tech suits and Ian Thorpe

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

orca1946 — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 01:09:20 GMT

We had back stroke flags in H S in 1960!

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

Michael Heather — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:10:20 GMT

Mike, You hit the nail on the head. Thanks! But it wasn't me.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

__steve__ — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 07:31:01 GMT

2000 FS 1 01 48.18 10 49.68 25 51.74 2004 FS II 01 48.17 10 49.08 25 49.73 2005 01 48.12 10 49.28 25 49.95 2006 01 48.57 10 49.09 25 49.72 2007 Speedo Pro 01 47.91 10 48.72 25 49.35 2008 LZR (there was quite a drop when LZRs came out) 01 47.05 10 47.77 25 48.43 2009 LZR Jaked Arena 01 46.91 10 47.78 25 48.37 2010 back to Jammers (then a significant increase when they went away) 01 47.98 10 48.54 25 48.83 2011 01 47.49 10 48.24 25 48.69 2012 01 47.10 10 48.19 25 48.58 This chart puts it in perspective. Anyway, I think they should at least allow men to wear legskins.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

ande — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 03:43:24 GMT

I think if the suits were still around his "come back" would have been just as unsuccessful. His failure to earn his spot was probably timing, level of conditioning, and Australian media pressure The Aussies have some great swimmers, with our infinite wisdom from 20/20 hindsite indicates Thorpe might not have stayed as fit as he could have during his retirement and he probably started his comeback too late & probably would have benefitted from beginning his comeback 6, 9, 12, 18 or 24 months sooner. As far as the suits go, in 2000, Thorpe competed in a full body suit that went from wrist to ankle, think it was an addidas suit. somewhere I read or heard he wore another suit beneath his competition suit but have no proof. (suit stacking) At the 2008 pelligrini wore 2 suits in the finals of her 2 fr Pic after race There were many generations of body suits, each offering benefits and improvements and right when a new generation lauched was a prime opportunity to break records. The swimming community was most alarmed by the last 2 generations of suits, when rubber coated suits came out, (2007 to 2008) Swimmers seemed to break more records & win more races in LZRs, Jakeds & Arena suits. Those suits offered floatation, compression, and a better surface than skin they were last worn LCM in the 2009 Worlds in Rome & Dec 2009 for SCM at Dual in the Pool in the UK. Compare world rankings mens & womens 100 FR LCM from 2000 to 2012 look at what it took to rank 1st, 10th, 25th, 50th 75th & 100th in the world FINA Swimming World Rankings 2000 FS 1 01 48.18 10 49.68 25 51.74 2004 FS II 01 48.17 10 49.08 25 49.73 2005 01 48.12 10 49.28 25 49.95 2006 01 48.57 10 49.09 25 49.72 2007 Speedo Pro 01 47.91 10 48.72 25 49.35 2008 LZR (there was quite a drop when LZRs came out) 01 47.05 10 47.77 25 48.43 2009 LZR Jaked Arena 01 46.91 10 47.78 25 48.37 2010 back to Jammers (then a significant increase when they went away) 01 47.98 10 48.54 25 48.83 2011 01 47.49 10 48.24 25 48.69 2012 01 47.10 10 48.19 25 48.58 Some swimmers and strokes were slow to wear full body suits even in 2009 Aaron Piersol broke WRs wearing a legskin. Breastrokers seemed to be the last to go full body in 2008, some choosing jammers or legskins

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

knelson — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 12:06:46 GMT

Wait a minute, here. Are you saying that at one time backstroke flags weren't standard in competition or was this just at the pool where you trained? I never even thought of this. I assumed backstroke flags have been used in competition forever!

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

jeremyc — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 10:21:34 GMT

I think in that 1964 picture the rope across the pool (which doesn't have flags on it) was the halfway rope used for false starts.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

jeremyc — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 10:19:59 GMT

They didn't have them at the high school and country club pools were I swam in New England. Two meets were held in artificial lakes with wooden lane lines and docks at each end of the 50 meter course. Good luck at seeing where you were going and finding the walls at the ends. When I swam in college (as a walk-on at a big time school), I only swam free and fly and I was spending all my time just trying to keep up with other swimmers in workouts so I probably just didn't notice.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

Former Member — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 08:30:48 GMT

Just found an earlier one - Rome 1960

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

Former Member — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 08:27:41 GMT

There are backstroke flags in this picture - 1964 Olympics in Tokyo.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

smontanaro — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 06:44:30 GMT

Maybe backstroke flags were like touch pads and other equipment, only available at big meets early on, trickling down further as time went on. They represent and obvious safety improvement and are pretty cheap, so every pool eventually got them. In contrast, even today, many swim meets are still hand timed at the lower levels because of the expense of electronic timing systems (and low cost and sheer abundance of volunteer parental units armed with stopwatches).

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

Former Member — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 05:32:56 GMT

I think in that 1964 picture the rope across the pool (which doesn't have flags on it) was the halfway rope used for false starts. Look closely. You'll see the flags are there. Also, the red lane ropes lead into the wall (Of course it's a black and white picture though).

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

jeremyc — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 01:15:12 GMT

I do not ever recall seeing backstroke flags when I competed from 1960 to 1970 and the 200 IM was one of my events. I've just been doing a search for pictures of swim meets from those days and couldn't find any that showed the ends of the pool...all the pictures showed swimmers in the middle where there was a rope that they would drop if there was a false start. I do remember that rope at meets.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

Chris Stevenson — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 10:55:23 GMT

I think you will find that swimmers produce slower times when not wearing goggles. I swim in backstroke races without goggles all the time and I think it works out okay. I have done butterfly too. Goggles mostly help by increasing the amt of time one can spend training.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

jeremyc — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 10:21:45 GMT

a good test to see how much the laneline hurts when you don't swim straight. :bolt: You didn't say goggles vs eyes closed, although I could do that too. I can't really do a test using Thorpe's best events, because they aren't my best events.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

__steve__ — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 10:15:59 GMT

Try the test using Thorpes best events, 200 and 400

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

jaadams1 — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 10:10:17 GMT

I'll test that out at the pool next week. a 25 all out without goggles and then a 25 all with goggles. a good test to see how much the laneline hurts when you don't swim straight. :bolt:

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

jeremyc — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 10:05:00 GMT

I'll test that out at the pool next week. a 25 all out without goggles and then a 25 all with goggles.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

Former Member — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 08:20:06 GMT

I can't imagine how goggles add speed, however they do allow swimmers to train for many more hours. I think you will find that swimmers produce slower times when not wearing goggles.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

Former Member — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 05:23:32 GMT

The second sentence to FINA rule SW10.8 states simply: "Goggles may be worn." Great innovation: not only do they protect the eyes, you can see underwater. Without ripping up the record book. The basic reason I tacked my standard FINA complaint onto the Thorpe thread is because a 'swimsuit' that goes from neck to wrist to ankle, takes forever to get on and has to be scissored off, wasn't seen as violating rule SW10.8. Earth to the swim world, FINA is corrupt. I'm still trying to think of another instance, in any sport, where an Olympian bragged a few days after winning about how he cheated, but wasn't stripped of his gold medal and world record. Maybe someone can think of an example. BTW, exactly how long after winning a gold medal and setting a world record do we have to wait before we explain how we cheated, and still get away with it? Budding age-groupers need to know. Certainly you can't jump out of the pool and blurt it out during the on-deck interview? Should you wait until after the medal ceremony, so you have the gold in hand? Maybe you should wait a few days, or weeks, or months, just to be careful? Or is the waiting period 'subject to FINA interpretation?'

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

jeremyc — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 02:03:46 GMT

Who's Mike? btw, I swam age group, high school, college with no goggles. (They weren't used at 1972 Olympics either). No backstroke flags, either. Turns were fine, head position was fine, eyes were red all the time, and when walking home after a late workout in the winter, all the streetlights had halos around them (and also my hair froze). However, without backstroke flags, I once crashed into the wall on a 200 IM on the backstroke leg, breaking my hand and getting a concussion. I finished the race and then they wanted to take me to the hospital. I was arguing, "I've got the 100 fly coming up, you need my points, but lost that argument. Nowadays, I take exactly the same number of strokes per length, and notice that I am always counting when swimming backstroke.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

Glenn — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:35:45 GMT

Mike, You hit the nail on the head.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

Allen Stark — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:11:39 GMT

At the 2010 Nats in Atlanta my goggles broke on the way to the blocks for the 50 BR.I used to carry a spare in my pocket but after years of no problems I got careless(never again.)With no time to get new ones I thought"it's OK,You swam in college without goggles." What I realized after the first stroke was in college I swam BR with my head up and now was swimming looking down.I could not see the target for the turn and finish and had to use the Braille method.That probably cost me .5 sec,in my last 50 in a tech suit.

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

Former Member — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:35:05 GMT

It wasn't a wetsuit but an extremely tight-fitting Adidas suit designed by Kim Roberts of London. Kim supplied me with the same Adidas suits, but alas, mine were not made to measure. Kim met Ian Thorpe from time to time to measure the great man himself, to make sure his suits were always the correct size. They were so tight that after being used for just one race they were cut off him by an assistant, with a pair of scissors. These Adidas suits were incredible. They allowed me to swim 5 or 6 seconds faster, per 100 metres. I never got to wear the latest suits before the ban came in, which I was told were much faster than my Adidas suits. Consequently, life is thoroughly depressing, knowing I can't get anywhere near to my best times!

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

Patrick W. Brundage — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:40:08 GMT

That's actually pretty impressive. I'm 42 and my times now are pretty comparable to my times at age 14.Agreed. And, looking at the kids today, I think my 45 year old self is akin to a really good 14 year old girl (excluding Katie Ledecky and Becca Mann!).

RE: tech suits and Ian Thorpe

knelson — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:07:45 GMT

Since my best times were swum when I was in college and I am now in my sixties, my goal now is to try to duplicate the times I swam when I was 14 years old. That's actually pretty impressive. I'm 42 and my times now are pretty comparable to my times at age 14.