I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

savaden — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:08:34 GMT

So I have recently over a period of time gone through the process of learning flip turns. Here is my experience. I can do an open turn just as fast as a flip turn. Really. I get a better underwater push off the wall with a good flip turn though. For a long time I did not want to do flip turns and lose that breath. I also have to breath out during the turn and had a fear of running out of air. It's true. I started doing flip turns when doing kick drills on back with fins. This gets you around a lot quicker. There is therefore an incentive and less worry about having enough air. I started out just practicing a somersault in the middle of the pool, just to turn over, with arms out to the side, and stay straight. It's OK to do this at the wall. Whatever works. I gradually incorporated more flip turns as I felt good about it. Sometimes if I am late, or off time breathing, it is just easier to do an open turn. No problem, see 1. After some practice and getting comfortable with it, say work up to an 800 with all flip turns. Then refinements help. The flip turn article in Swimmer magazine helped. Thinking about flipping straight over instead of sideways helps. Do flip turns on backstroke and then add to freestyle. In the end, there are lots of ways to get around and good form just comes with practice and a little knowledge.

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

orca1946 — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 12:49:49 GMT

Does he/you try to use the hands ,palms down , at the hips as the head drops & pull hard ,up & to the face to aid in the flip moon?

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

Michael Heather — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 11:06:14 GMT

You don't say how old the swimmer is. Since there is a problem completing the flip, it may not be mechanics, but age or negative experience in the past. I had a brother in law that I could not teach to dive into the pool, found out later that he wore a scuba mask in the shower. You might have a conversation with the swimmer and find out how he feels about the experience of swimming overall. Once he knows you are listening, he may try new things (like a flip turn) without any resistance, either overt or subliminal.

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

TomK3 — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:06:24 GMT

I had great turns in high school when I never thought about what I was doing, and the more I think about the mechanics since I returned to swimming, the worse they get :)

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

aztimm — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 05:18:06 GMT

If it's pre-competitive anyway... why not give the option of open turns; and coach them on an effective open turn? I did open turns for years and just taught myself flip turns because I've only started taking my swimming seriously in the last couple of years. As the student becomes a stronger swimmer and wants to swim competitively, the flip-turn will be easier to coax out of him/her. I think this is important. I learned to swim as a kid, but never took it seriously until I was in my 20s. I learned flip turns when I was 22. For a while I really wanted to do it, I expended way too much energy thinking about it, would see little kids doing them effortlessly, and it all just frustrated me. I took a break from those, learned/cleaned up the other strokes, and the flip turns just kind of happened when I wasn't trying so hard. Maybe just skim over flip turns for now, and revisit them every now and then.

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

mcnair — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 03:51:57 GMT

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

Kevin in MD — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 03:07:59 GMT

Swinging kickboards out to his side as he initiates the maneuver has rarely helped. I coach adult onset swimmers in flip turns every year. I can't picture what your are saying with the kickboards. I start with a noodle, the person is laying face down on the surface. They are holding on to the noodle at hip height underneath them. They push into the water with their hands as they hold the noodle and over they go. Most people seem to get hung up on this stage until we work on it with the noodle to show them where the leverage comes from. I seem to remember that USMS swimmer had this sequence published a while back.

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

antca271 — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 06:39:48 GMT

I was never good at flip turns as a kid, but re-taught myself to do them as an adult. My "aha" moment came when I started thinking of it as leading with my head through the turn, rather than my arms. I just thought, "arms loose by sides, tuck chin to chest" - with momentum that should flip you over, details of form can be worked on later. Also, since your student is new to turns...could water up the nose be an issue? I used to have problems with that, and in trying to get the turn (and the feeling of drowning) over with, I would end up flailing my arms around. I found that humming a song (I used the national anthem) during turns solved the problem almost immediately, it helped me to breathe out my nose steadily and without panicking. Don't have to do that anymore, but it was really useful at the time :) .

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

Former Member — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:27:33 GMT

You could have your student swim towards the middle of the pool and then flip. Sometimes new swimmers tend to be leery of slamming their feet into the gutter. Once there's no wall to be worried about, the tumble action becomes more and more second nature. Then your student can take their new found skill and move onto the wall. With trial and error they can figure out exactly when to roll into the flip. I've always taught my kids to use their leading hand as the guide to judge the proper distance between their head and the wall. When the stretched out arm gives an idea of how close they are, they can pull it towards their torso and use that energy to help initiate the flip.

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

ViveBene — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:37:47 GMT

That may well be too much detail. Away from wall: get hips over the head. That's it. Refine later. :) So I've been a pre-competitive swim coach since May now. I love it! However, I have a student in one of my lower level classes who is really struggling with learning flipturns. No matter what I suggest or what approach I take, class after class, he is rarely able to progress to doing half of a somersault, let alone a full somersault (which he has never done). I tell him to tuck his chin on his chest, keep his head straight, hands and arms at his side, legs up to chest in cannon ball, but no matter what, he really struggles to get his head and upper chest down away from the surface of the water, and then his legs straighten out behind him and it's all over. Swinging kickboards out to his side as he initiates the maneuver has rarely helped. What are your suggestions? I am stumped. :sad:

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

Former Member — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:26:54 GMT

He's very new, so not very fast yet. Right now, we're just trying to master the somersault, then we'll tackle pushing off the wall for the complete flipturn movement. Thanks for the links! And flippers- what an excellent idea! Why didn't I think of that?

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

Former Member — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:22:39 GMT

How fast a swimmer is he? I find most people who have trouble flipping over aren't swimming fast enough to have enough momentum to complete the flip turn. Make sure he doesn't slow down going into the wall and wearing flippers should help. goswim also has a series of videos on how to learn how to do a flip turn which might be helpful: Swimming - Turns - Freestyle Flip Turn Step #1 - YouTube Swimming - Turns - Freestyle Flip Turn Step #2 - YouTube Swimming - Freestyle Flip Turn Step #3 - YouTube Swimming - Turns - Freestyle Flip Turn Step #4 - YouTube Swimming - Turns - Freestyle Flip Turn Step #5 - YouTube

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

Former Member — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:17:46 GMT

That is a good suggestion. For a few classes every session, we all get in the water with the students. Everyone except me, however, because I am hearing impaired and need to wear aids to hear. My struggling student started the session late, after he could've been helped by one of the other instructors in the water.

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

Former Member — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:15:49 GMT

What if you stand beside him in the water and actually turn him over?

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

ourswimmer — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 06:03:05 GMT

I tell him to tuck his chin on his chest, keep his head straight, hands and arms at his side, legs up to chest in cannon ball, but no matter what, he really struggles to get his head and upper chest down away from the surface of the water, and then his legs straighten out behind him and it's all over. Get him to think "flip," not "somersault." I don't bring "legs up to chest in cannon ball" at all, and I doubt I'd get around if I did. I bring my head to my knees by bending sharply at the hips while my legs are still straight, and bend the knees to bring the feet toward the backside only as I am already well on the way to being upside-down. Abs initiate the movement, with some assist from hip flexors for an especially snappy turn. I also don't keep my hands at my sides. I bend my elbows to bring my hands to my head at the same time as I am bending at the hips to bring my head to my knees. People with really tight hamstrings probably have a lot of trouble with flip turns. Can your student bring his head to his knees with his legs more or less straight when he is standing or sitting? I don't remember learning flip-turns, but I did teach my dad to do them. We started, as quicksilver suggests, by swimming to the middle and flipping there until he understood how to go over rather than just straight down.

RE: I have a student who is struggling with flipturns!

Rob Copeland — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 04:42:02 GMT

2 suggestions 1) The easiest - Every swimmer does not need to do flip turns. For fitness swimmers the focus should be on swimming, flip turns are a bonus. Teach the swimmer good open turns (low to the water, streamline…) 2) Flip turn drill using lane lines– a. Have the swimmer perpendicular to a lane line, holding the lane line hands close together, palms up and in a streamline position on the surface b. The swimmer pulls himself over the lane line, whilst kicking and continues until his hands, still holding the lane line, are at his side c. At this point the swimmer flips (chin tuck…) while still holding onto the lane rope d. The swimmer should end up on his back with arms extended overhead in somewhat of a streamline position I find this turn drill helps swimmers who have a tendency to flail their arms as they turn and don’t get their arms up and streamlined before pushing off.