How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member — Sat, 03 Nov 2012 16:46:09 GMT

Have a friend film you swimming, put it on youtube and ask folks to comment. Hi again. I have finally uploaded a video clip of me swimming here: http://youtu.be/iXQyLdR2eYg Appreciate any constructive feedback! NOTE: I apologize for the crappy iPhone quality - I had to ask one of my kids to do it, and I am just glad he did not drop the phone into the pool! :D Will upload better quality when I get the chance. If you can put up with watching the whole 2 minutes you should see all aspects of my stroke I reckon.

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 06:01:44 GMT

I think you understood the SDI concept very well. And it's bullet proof stuff, you can rely on that. Regularly, input new times and see how your SDI reacts. The ideal SDI for a Triathlete, especially a long distance specialist, clearly, is 1.06. So whenever you perform the caculations and it results into an SDI steeper than 1.1, you clearly need to flatten it, by working on long distance stuff. Likewise, if your SDI comes back in 1.04, or 1.05, like I sometimes see, then it means that you lack pure speed. For those curious enough to wonder what's under the hood, simple: SDI = Log(T1/D1) / Log(T2/D2) Where T = time and D = distance. 1 = first event and 2 = second event. As simple as that. Was created in the 80s by a very smart mathematician, Jean-Marie De Koninck, Ph.D, expert in statistics, analyst for french tv in most Olympic games. His concept was tested with his own swimmers (as he was also the founder of one of the most successful elite squad in Quebec) as well as against world wide results database. So far, the SDI remains the best fit to come up with an individual fatigue decay, in fact SDI stands for Sprint-Distance Index. It is head to head with the Critical Swim Speed concept as for issuing predictions over longer distances, but definitely has a serious edge over the CSS for predicting shorter distances, from 50 to 800m.

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 05:07:14 GMT

You ARE busy. Still if you can find a way to swim 3 1 - 1.5 hour practices per week and 1, 2 or 3 short practices, you'll be better off and likely to improve faster. It's also something you can do in spurts or as your goal approaches. The more you swim each week the more likely you are to reach your goal. Just a little 15 or 30 minute work out is better than nothing get in, warm up, do a few hard fast swims then leave. like 500 easy, then 12 x 50 odds FAST on :40 evens easy on 1:20 Watch youtubes and copy the technique of great swimmers Have a friend film you swimming, put it on youtube and ask folks to comment. Read Swim Faster Faster and Apply ideas from it ASK ANDE offers many ideas Here's my old blog with many workouts Excellent suggestions. Especially the YouTube one. Will try and get that uploaded asap. And the quicker workouts: Spot on. I may be able to fit these into my lunch break once or twice a week and that would be the answer. Thanks again!

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 05:03:44 GMT

There are various angles to answer your question, on of them is to first see if you have enough pure speed... Look at the following web page, choose the 2nd calculation method, input 15 flat for 1000m, it tells you how fast your 100m should be (sprint). www.arhy.org/swim-predict In this case, it tells you that your best 100m has to be at least 1:17, given an aerobic/anaerobic balance of 1.07 which is fairly flat (ie, calls for a good threshold development program). At 1:21 as your best possible effort over 100m, you are still short of pure speed. It seems that 16 flat would call for 1:22, again given an excellent aerobic development program. I'm assuming 16:45 (since you're being vague about your PB over a kilo). If it's the case, then it gives you an aerobic/anaerobic balance of 1.29, which is very steep (more that of a sprinter), which indicates either of these two things: 1. Your aerobic development program has lots of room for improvement 2. Your technique is somewhat quite flawed, thus preventing you from maintaining proper swim form, which translates into bad economy An SDI (aerobic anaerobic balance) of 1.29 (based on a 100m in 1:21 and a kilo in 16:45) indicates that you'd need 46sec flat over 100m in order to expect 15min over a kilo. So something is seriously wrong, probably once again at the technical level. So. I guess that all this would confirm that in your case, the balanced approach remains (and by far), your best path to success. You don't have enough speed, you may have a flawed stroke, and you haven't demonstrated that your aerobic development program is bullet proof. ** edit ** Your kilo is probably well below 17. I ran other calculations using 34m for 2k, and your SDI comes back in 1.07. If this data is real (accuracy is important here), then your aerobic anaerobic balance is already ideal, which means that by keeping the same coefficient, you'd only need to lower the 100m in 1:17 (go down to 1:15 for more safety ;-) in order to take this kilo down to 15. As simple as that. First off, thank you kindly coach. This is fantastic. Secondly, my priority clearly is that I need to get proper timing sorted (using my Casio wrist watch through foggy goggles) and get the real PB on these distances, then establish my SDI, check technique and optimize a training plan. FWIW: Today as part of the swim I tried to do 10x100 at 1:30 and two things became clear: I could NOT maintain the pace and ended up doing 5x100 at 1:45 only (though did almost 3k in training overall); I never swam more than 1:30 but just needed more breathers; my first 100m I did not really sprint but still came in just under 1:20; sincerely think I could perhaps hit 1:17 if I went all out. In summary, I think you are probably spot on: aerobic fitness and technique have lots of room for development/improvement.

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:03:48 GMT

you can do an advanced edit on your headline and correct it Fixed it! Thanks 1k in 15 minutes is holding 1:30 What kind of suit did you wear when you did it? Did you shave? I swam 1k in 16mins40something in an outdoor 50m pool (all the other times in the 25m indoor) and wearing just normal speedo bathers (aka "budgie smugglers" in Australia) I am not shaved on the body but my hair on the head is extremely short (and balding) :D how come you can only train 2 or 3 times per week I suggest that you increase your times per week to 3, 4, 5, or 6 times per week Suffice it to say I commute for 3+ hrs a day, work about 8-9 and have four young kids (and a wife!) at home. That said, I agree and if at all possible, I will up the ante. you want to improve the paces you can hold and how far you go in each practice how far do you average in practice now? what sort of paces do you hold on sets? you want to hit many different systems and mix up your training with sets do speed work do short rest sets 100's with 5 or 10 sec rest do long straight swims do test swims for 100, 200, 400, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000 & 4000 do a hard 50, 100, 200, 400, & 800 for time each weekYes - I have not timed my paces any more tbh but will do so. IMPROVE YOUR TECHNIQUE, correct any technique flaws Improve your kick Any hints on improving my technique without a coach or trainer? Thanks again, really appreciate all the advice.

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 06:41:25 GMT

Any hints on improving my technique without a coach or trainer? Thanks again, really appreciate all the advice. I beleive there are some DVD's on swim technique. Total immersion and other programs. That might actually work.

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 06:19:42 GMT

Hey experienced swimmers, really need your help; 40 year old dude here who only recently returned to swimming. Currently swim 100m in 1minute 21, 1k in under 17 minutes and 2k in about 34 minutes in a 25m pool without pushing myself too hard... Goal is 1k in 15 min in the shortish term - and I want to do a 4k OW swim in 11 months' time. There are various angles to answer your question, on of them is to first see if you have enough pure speed... Look at the following web page, choose the 2nd calculation method, input 15 flat for 1000m, it tells you how fast your 100m should be (sprint). www.arhy.org/swim-predict In this case, it tells you that your best 100m has to be at least 1:17, given an aerobic/anaerobic balance of 1.07 which is fairly flat (ie, calls for a good threshold development program). At 1:21 as your best possible effort over 100m, you are still short of pure speed. It seems that 16 flat would call for 1:22, again given an excellent aerobic development program. I'm assuming 16:45 (since you're being vague about your PB over a kilo). If it's the case, then it gives you an aerobic/anaerobic balance of 1.29, which is very steep (more that of a sprinter), which indicates either of these two things: 1. Your aerobic development program has lots of room for improvement 2. Your technique is somewhat quite flawed, thus preventing you from maintaining proper swim form, which translates into bad economy An SDI (aerobic anaerobic balance) of 1.29 (based on a 100m in 1:21 and a kilo in 16:45) indicates that you'd need 46sec flat over 100m in order to expect 15min over a kilo. So something is seriously wrong, probably once again at the technical level. So. I guess that all this would confirm that in your case, the balanced approach remains (and by far), your best path to success. You don't have enough speed, you may have a flawed stroke, and you haven't demonstrated that your aerobic development program is bullet proof. ** edit ** Your kilo is probably well below 17. I ran other calculations using 34m for 2k, and your SDI comes back in 1.07. If this data is real (accuracy is important here), then your aerobic anaerobic balance is already ideal, which means that by keeping the same coefficient, you'd only need to lower the 100m in 1:17 (go down to 1:15 for more safety ;-) in order to take this kilo down to 15. As simple as that.

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

ande — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 03:26:10 GMT

Any hints on improving my technique without a coach or trainer? Thanks again, really appreciate all the advice. You ARE busy. Still if you can find a way to swim 3 1 - 1.5 hour practices per week and 1, 2 or 3 short practices, you'll be better off and likely to improve faster. It's also something you can do in spurts or as your goal approaches. The more you swim each week the more likely you are to reach your goal. Just a little 15 or 30 minute work out is better than nothing get in, warm up, do a few hard fast swims then leave. like 500 easy, then 12 x 50 odds FAST on :40 evens easy on 1:20 Watch youtubes and copy the technique of great swimmers Have a friend film you swimming, put it on youtube and ask folks to comment. Read Swim Faster Faster and Apply ideas from it ASK ANDE offers many ideas Here's my old blog with many workouts

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 15:26:46 GMT

I recommend this page: www.swimsmooth.com/training.html

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Swimosaur — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:49:57 GMT

Currently you swim 1K in 17:00 minutes. Your pace is 1:42.0 per 100. You would like to swim 1K in 15:00 minutes. Your pace needs to be 1:30.0 per 100. Twelve seconds per 100 is a big drop. It will be a challenge. I suggest including sets like these into your workouts: 10 x 50 free on 1:00, target :45 per 50 5 x 100 free on 2:00, target 1:30 per 100 10 x 100 free on 2:00, target 1:30 per 100 5 x 200 free on 3:30, target 3:00 per 200 Other variations on the theme. The point is to train your body to swim 1:30 per 100, every time. If 1:30 is too aggressive at first, you might want to target 1:35 for a while until your conditioning improves. Gradually increase the distance, and decrease the rest, until you get within range of your goal. Then race! Work on technique, always. The more water resistance you avoid, the less work you have to do! If you watch elite distance swimmers, they always have some kind of pattern they execute on every length. Pay close attention to your number of strokes per length number of breaths per length stroke rate Find a pattern (some combination of swimming and breathing) that works well for your body, and allows you to swim sustainably, with every length exactly the same.

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:48:47 GMT

First, there was a line in medical aper about exercise progtrams taht said "SEdentary men in their earl;y forties who begin a regular exsercise program show measurable cardiac changes in as little as 6 weeks." I've mentioned this to my boss a couple of times. She's a seasoned anesthesiologist who always makes the point "They mean good changes." Keep it in mind - you can change your muscles, your nervous system, tolerance for pain, and your energetic metabolism easily in 5 weeks. You're rolling the dice if you do all-out 4 K after doing that. I can't say the best way, but a few years ago, I trained for a 3.6 k race from near-sedentary. The 100 yard training could probably use a different approach. Here's what I did. Stared with an easy 600 yard mixed stroke swim in the pool (Free, back, ***, kicking, no fly.). Worked on increasing distance 3 X per week until I was up to 4000 yards (about 6 weeks), then switched to one distance, one paced mile and an interval set -each with it's own one per week session. I spent another 6 weeks or so doing that - longer distances, faster miles, faster intervals. Last 3 weeks, I shortened and toughened the distances and upped the mile to 1.5 mile timed swims I could have done better with 1) more weeks 2) some stroke instruction. Typcially, my "distance" workout took me a bit longer than your 1.5 hours and the pacing and intervals took less time than that. I found I made faster progress when I gave up doing "days-in-a-row" workouts. YMMV. Good luck. Thanks a lot, will definitely try that training approach! Also, on your point about the good changes: Mate I have been actively back in the water for a good 8 weeks now and I can not believe how different I feel both physically and psychologically. :bliss: It is a profound change! The wife and even the kids are loving it and also keener on doing laps now. Crazy how easy it was to forget just how good swimming is - I hope I never forget it again!

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:38:44 GMT

What I have read suggests making steady, regular increases in mileage per workout. So start out at x or.x miles per workout and do that for a month. Then increase your distance by half a mile per workout and do that for a month. The third month increase your mileage by another .5 miles. I am doing the same approach; however, I am increasing at .25 miles a month to give my lazy joints a chance to adapt. Also, get into the open water whenever you have a chance. I found out the other day, I am a strong pool swimmer, but OW is a different playing field. Good luck!!! Absolutely makes sense. Will try to follow that pattern of gradually increasing distance and doing what Mick suggests.Thanks heaps! Must try to fit in some OW before the race. I have only limited experience of that and heard some scary stories from triathletes, especially about thrashing limbs in the beginning.

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

TRYM_Swimmer — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 09:35:18 GMT

Crazy how easy it was to forget just how good swimming is - I hope I never forget it again! Keep coming back here and we'll remind you! Good luck and let us know of your progress.

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 07:00:00 GMT

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

ande — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 03:02:20 GMT

you can do an advanced edit on your headline and correct it How do I train to achieve the 1k in 15 minutes? SWIM How do I prepare for a 4k open water swim? SWIM your current times are: 100m in 1minute 21, 1k in under 17 minutes 2k in about 34 minutes in a 25m pool without pushing myself too hard your Goal is to 1k in 15 min & a 4k OW swim in 11 months' time. you don't have a team or coach , squads, you only train 2-3 times a week for 1.5 hrs in a 25m pool you Have a kickboard and paddles 1k in 15 minutes is holding 1:30 What kind of suit did you wear when you did it? Did you shave? how come you can only train 2 or 3 times per week I suggest that you increase your times per week to 3, 4, 5, or 6 times per week you want to improve the paces you can hold and how far you go in each practice how far do you average in practice now? what sort of paces do you hold on sets? you want to hit many different systems and mix up your training with sets do speed work do short rest sets 100's with 5 or 10 sec rest do long straight swims do test swims for 100, 200, 400, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000 & 4000 do a hard 50, 100, 200, 400, & 800 for time each week IMPROVE YOUR TECHNIQUE, correct any technique flaws Improve your kick

RE: How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member — Sun, 30 Sep 2012 11:51:48 GMT

First, there was a line in medical aper about exercise progtrams taht said "SEdentary men in their earl;y forties who begin a regular exsercise program show measurable cardiac changes in as little as 6 weeks." I've mentioned this to my boss a couple of times. She's a seasoned anesthesiologist who always makes the point "They mean good changes." Keep it in mind - you can change your muscles, your nervous system, tolerance for pain, and your energetic metabolism easily in 5 weeks. You're rolling the dice if you do all-out 4 K after doing that. I can't say the best way, but a few years ago, I trained for a 3.6 k race from near-sedentary. The 100 yard training could probably use a different approach. Here's what I did. Started with an easy 600 yard mixed stroke swim in the pool (Free, back, ***, kicking, no fly.). Worked on increasing distance 3 X per week until I was up to 4000 yards (about 6 weeks), then switched to one weekly distance, one weekly paced mile and one weekly interval set. I spent another 6 weeks or so doing that - longer distances, faster miles, faster intervals. Last 3 weeks, I shortened and toughened the distances and upped the mile to 1.5 mile timed swims I could have done better with 1) more weeks 2) some stroke instruction. Typically, my "distance" workout took me a bit longer than your 1.5 hours and the pacing and intervals took less time than that. I found I made faster progress when I gave up doing "days-in-a-row" workouts. YMMV. Good luck.