How Do I Pace the 50 free?

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Former Member — Sat, 08 Dec 2012 17:04:46 GMT

For me, the 50 always has been, and always will be "balls to the wall". Keeping my head up high, I've always done 1 breath down and 1 breath back. Making sure to always focus on a hard strong kick.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

__steve__ — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 11:48:46 GMT

To be a great swimmer, it is vitally important to choose your parents well:bolt:.I made the wrong choice there, so it is a good thing I waited 40 yrs. I'll settle with trying to swim better, there will always be room for that, even if it means perusing ability to complete a 50 unpaced at full speed, and no breathing untill I touch

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Allen Stark — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 11:13:56 GMT

Probably not. Your mum and dad maybe didn't give you enough fast twitch muscle fibre. To be a great swimmer, it is vitally important to choose your parents well:bolt:.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Former Member — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 09:43:33 GMT

I have observed the same thing! I actually have nice high elbows when swimming freestyle at a moderate pace. I can even go under :30 from a push in 50 yards holding this "pretty" technique. But to go a :26 or so I have to rear back and throw all that out the window. I sacrifice technique for speed. Everytime I try to maintain "classic" freestyle I find myself unable to sprint to maximum. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong. Probably not. Your mum and dad maybe didn't give you enough fast twitch muscle fibre.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Former Member — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 15:08:18 GMT

Agreed on Rich's video contribution. What a great performance. Talk about a blow out. Interestingly, his race strategy is consistent with the no holding back approach. It's "full power Scotty" the whole way through.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Former Member — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 17:11:08 GMT

Very interesting discussion, especially since my workout partner, coach Mark Johnston of the Swim Dogs team, just did an analysis of my 50 free from Atlanta in 2010. He has this new software that is very cool. He normally does the recordings at his own pool and can do a simultaneous split screen of above and below water. He can also do a nice printout analysis and compare you to other swimmers. Unfortunately, he compares me to a swim by Ian Crocker. My analysis is very low tech as he had to get it off a youtube video. BTW, I don't breath during the 50 and my second 25 was .52 slower than my first (10.79 / 11.31). I go all out from the begining, but on my way back I keep trying to accelerate by kicking as hard as I can and keeping my head down. Check out the video. VRA Rich Abrahams 50 Free in Atlanta - YouTube If you're interested in getting an analysis like this you should try to contact Mark directly at swimdogs.netThat is a cool video and of course an amazing swim. Your turn seems to be where you gain the most against your competitors.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

mikeh — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:55:44 GMT

Very interesting discussion, especially since my workout partner, coach Mark Johnston of the Swim Dogs team, just did an analysis of my 50 free from Atlanta in 2010. He has this new software that is very cool. He normally does the recordings at his own pool and can do a simultaneous split screen of above and below water. He can also do a nice printout analysis and compare you to other swimmers. Unfortunately, he compares me to a swim by Ian Crocker. My analysis is very low tech as he had to get it off a youtube video. BTW, I don't breath during the 50 and my second 25 was .52 slower than my first (10.79 / 11.31). I go all out from the begining, but on my way back I keep trying to accelerate by kicking as hard as I can and keeping my head down. Check out the video. VRA Rich Abrahams 50 Free in Atlanta - YouTube If you're interested in getting an analysis like this you should try to contact Mark directly at swimdogs.net Rich thank you for that video and your discussion.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

mikeh — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:54:30 GMT

I know that when I do 50 free, it's to hell with technique. My best time spinning the arms is a good second better than I've been trying to do 'good' front crawl but I can't afford to take this approach on *** (or fly, for that matter). 'Them's the breaks'. I have observed the same thing! I actually have nice high elbows when swimming freestyle at a moderate pace. I can even go under :30 from a push in 50 yards holding this "pretty" technique. But to go a :26 or so I have to rear back and throw all that out the window. I sacrifice technique for speed. Everytime I try to maintain "classic" freestyle I find myself unable to sprint to maximum. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Former Member — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:51:50 GMT

Interesting topic. On the subject of whether or not the pace should be "all out" I think that's a red herring. Of course, for someone in reasonable shape, the entire 50 should be at full pace. However, the question is how best to swim at full pace. I have real trouble with this, particularly on breaststroke (my main stroke). Of my fastest 50s, the fastest swim is from a 50m event but the next few are all first 50 of the 100 and for quite some time these were my PRs. This is about technique and swimming freely from tension. To do that takes trust. 80%+ of my 50m races I don't trust the process enough, and bash something out as I'm not a 'natural' sprinter. Occasionally I do -most often when I'm not trying too hard. But, and back to my original point. This doesn't mean that you should go out at 90% and come back at 100%. It's about doing all 50m at the optimal tempo, technique and effort. That might actually be 99% of perceived effort (or 100, or 90, say). I think that what sets sprinters apart, apart from physiology/anatomy in itself, is that (probably because of it) they can hit their maximum speed without compromising technique. Most of the rest of us are, in some way, forced to compromise to some degree. If we do perfect technique we might lose some effort. If we max our effort, we might lose some technique. I know that when I do 50 free, it's to hell with technique. My best time spinning the arms is a good second better than I've been trying to do 'good' front crawl but I can't afford to take this approach on *** (or fly, for that matter). 'Them's the breaks'.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

mikeh — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:34:31 GMT

Hi Mike, what were your times 50, 1st 25, & 2nd 25 Hello Ande! Thank you for the suggested reading. Regarding the splits, last summer I did a 50 SCM from a push in 28.6. Splits were 13.8/14.8. That's actually pretty good for me. Often goimg from the blocks in a 50 yard pool my splits are closer to mid-11 to 13-ish, or low 11 and high 12. I appreciate your help!

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

mikeh — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:22:39 GMT

You're welcome. I only asked this because the 50 free was one of my events in college. I took one breath which was four strokes right after the turn. As an old man now :) this strategy is a recipe for a drop-off as you pointed out. That's why it might be best to stay 'oxygenated' by sneaking in one breath before you make the turn. Thank you, that's an interesting idea. I will give that as shot - I've been working lately on "sneaking" the breath.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

jaadams1 — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 01:03:29 GMT

YMMV, but this is how I do it: You definitely want to be last off the blocks. All that effort, straining, quad-burning, etc. from trying to splurge and burst off the blocks will really come back to haunt you those harrowing last 2.3 yards of the race. By all means, you've got to breathe every stroke. After all, Lezak caught that French dude in the 100 breathing every stroke; if it's good enough for him for a 100, it's got to be good enough for us Masters in a 50. Whatever you do, make sure to flub your turn. You can do this in any number of ways that I usually do: Flip too far away Flip too close Slip on your push off so you hit the lovely wall wave of water that Rowdy talks incessantly about in any Olympic race shorter than 400 meters Or, go for the triple-header and do all of the above Glide into the finish on the premise that you don't want to finish with a short, half stroke. It takes practice to master these things; I have swum the 50 free more than any other event in my Masters career and I'm finally into a groove where I do the above on just about every 50 free I ever race. You've got some deep, mindful, 10,000 Malcolm Gladwell hours of focused practice ahead of you ... but you can do it! Absolutely AWESOME!! :lmao: This is just funny -- I know you're speaking from the heart - kinda. I love the part about Rowdy and the wave of water. I also love Rowdy's comments about how the swimmer has no :censor:'n idea where the swimmer is to their non-breathing side as well. :D I'm always able to keep track of where people are in my races, (left right front back) In seriousness, for a 50, don't follow any of PWB's advice (for this thread), though he usually is speaking the truth.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Former Member — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 16:43:07 GMT

Now on the other hand, one thing I immediately need to work on is my reaction - it sucks: too much going on in my head like, Should I breath now or in the air? :blah: or more recently, Was that the horn that just went off while I'm still on the block pondering this?:bitching::censor: : I've debated when to take my last breath on the block, and think I've cracked it. Once everyone is on the blocks and looking like they are ready, take a very deep breath, and get into the race start position. Then focus on nothing but the gun/bleep. Nothing else but reaction, not breathing, not the turn ahead... just when to explode off the block. Everything should be tensed - hands on the front of the block, feet and legs ready to push off, ideally with a backboard. In theory as the 50 free is so short we shouldn't need to breathe AT ALL. Reality is most masters will take a couple of breaths, maybe more, but the benefits of a good reaction outweigh a few more seconds of breathing, especially when you are stationary at the time. I'm down to a consistent 0.6 reaction time so its working for me.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Former Member — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 12:59:20 GMT

Actually the research I saw said the dive is 2 sec faster than a pushoff and one sec faster than diving from the deck. Kirk's point about turning to the feet and finishing to the touch is relevant there though. I thought I saw the same article somewhere too. And yes Kirk's point explains how a finish to the touch shaves off time on the last lap. A starting block dive + foot touch = a push off and hand touch (+ .50 seconds)

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Allen Stark — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 12:25:32 GMT

I think the key is to go as fast as you can efficiently go.You don't want to "spin your wheels" but you don't really want to start slowly either. If you find you are slowing down at the end of a 50,you probably need to do more lactic acid tolerance sets.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Former Member — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 11:42:24 GMT

Not everyone says all out on the entire 50: www.nytimes.com/.../13freestyle.html

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

ande — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 11:07:17 GMT

Hi Mike, what were your times 50, 1st 25, & 2nd 25 thanks for mentioning MY SFF Tip 177 Split Differentials for the 50 Free Short Course On 50 yard freestyle split differentials, Top sprinters are 0.5 or less & the very best are 0.25 to 0.40 If you're at 1.5, somethings wrong. Part of it could be hand timing error. I wish masters meets had electronic timing at both ends. Maybe you're swimming too hard on that 1st 25. you could improve your turn, push off, streamline, kick & break out. it's breathing, Hard to say sight unseen. I'd need to watch you sprint Part of getting your splits right is perfecting all the high speed swimming skills. Right now my sprint free feels terrible and I need to do more fast 15's, 25's & 50's with rest do fast 50's where you vary the effort like 90/95 or 95/100 you want a fast turn, a great connection, a hard push off under your draft & a skinny streamline. here's a few more related SFF Tips: Tip 03 very fast Kickers Tip 10 Start with Starts Tip 12 Correct Splitting Tip 31 Get Strong Tip 35 Improve Your Turns Tip 71 Sprint Training Tip 89 Training for 25 Tip 99 Make a few Practices that are like Meets Tip 135 The Formula for Kicking Faster Tip 165 Build a Better Boat Tip 173 Crocker's Track Start Tips Tip 248 Hit Your Targett Splits Tip 272 Anything YOU do and measure IMPROVES Tip 335 Build a Fortress of Speed & Strength Correct Splitting

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Patrick W. Brundage — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 10:49:35 GMT

I'd like to access your wisdom...how do you swim the 50?YMMV, but this is how I do it: You definitely want to be last off the blocks. All that effort, straining, quad-burning, etc. from trying to splurge and burst off the blocks will really come back to haunt you those harrowing last 2.3 yards of the race. By all means, you've got to breathe every stroke. After all, Lezak caught that French dude in the 100 breathing every stroke; if it's good enough for him for a 100, it's got to be good enough for us Masters in a 50. Whatever you do, make sure to flub your turn. You can do this in any number of ways that I usually do: Flip too far away Flip too close Slip on your push off so you hit the lovely wall wave of water that Rowdy talks incessantly about in any Olympic race shorter than 400 meters Or, go for the triple-header and do all of the above Glide into the finish on the premise that you don't want to finish with a short, half stroke. It takes practice to master these things; I have swum the 50 free more than any other event in my Masters career and I'm finally into a groove where I do the above on just about every 50 free I ever race. You've got some deep, mindful, 10,000 Malcolm Gladwell hours of focused practice ahead of you ... but you can do it!

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

__steve__ — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 10:28:55 GMT

One thing that helped me drop 2+ seconds in one year for the SCM 50fr was avoiding 50m of 50fr equivalent race pace several months out. I would take the proposed 50 pace (or faster) and break it up in 25s with more than enough rest to do about 10 ea. This helped me feel the pace enough to not think about it while racing I would also do the same set on a tighter interval which resulted in a pace slightly closer to the 100 (but not quite as slow). This year I felt no need to pace, the swimming portion felt like autopilot ( one breath out and 2 in). Another thing I worked on was the start. In 2012 I probably practiced over 150 from the block and another 200 from the side of pool when no blocks were available. Now on the other hand, one thing I immediately need to work on is my reaction - it sucks: too much going on in my head like, Should I breath now or in the air? :blah: or more recently, Was that the horn that just went off while I'm still on the block pondering this?:bitching::censor: With all this said, my 50 free is now only several tenths slower than Chris's first 200 free split:applaud:

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Chris Stevenson — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 10:27:59 GMT

Interesting discussion of what I half-wondered was a joke based on the thread title. :) It seems to me that a 50 LCM sprint is a somewhat different beast than 50 SCY or 50 SCM even though many people here seem to be conflating the two (I think only Eaglesrest noted some differences). I'm no expert but: underwaters, breakout and turns are obviously critical in the short course versions, and pacing is much less important (it is maybe better to think of the event as two back-to-back 25s). I've never come close to dying in 50 SCY/SCM and pacing is much more about technique (not spinning your wheels) in those events. But in LCM the pool can get to be pretty long by the end, conditioning becomes a little important that last third of the pool length.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Former Member — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 10:03:02 GMT

Thanks for the question! I take one breath for a 50 yard freestyle. I will say this, my training until recently has been very race-pace oriented, without a lot of aerobic base "underneath" so to speak. I've recently gone on an aerobic kick for the past several months, and I'm curious what that might do when I switch to race pace training next February or so. Perhaps the elite sprintes bring the 50 home so fast because they have such a sound aerobic base, and I do not. I'm not sure the aerobic energy system really comes into it on a 50 yard bash. You are principally using your anaerobic (ATP) energy systems, depending on how long the 50 yard sprint takes you of course. There is a good article here, on energy systems used during different stages of a race: www.brianmac.co.uk/energy.htm While you shouldn't really hold back, certainly not a 50 yard sprint, I do believe it's possible to 'die' on a 50M sprint. If swimmers didn't slow down on a 50 then the race would be decided at 25M, especially LC, but how many races do we see where swimmers lose it in the last 10M? If you tense up and absolutely bash the first 25, like you are swimming a 25 sprint only (eyeballs out), then depending on your own conditioning, those last 10M can hurt like hell. I know, I've experienced it a few times. The key is to get out fast but under control. Don't feel like you're straining until the last 10M. Some elite track sprinters 'die' on the 100M and they are only running for

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

smontanaro — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 09:55:55 GMT

I'll suggest one other reason to not to swim all out. My stroke technique breaks down at high effort (not necessarily when exhausted, just when trying to swim "too fast"). I'm still working on that. It's possible that at 92% effort you might actually swim faster than at 97% effort if your stroke technique suffers a bit with the increased effort. Given the density of water I doubt it takes much of a form break to negate any increase in effort, especially at high output.

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Rich Abrahams — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 08:31:38 GMT

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Former Member — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 08:27:47 GMT

On 50 yard freestyle split differentials, Top sprinters are 0.5 or less & the very best are 0.25 to 0.40 If you're at 1.5, somethings wrong. Part of it could be hand timing error. I wish masters meets had electronic timing at both ends. I've heard its said that a dive provides about a one second drop in time versus a push-off. In theory the elite sprinters who split the second lap almost as fast as the first are actually swimming faster on the way back! That seems plausible but unusual travel at a higher rate of speed from the turn to the touch pads than from the blocks to the turn. Back to Mike's first post...assuming the dive gives a full one second advantage....a 1.5 second drop-off means that the second lap was only .50 slower than the first. That's really not so terrible. It's just not elite!

RE: How Do I Pace the 50 free?

Former Member — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 07:22:15 GMT

I would say you don't want to get pace and rate mixed up. Too high of a rate and you could run into spinning wheels, etc as people are saying but imo this is not the same as pace. To me, pace is simply the speed you're going in relation to your maximum. In a 50 free, you should always be going your maximum speed. Whatever stroke rate and kick rate gets you there...