Unsolicited Advice

RE: Unsolicited Advice

orca1946 — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 07:07:04 GMT

Sooner or later someone mentions that I coached 34 seasons of H S sim teams & swimmers start to ask ME to look at their stroke/turns/starts !!! :worms:

RE: Unsolicited Advice

Former Member — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 06:40:44 GMT

RE: Unsolicited Advice

habu987 — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 02:33:21 GMT

I already posted this in the "stereotypes" thread. I'm not training with a team right now. I usually utilize open swim hours at my gym. As such, I have a lot of exposure to people with poor technique. I never offer unsolicited advice. I think doing so would be presumptuous and even rude. However, it kills me when I see someone with a strong work ethic who clearly enjoys swimming but never, ever gets one lesson on technique. There are many people like this at my gym: they are generally fit, show up every morning at 5:30 and spend at least an hour doing laps. And yet, over the course of months or even years they never get any better. 30 strokes a length, head flailing, no shoulder roll, no flip turns... you know. No intervals, no stroke work, no drills, just mindless paddling from one end to the other. In ten minutes, I feel I could give some of them advice on stroke basics and a few drills that would immediately improve their efficiency. I would really enjoy this. There I am in the next lane over, swimming at roughly twice the pace they are with half the effort. I'm an approachable guy, being friendly, saying hello and no one ever has asked me for tips. Ever. I don't get it. I ran for years and would actively seek people out who could give me tips on stride, training or race tactics. Now that I'm demonstrating for the world to see a skill I clearly have, no one want some free advice? I don't get it. Swimming is in many respects just as technique intensive as any skilled-based sport like tennis or golf. People spend small fortunes getting some coaching there, why not with swimming? Maybe people just don't care to swim with proper technique. Maybe they don't know that there is such a thing as proper technique. However, I'm not sure I understand someone who forces themselves up at the crack of dawn for years to do anything who does not care whether or not they improve at that thing. It seems pointless and mind-numbingly boring. Several of the fitness swimmers I know are in this category. They set a goal of swimming X amount of laps or for X length of time, and that's it. Whether they're swimming Popov-esque freestyle or doing doggy paddle, it doesn't matter. Just get in and hit their goal. We've got a number of those swimmers on my team, triathletes and open water swimmers, in particular. Half the time I just cringe when I see their technique, or lack thereof. I don't think any of them have ever asked for my feedback or advice on their stroke, but I have made a point of giving them tips and advice when I'm coaching them, and sometimes when I'm swimming, too. Some of them pay no heed to anything I say, whereas others have really taken off with the advice I've given them. We've got one OW swimmer who joined the team this fall, and with the help of the advice I gave him, dropped about 45 minutes on a 10k swim this year from his lifetime best on that swim. This is all within the confines of swim practice, though. I generally don't swim enough on my own to have people ask me for help.

RE: Unsolicited Advice

Former Member — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:53:19 GMT

I coached for years and taught swim classes for the PE dept at a University and I have absolutely no desire to offer advice to anyone I see when I go to swim. I actually don't even pay attention to other people who are swimming. I am wondering why it would even occur to someone to offer a stranger advice. Is it to be helpful or for your own ego? No judgment, just wondering. Bingo. I was swimming once while rehabbing from shoulder surgery and got some unsolicited advice from a new guy at my pool who didn't know that prior to the previous 4 months I was the most regular swimmer at our Center. If my shoulder didn't hurt so bad I'd have hopped out of the pool and taken a swing. Instead I really had to bite my tongue and gave a terse response. Why would you ever presume the need of another swimmer to hear your advice for them?

RE: Unsolicited Advice

Former Member — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 11:39:09 GMT

I dont swim alot outside of our club practices so I dont have much opportunity to offer advice. During club practice, there is very little opportunity to offer advice to other swimmers - our coach sees to that. In other aspects of life, I dont offer unsolicited advice unless I see a dangerous situation. Its kind of a strange personal philosophy but I think that people that want help should ask for help. On the receiving end, I try always to be gracious and patient even when I dont want input as you never know who it really is that is talking to you.

RE: Unsolicited Advice

gobears — Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:23:41 GMT

Maybe they are just flirting? Possible, I guess, but still annoying! Hasn't happened for a few years... :)

RE: Unsolicited Advice

FindingMyInnerFish — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:29:03 GMT

True, but we've got plenty of swimmers on our team who're rather ornery and set in their ways, and they're generally quite resistant to advice regarding changing their stroke. :D Not me--except in rare instances, if I'm in a master's group, I WANT the coach to give feedback/advice! When on my own, it depends on context. But if I join a group workout supervised by a coach, I'm looking for something more than just a workout that I can do by myself.

RE: Unsolicited Advice

Former Member — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 10:11:54 GMT

Do you offer unsolicited advice to other swimmers at the pool? Fix their form? Give workout suggestions? Etc. Or do you keep your mouth shut? Mouth shut, I don't want to get killed. Seriously, it happened once over the last few years. A young sprinter was pushing a massive water wall whilst booking a set of fast 100m. But it's delicate matters. So I went to see him, asked if 1. He was currently being coached 2. Why he would keep his head so low whilst sprinting He answered in a very polite way, that a coach in the past had asked him to always keep his head low. I said that the head position kept lower was probably serving him very well at lower swim pace, but when sprinting, given that the flutter kick tends to lift the lower body fairly high, a neutral head position could be just fine. I mentioned that his stroke looked awesome (I lied there, but giving unsolicited advices comes at a price right?), but that if he felt that was I was saying was making sense, he could test other head position. He immediately did, and notice an improvement of 1.5sec per 100m, right there (from 1:02.5 down to 1:01). I now coach this guy, so it wasn't a bad move after all.

RE: Unsolicited Advice

Elaine Krugman — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 06:18:58 GMT

Maybe he is just flirting? The first guy who gave me the unsolicited advice definitely wasn't flirting. He seemed to want to act like the B.M.O.C. by giving unsolicited advice to others, as well. (My husband just reminded me when I brought up that story to him that this guy said he was an attorney. :bolt:) The other guy I am referring to doesn't flirt, either. The guy talks NON-STOP to anybody within earshot, whether you show interest or not. The guy doesn't:blah: stop :blah:talking:blah:. EVER. Those who know who I am referring to would agree with me on this, I'm sure. He is known for this, uhhh, characteristic. For those who haven't met him yet, come to the St. Nick's meet on December 15 and I will happily introduce you to him, then :bolt:!!!

RE: Unsolicited Advice

no200fly — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:46:15 GMT

No, it's not who (I think) you think. :rolleyes: But, I don't know his name and haven't seen him at a meet since 2010. Actually, the person who I think you are guessing (name withheld) has never given me any advice on my stroke. But, he does :blah: :blah: :blah: about everything else! And, this same person beats me when we have been in the same breaststroke heats; often in neighboring lanes. :bitching: Maybe he is just flirting?

RE: Unsolicited Advice

Karl_S — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:42:13 GMT

Reminds me of a few times I've had unsolicited weight training advice at the gym. It seems like some men like to give us womenfolk pointers (even when they don't seem particularly athletically competent themselves). The fact that they are men makes them experts, you know... In my experience it is absolutely impossible to go to a gym without receiving unsolicited advice. I'm not female and I don't think I look especially feminine so it doesn't appear to be directed at a specific gender, but some guys, (yes they are typically guys) apparently just can not resist offering unsolicited advice in the gym. What really pisses me off is, how can these guys think that they can tell me what I should be doing, when they don't even know what I am trying to accomplish? I actually really don't like working out in a gym for exactly this reason. I now do my dryland training in my basement alone or with my daughter. I will not be offended if she offers advice.

RE: Unsolicited Advice

no200fly — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:41:33 GMT

RE: Unsolicited Advice

gdanner — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 03:50:07 GMT

I swim with age groupers, so I never give unsolicited advice. If I think there's something worth mentioning, I'll talk to the coaches first and see what they think.

RE: Unsolicited Advice

habu987 — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 03:36:06 GMT

It's the job of a coach to give advice, so I wouldn't count that as unsolicited. True, but we've got plenty of swimmers on our team who're rather ornery and set in their ways, and they're generally quite resistant to advice regarding changing their stroke. :D

RE: Unsolicited Advice

philoswimmer — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 03:29:49 GMT

I've only ever given unsolicited advice to a swimmer outside of practice a couple times, and both times were after we'd been chatting for a while about swimming and our respective backgrounds in the sport. During practice, as a coach, I give it all the time. And when I'm swimming during one of our other coaches' practices, I'll continue to give advice to some of the swimmers if I see something. I can't think of anyone who's ever been ungrateful for the advice I give them, and most of 'em end up asking me for more advice later on or have me watch a stroke to make sure they're doing it right. It's the job of a coach to give advice, so I wouldn't count that as unsolicited.

RE: Unsolicited Advice

habu987 — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 02:54:28 GMT

RE: Unsolicited Advice

Elaine Krugman — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:44:23 GMT

It has never crossed my mind to offer advice unsolicited. Personally, I hate unsolicited advice. I have been asked for swimming advice, though, and I am happy to offer it when asked. But, I'll take it a step further: I hate unsolicited advice from somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about! I'll never forget this older male know-it-all Masters swimmer who sat down on the bench next to me at my first Masters meet, in 2010. He said he had been watching me swim breaststroke and proceeded to tell me how my pull was getting caught in the prayer position and how much it was slowing me down. (Throughout my races, he kept telling my husband the same thing...) Hmmm, interesting. Not only had my coach never mentioned it to me (because that was the one thing I WASN'T doing wrong in my stroke), but King Frog (aka former World Record Breaststroker Allen Stark) never mentioned that to me either, when he reviewed my videos here on the forums. Hmmm, Jim Rude never mentioned that either... Nor, did Ande... Or Woofus B. Loofus... Or Cokie Lepinski... You get the point. Mind you, there were plenty of things I needed to work on in my breaststroke, but, darn it, as often as I reviewed the video of my races at that meet, that was one flaw I never detected. Meanwhile, when I finally saw him swim breaststroke at another meet, it was pathetic. :afraid: Could he have been projecting??? :rolleyes:

RE: Unsolicited Advice

FindingMyInnerFish — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:37:50 GMT

I'm not expert enough to offer advice to most people, so I don't. Most people don't offer me unsolicited advice, although occasionally people do--one gent who was obviously a good swimmer, and we often swam in adjoining lanes. I think I may have approached him first, maybe admiring something like his turns. I forget. But when he offered advice, I listened. The one time I offered advice: lap swim was over, and open had started. When that happens, I usually, hang around and do some water running and such, maybe work a little on a stroke, something along those lines. One man was swimming across the width of the pool (okay since the lap lanes were taken down). He said he'd seen me swimming and that he hoped to be able to join the lap swim but didn't have the endurance. I'd watched him go back and forth and noticed that he'd start very fast and run out of steam, so I suggested he might try slowing down at the beginning. He did so and thanked me. It was clear he was swimming more easily. In that case, the advice grew out of a conversation--and maybe that's the best way to approach such an issue. I wouldn't presume to offer him advice unless we'd already begun talking. And similarly with the people who have advised me: it usually grows out of some conversation. I will listen and take note if a person seems to know what s/he is doing. I will be annoyed if it's someone who just wants to be one-up: one woman (who mostly water-walked) called to me at one point when I choked a little on some water after a hard 50, "you need to learn how to breathe." She tended to want to run things, supervise people, and it had nothing to do with really offering help. So I basically ignored her comment and kept on. Guess it depends on a person's approach.

RE: Unsolicited Advice

philoswimmer — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:33:48 GMT

Reminds me of a few times I've had unsolicited weight training advice at the gym. It seems like some men like to give us womenfolk pointers (even when they don't seem particularly athletically competent themselves). The fact that they are men makes them experts, you know... Yep. Just went skiing with a male friend yesterday, who gave me the absolutely wrong advice about how to plant my ski pole. (And I just confirmed it to make sure I wasn't losing my mind or that ski advice hadn't somehow changed when I wasn't looking). Meanwhile, his skiing was a complete mess. Now, not everyone who skis cares about ski technique, but as it happens, I do. But I just said, "Hunh, that wasn't how I was taught" and he said "Oh, well, I might be wrong about that." So, why open up your mouth if you really don't know what the f you're talking about? *sigh*

RE: Unsolicited Advice

Former Member — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:33:27 GMT

Why don't any of you swim at my pool? :-( Come swim at our pool anytime! We get all excited when a new person shows up and we have a chance to get acquainted. It's great when new people show up and are able to get coaching for the first time. Our coach is really enthusiastic and sets the tone for kidding, joking and giving advice. It sets up the new person as one who is enduring what we are, too, and they become one of us. Most of the time, newbies will ask things like "How do you do that drill again?" or something to that effect. If I were alone, I would feel weird if a total stranger came up to me and offered to give me advice, not only because it would kick me out of my concentration but also because it would feel intrusive and unexpected. On the other hand, someone saying hi and making a compliment first would open up the possibility of friendship and give-and-take conversation. When I'm swimming alone most people don't even make eye contact, so it seems like they're avoiding anything even remotely resembling advice. Depends where you swim and who you're with.

RE: Unsolicited Advice

Britt03 — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:00:13 GMT

RE: Unsolicited Advice

Elaine Krugman — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 06:41:26 GMT

let me guess...... :afraid: No, it's not who (I think) you think. :rolleyes: But, I don't know his name and haven't seen him at a meet since 2010. Actually, the person who I think you are guessing (name withheld) has never given me any advice on my stroke. But, he does :blah: :blah: :blah: about everything else! And, this same person beats me when we have been in the same breaststroke heats; often in neighboring lanes. :bitching:

RE: Unsolicited Advice

Britt03 — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 04:03:35 GMT

I'll never forget this older male know-it-all Masters swimmer who sat down on the bench next to me at my first Masters meet, in 2010. . let me guess...... :afraid:

RE: Unsolicited Advice

gobears — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:52:25 GMT

But, I'll take it a step further: I hate unsolicited advice from somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about! Reminds me of a few times I've had unsolicited weight training advice at the gym. It seems like some men like to give us womenfolk pointers (even when they don't seem particularly athletically competent themselves). The fact that they are men makes them experts, you know...

RE: Unsolicited Advice

philoswimmer — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:44:47 GMT

It has never crossed my mind to offer advice unsolicited. Personally, I hate unsolicited advice. I have been asked for swimming advice, though, and I am happy to offer it when asked.