Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

DeniseMW — Tue, 15 Jul 2014 11:09:21 GMT

Very interesting thread on alternative exercise. I'm considering yoga because when I took a class this weekend, my Achilles and the back of my legs were really stiff all the way up from my calves to my hamstrings. I'm also taking a class that builds you up to a 5k, though I probably will not do it running, more like fast walking. Thanks, Swimosaur. This is a great thread with lots of information. Especially about the many benefits of drinking beer.

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Celestial — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:00:01 GMT

Wow - that was awesome! Thanks for doing the research! So, basically, I'm really glad I play tennis on the side. I was watching Dr.Oz the other day (at work, no less, in the patient lobby!) and they were showing some interesting squats that didn't look too hard, so maybe I should add that in, as well. I was thinking about this this morning as I was swimming along, and I starting thinking - you know, water resistance, Bowflex resistance - resistance can NOT be the same as weight bearing. However, the benefits of resistance is usually less injury, and of course, it does build strength. I heard this morning that (of course) bicycling is also not weight bearing, which I hadn't thought of - so the triathletes - those animals - have definitely got it going on, at least in this arena.

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Former Member — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 09:44:24 GMT

This is really worrisome. Do you happen to know if using a Bowflex rather than actual weights, would count as "weight bearing" exercise? I am not a medical professional, nor even a medical librarian, but I thought this was an interesting question and did some quick searches. The only answer I could find specifically regarding Bowflex is from a June 2002 issue of Shape Magazine (so not scholarly, but the answers are from experts, with affiliations given - and obviously not very recent) - here's the relevant passage: Q: Will home-gym equipment such as Bowflex help prevent osteoporosis as well as using free weights or gym machines does? A: It is not the type of equipment that will determine whether a workout ultimately has the necessary bone-strengthening benefits, but rather the angle of the exercises you perform and the amount of resistance you work against. To achieve significant increases in bone mineral density at the hip and spine — where fractures most frequently occur later in life — you need to supplement machine exercises with squats, preferably performed with free weights, says Victoria Jaque, Ph.D., director of the clinical exercise physiology lab at the University of Southern California. Some home machines such as Bowflex allow you to perform squats against resistance, but the bone-density benefits of this type of equipment have not been tested. Leg presses, which you can perform on home or gym weight machines, work the same muscle groups (the thighs and buttocks) as squats do, but since they are performed in a seated or reclining position, they do not place enough stress on the hip or spine — where it's needed most — to improve bone health. “We often have women in our resistance-training studies perform squats to better load the hip,” Jaque says. “We also suggest this in combination with impact activities such as jumping.” Jaque recommends supplementing your strength workout with a set of 50 jumps two or three times a week. Jumping up and down will provide stress at the hip. (A 1998 British study published in the Journal of Bone Mineral Research found that jumping 50 times six days a week for five months increased bone density in the femur by 2.8 percent for premenopausal women. However, postmenopausal women did not benefit from jumping.) When you perform squats and other strength exercises, be sure to use enough weight that your muscles fatigue at no more than eight repetitions. If you use less resistance, you are not likely to gain significant bone mineral density. Even if you perform eight repetitions to fatigue, it typically takes women nine to 12 months of consistent training to increase their bone mineral density by 1.5 percent. Some researchers recommend lifting even heavier weights periodically. “You need to be down in the three- to five-repetition range once a week or once every 10 days,” says William Kraemer, Ph.D., a kinesiology professor at the University of Connecticut in Storrs. Kraemer's recent research, not yet published, suggests that by alternating these heavy workouts with more moderate and light lifting sessions, women ages 20–35 can achieve bone-mineral-density gains of 3 percent over six to 12 months. The 8-minute WORKOUT. (2002). Shape, 21(11), 110. If you expand the search to a more general resistance training, which is what I am guessing Bowflex would be categorized as, you find a lot more stuff. It seems like the earlier women start doing this, the better, and that generally men have a better increase in BMD from such exercise - in fact at least one review article (Martyn-St James, M., & Carroll, S. (2006). Progressive High-Intensity Resistance Training and Bone Mineral Density Changes Among Premenopausal Women: Evidence of Discordant Site-Specific Skeletal Effects. Sports Medicine, 36(8), 683-704.) cites conflicting evidence regarding the benefits for women. :dunno:

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Celestial — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 04:05:17 GMT

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Former Member — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 15:11:53 GMT

I think we should toast ekw in Auburn! :D :cheerleader: :chug: For medicinal purposes only, of course. :agree:

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Former Member — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 15:11:09 GMT

And so it becomes part of the folklore in masters swimming ... Harperfish wrote (Jan/Feb 2013 Swimmer, p. 35), To be sure, it is more accurately a true incentive to drink beer, but we won't quibble. Well done, ekw! The next time we order beer, if anyone dares look at us sideways, we can cite the cross-training article in our flagship publication, which cites a thoroughly researched internet reference, which cites scholarly, peer reviewed publications, which nobody has actually read. Cheers! :chug: I've written (allegedly) scholarly, peer-reviewed articles and I can't honestly say I've read even the ones I've written! But the big question is... does this publication go on my CV?

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Elaine Krugman — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 10:19:48 GMT

For medicinal purposes only, of course. :agree: Sure, ekw; whatever you say... :D

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Elaine Krugman — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 06:01:00 GMT

And so it becomes part of the folklore in masters swimming ... Harperfish wrote (Jan/Feb 2013 Swimmer, p. 35), To be sure, it is more accurately a true incentive to drink beer, but we won't quibble. Well done, ekw! The next time we order beer, if anyone dares look at us sideways, we can cite the cross-training article in our flagship publication, which cites a thoroughly researched internet reference, which cites scholarly, peer reviewed publications, which nobody has actually read. Cheers! :chug: I think we should toast ekw in Auburn! :D :cheerleader: :chug:

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Swimosaur — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 11:28:42 GMT

Denke M. Nutritional and health benefits of beer ... And so it becomes part of the folklore in masters swimming ... Harperfish wrote (Jan/Feb 2013 Swimmer, p. 35), And now for something completely different! Commenter Ellen Wilson expanded an esoteric thread on the health benefits of beer, and she posted several scientific (!) studies in its defense (fnally, a true incentive to go online). On this method, USMS offers no comment. To be sure, it is more accurately a true incentive to drink beer, but we won't quibble. Well done, ekw! The next time we order beer, if anyone dares look at us sideways, we can cite the cross-training article in our flagship publication, which cites a thoroughly researched internet reference, which cites scholarly, peer reviewed publications, which nobody has actually read. Cheers! :chug:

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

lauraval — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 07:23:56 GMT

As to the "Val Method" of cross-training, yes I don't do any of those activities listed, but could you consider some things I do in the pool as cross-training? For example, almost daily we pull about 1500 with paddles and a tube around our ankles. We also do vertical kicking with our arms over our heads. Cross-training? I never thought I needed to run to be a good swimmer. Besides, I hate to run.

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

jessicafk11 — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 05:49:54 GMT

Cycling (similar to spinning), yoga, walking and running, tap dance, and I've added tennis. Wish I could say weight training since I am sure I need it!

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Awf1975 — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:22:38 GMT

I do not swim as much as i used to due to my schedule. I do cross train using running, biking, and weights. I have found that engaging in any fitness program haphazardly is counterproductive. Cross training has reduced my risk of overuse injuries while maintaining my athleticism. I tend to swim about 2-3 times a week which is a far cry of what i used to do. more quality yards instead of junk yardage. the benefits of cross training have also helped me build more mental stamina in the pool. swimming endless laps is a mind game.

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

orca1946 — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 11:57:46 GMT

I swim on m - w & sun lift & cardio on t -th -fri.

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Former Member — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 06:43:48 GMT

Cross-training means the exercise is intended to improve or supplement your swimming. Hmmm... Various times a major motivation for me to swim was the fitness helps me dance better (swing dance, contra dance, in the younger days modern and African). Swimming is mostly crosstraining. I dance for fun. So because I swim to dance better and dance for fun, I shouldn't list "dance" as crosstraining? Seems backward. I don't own a car so I walk and cycle a lot. That "so" in this case implies intention. A major reason to avoid car ownership is that getting around by walking and cycling keeps me fit far more consistently than the on-again-off-again regimens that I've had in swimming (or any "exercise" program). Getting around in a car would just make me old. What would I do? Ride to the Gym? (HAHAHA) Even in the last 3 or 4 months, when I've been averaging 4000 500 yards in the pool, I get more exercise doing other things. I do yoga just to do yoga. So of the five things I checked, three of them have nothing to do with swimming (except that they do, in fact, improve my fitness which affects my ability to swim. Sometimes dramatically.) Sometimes for the other two items - stretching and dryland calisthetics -I do to help my swimming. OTOH, I would still do those things with no swimming, and sometimes I do calisthetics during periods of time where I haven't been swimming much - instead of swimming. If I've been a couch potato for a few months, I usually hit the track with squat-thrusts, jumping jacks, jump rope and similar things. But it's because I haven't exercised, not to improve swimming. Sometimes I do those things because my swimming "fitness" is becoming so specific that it isn't improving my dancing, so I need to do calisthetics to cross train for fitness that I'm not getting through swimming. I had a conversation once with my boss about this, once. She said I probably wasn't fit because I don't work out. (I was going through a phase where I wasn't swimming regularly). If I rush to a dance by biking 8 miles from work, dance for a few hours, then bike 5 and a half miles home, it isn't a "workout." But it isn't sitting on the couch, either. It isn't a "workout" - but it's way more exercise than I get in a 2500 yard swim.

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Sojerz — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 05:52:46 GMT

I've used aerobic cross training to loose weight (45 lbs in about 1 year), improve aeraobic conditioning, keep training and competition interesting for me, and build my leg muscles. It's been primarly cycling (lots of spinning too), but some running as well (I've actually begun to enjoy running), although i think i still need to lose additional weight to feel like ive reached an ideal weight for running. My weight lifting has been on-again off-again and helped build the upper body muscles. Has cross training helped my swimming? Yes. If i used every cross training hour swimming, would i now be a faster swimmer? Yes. But, at least starting out in my relatively poor condition, i know that cross training quickly boosted base aerobic conditioning and increased the size and tone of my leg muscles appreciably. I don't think i would have made as much progress in the same time period if i tried swimming all of those hours, and perhaps would have lost interest. Trying something new and different has been important to me and fun, and I've been able to compete in pool meets, OW swims, triathlons, and a 5k run over the past year as a result of cross training and that provides motivation. It was a return to swimming that led me to try these other sports, and I think there are both mental and physical synergies that exist. Perhaps not as much so for the TT under 50 swimmer, but for the rest of us in middle-earth and/or over 50 who have begun to hear the clock ticking, cross training provides diversity and helps with the bucket list. So, i think there may not be a single answer that applies to every swimmer. :2cents:

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Former Member — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:13:02 GMT

An interesting study was done at Texas A&M University regarding bone mineral density in college athletes and the swimmers ranked the lowest! www.swimmingscience.net/.../bone-mineral-density-in-swimmers.html Although it might also be interesting to see how the swimmers' BMD compares with that of a non-athlete. Does swimming actally reduce BMD, or simply not increase it as much as other sports?

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Former Member — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 05:45:04 GMT

There's something to be said about health benefits outside of the pool regardless of what kind of effect they might offer towards swimming performance. Research has shown that impact sports are ideal for developing bone density which is something that swimming really lacks. That said, any kind of weight bearing activity whether it be running, tennis or lifting should really be encouraged. An interesting study was done at Texas A&M University regarding bone mineral density in college athletes and the swimmers ranked the lowest! This study demonstrated more discouraging results as the collegiate female swimmers had lower bone mineral density (BMD) during the preseason by 10-15% compared to all other sports with the largest difference in the lower body, pelvis and spine mineral density. In fact, their total body BMD of 1.121 g/cm2 puts them more than two standard deviations from the mean for their age, indicating a risk for osteoporosis. ...imagine if you are a Master's female swimmer who drinks a pot of coffee a day and while working 12 hours at her desk job....might as well call up Sally Fields and get some Boniva. www.swimmingscience.net/.../bone-mineral-density-in-swimmers.html

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

__steve__ — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 03:22:15 GMT

After a set of AFAP efforts from the block, my entire body feels like it has endured plenty of weight bearing activity.

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

aztimm — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:14:10 GMT

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Britt03 — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:03:59 GMT

I used to only swim and weightlift. I totally bulked up and switched out 2 of my 4 weight sessions to dryland sessions. Recently, I discovered that I can't motivate myself for the weightroom anymore so I picked up a power weightlifting class at the institution I teach swim lessons at. It's 60min of bar weightlifting and covers all muscle groups. I love it since it's more endurance lifting than going for heavy weights. It really helped become stronger and leaner at the same time. It's my death class of the week! I can't move for 3 days straight afterwards. In addition, since no more running for me after foot surgery and I got tired of dryland, I have picked up kickboxing classes. I love it as cross training since it's something totally different than swimming and the changes in speeds during the class really help me in the water I have the feeling.

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Elaine Krugman — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 11:16:19 GMT

Stop right there. ekw wins the game. If this deep, scholarly, and prize-worthy research is not mentioned in the Swimmer article on cross-training, it's an epic fail. :chug: +1! Three cheers for ekw! :cheerleader: :chug: Swimosaur, if ekw shows up to Auburn, we owe her one!

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Celestial — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 08:54:20 GMT

For me at least, my swimming has greatly benefited from participating in other activities. I certainly don't excel at them, but I don't excel at swimming either. Since I began doing things in addition to swimming, I've dropped a bit of weight, and every single swimming event has gotten better. Good for you!! :applaud::applaud::applaud: I think that my other sports definitely benefit from my swimming as well - I think that may be why I can get around on the tennis court better than a lot of my competitors! And my swimming has benefited from my tennis because tennis forces me to stretch and bend and move in ways that I generally would be too lazy to do on my own (i.e. yoga or other isometrics). It's not weight lifting, but I KNOW my forearm is stronger - you can SEE the muscle growth - and guess what - that helps the back half of my pull - something a distance swimmer values when they are so tired they can't make the arms go around any faster!! :D

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

__steve__ — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:20:04 GMT

Stretching/Yoga: Most stretching I do are through yoga poses. I find the achieved flexibility quite valuable and do it as a warm-up for weights or swimming, and sometimes to relax before bedtime. If my hamstrings are tight, my back can go out for no reason so I have to maintain a level of flexibility to function. Yoga also seems to improve my balance and control in the water. I don't actually go to yoga classes or understand the art per-say, I just do the poses (I'm a poser:D). Weights: On most days when swimming and weight lifting overlap I make one trip to do both. I copied Chris's approach by lifting first and it seems to work better this way. Swimming seems to drain my strength if done first, which defeats any weight lifting efforts. I try to avoid lifting for at least 48 hours prior to AFAP days, but it usually doesn't work out this way and results in a slight taper of speed

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

Former Member — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:07:28 GMT

I do a lot of cycling on my road bike. Basically I'm on my bike everyday. I also do bodyweight exercises like pushups/pullups etc.

RE: Cross Training Poll for USMS Magazine

knelson — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:44:08 GMT

I can easily burn up 9 hours in half a week exercising. Is this 9 hours in a half a week swimming, or doing other things, too? I'm right around where Patrick is. I'd say I average about 7 hours per week in the water. And--I'll admit it--it's got nothing to do with other time constraints why I don't swim more or do other exercising. That's just all the time I'm willing to spend on it.