AFAP work, you're engaging in neuro-muscular patterning. Your body will get used to going above race pace speed and be faster without fins. That's the main value for me in training.

RE: Foil Body Motion?

ande — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 11:26:52 GMT

I was looking at monofins today and came across the Finis Foil (which is inexpensive enough to just give it a try). The thing is - the advert talks about "The Foil Body Motion" as taught by Bob Gillette. I cant seem to find any reference to this technique outside of the sales materials for the monofin. Is this a real thing or merely sales propaganda? If real, can anyone point me to training or other reference materials? Bill the "foil body motion" is how he describes how Misty Hyman dolphin kicks. She had a lot of upper body movement when she SDKed. Faster SDKer's seem to keep their upper bodies still like Phelps Rallies Past Crocker in 100-fly - YouTube Michael Phelps 100 M Butterfly Rome Final WR - YouTube Though Lochte is very fast and seems to move his pupper body more than Crocker or Cavic when he SDKs Ryan Lochte sets a new World Record in 200m IM - Universal Sports - YouTube you can get a lot of info about dolphin kicking from the SDK lane

RE: Foil Body Motion?

The Fortress — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 10:53:53 GMT

Other than to make yourself dizzy like a four-year-old, what is the benefit of the 360s? -- improve body control, body position, SDK technique -- teach propulsion in all directions -- teach body not to lose momentum -- teach body to change directions efficiently (coming in handy in free turns for example) Vertical kicking is also very helpful in improving dolphin kick.

RE: Foil Body Motion?

smontanaro — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 10:37:25 GMT

I particularly find it helpful to do 25s UW for distance per kick and at top speed on back, belly, both sides and sometimes doing rotating 360s with two kicks each way. Other than to make yourself dizzy like a four-year-old, what is the benefit of the 360s?

RE: Foil Body Motion?

The Fortress — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 10:34:34 GMT

I do not believe in or use fins though... So old school ... Dave Salo says fins are the #1 best piece of equipment. I know they've helped make me speedy in the fly/back dolphin kick events. I particularly find it helpful to do 25s UW for distance per kick and at top speed on back, belly, both sides and sometimes doing rotating 360s with two kicks each way.

RE: Foil Body Motion?

Former Member — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 15:29:00 GMT

it seems to be less than efficient to practice kicking either on your back or on your side if your primary goal is improving butterfly. I do find that while simply kicking with a kickboard (face down) that my down kick is propulsive while the upward kick is not. . It was rather recently that I noticed the same thing about my kick. (Weaker up kick) To the contrary of your first statement though. When I dolphin kick on my back I notice that I emphasize the "down" kick more (which is the up kick for butterfly). By working both on stomach and back sdk I work both beats of the kick and I've noticed a quantifyable difference in speed after doing so for a few weeks. I do not believe in or use fins though...

RE: Foil Body Motion?

Former Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:24:56 GMT

I am not a coach and I have not done much research on this (yet) but it seems to be less than efficient to practice kicking either on your back or on your side if your primary goal is improving butterfly. I do find that while simply kicking with a kickboard (face down) that my down kick is propulsive while the upward kick is not. With respect to the design of the foil monofin, I'm a bit concerned that it does not present a much bigger resistive surface than my Speedo standard fins. Perhaps the coupling is a key point although I do not find that my feet separate much while dolphin kicking with my standard fins.

RE: Foil Body Motion?

Bill Sive — Sat, 15 Dec 2012 11:55:48 GMT

From the man himself. swim-links.blogspot.com/.../bob-gillett-explains-underwater-kicking.html Drills for your monofin Training with Monofins - Part 2 - YouTube

RE: Foil Body Motion?

Former Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2012 06:55:10 GMT

Thank you VERY much. Now I just need to convince Santa to bring me a Foil Monofin. Happy Holidays, Bill

RE: Foil Body Motion?

The Fortress — Sat, 15 Dec 2012 02:03:36 GMT

Thank you VERY much. Now I just need to convince Santa to bring me a Foil Monofin. Happy Holidays, Bill There are two schools of thought on dolphin kicking. There is the Gillette school -- kick on your side, big amplitude undulation. And there is the Brett Hawke school -- kick on your back with fast compact SDKs. Personally, I subscribe to the latter, but it likely depends on the particular swimmer and their body type. I also really dislike the Finis Foil monofin. I ordered it and promptly returned it. Because it is so floppy, there is not much benefit over using stiffer long blade fins, IMO. I prefer the Finis Shooter monofin or long blade fins for dolphin kicking (and I do a LOT of it). YMMV