Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

Former Member — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:50:04 GMT

My experience is that I swim slower in practice than I used to, but my meet times are not that far behind my PBs, the times I did at 18-19 years of age. I cannot really explain this. Maybe I'm training smarter now, but then my training times shouldn't be that far behind. But I wouldn't guess a meet time from swimming the same event in practice. If I want a stipulation on say, a 100 free, I'd swim a 50 in practice. The time will be roughly the same as the second 50 of a 100. A 200 free in practice can give me an estimate of what I can expect in the 800. Also, like several people have said, it differs from swimmer to swimmer, from season to season, from event to event. Still, you'll probably go faster in the meet than from a push-off in practice. In a 100, perhaps 1.0-2.0 seconds from the dive and the same just because it's a meet.

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

__steve__ — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 06:28:58 GMT

Can get within 10ths or even better any of my meet times from a push. These are short events too :bitching:

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

Former Member — Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:21:51 GMT

My prediction on this one is that practice & meet times will be similar. I think that my workload is less (swimming 3-4 x week) than in the past and so it seems like I'd be able to swim faster at any given moment. So my guess is that the race/competition factor as well as any potential taper may not provide as much cushion as I'm used to. Basing this on recently easily holding :28 on a few 50's, which seems faster than I would expect. I'm guessing with less training, less feeling of competition at meets and no chance to work starts/turns that meet times will be only slightly faster. It really is fascinating-makes me wonder if my years of just putting in crazy yardage were really not working "smart."

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

ande — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 10:28:29 GMT

Any good resources or rules-of-thumb to predict race/meet times from training? Do you just use time trials, can you use your 100 base-times, descend sets or pace work? I'm curious as to where I am at early in this season and would like to compare/project that to a meet setting. I feel like once-upon-a-time I had a gestalt for judging practice performance that let me understand where my training was at. Alternatively, does my question even make sense? The ratio or difference for Meet times vs practice times varies from one swimmer to the next., swimmers can have different ratios for different strokes. I tend to swim pretty fast in practice and a bit faster in meets. Some swimmers swim way faster in meets Than they do in practice, I've also seen swimmers swim faster in practice than in meets.

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

jim thornton — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:33:13 GMT

I'd just like to add a consoling note to this discussion. My friend Glenn Battle, an excellent masters swimmer with a number of All American rankings, told me once that practice times don't have much relevance to meet performance. He was assuming, I am pretty sure, that you work out reasonably hard at practice and attend regularly. But if you happen to swim slow at any given practice, and you have a meet coming up soon, you shouldn't assume the poor performance during practice portends a lousy time at the meet. Case in point: Last week, after doing various sets, we did one fast 100 at the end of practice. I was a little tired, but not super tired, and expected to go about :59 or so, which is what I usually do under such circumstances. I think I came in at 1:01. It was in a 25 yard pool, and it was from a pushoff. Even worse was how tired I felt at the end of it. I told my coach, Bill White, that there is no way I should feel that bad swimming that slow. What really bugged me was knowing that in four days, I would be racing the 100 m Long Course freestyle at a last chance LCM meet. If I could barely make a 1:01 in short course yards, how could I hope to make a 1:01 something in long course meters? But I remembered what Glenn told me and tried not to psych myself out. At the meet, I did a 1:01.43. Everyone is, of course, different. Some swimmers are great practice swimmers and don't improve that much at meets. I may be one of those guys who can gear up for pain but only for a limited time! I try to endure what I can in practice, but at meets, knowing most events are over relatively quickly (as opposed to practice, which lasts at least an hour!), I just seem to be able to buck up and suffer more intensely, knowing it will be over soon. Anyhow, I suspect you will do much better in meets than practice. Let us know if the Glenn Battle wisdom applies to your situation as it has consistently applied to mine. Good luck! PS by suffering more intensely, I absolutely 100 percent do not mean to suggest going all out on any race 100 or longer and dying long before you manage to touch the final wall. Suffer, yes, but suffer wisely! Keep in mind that adrenaline alone will mask some of the pain early on, and you might be tricked into premature death by its apparent absence! (But I felt so good before the piano dropped on me--so smooth and strong and then...)

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

knelson — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 06:22:59 GMT

What I've found personally, though, is that my meet times as a Masters swimmer are WAY better than my training times. That is, when I was in HS & college I could come way closer to meet times in a workout. This is true for me, too.

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

no200fly — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 05:12:50 GMT

Ha. Not really what I was getting at.... Sorry - sometimes I just can't help myself. I think you will find that you swim surprisingly fast in your first meet. I wish I could go back to college and swim with the sprinters. All of that yardage, I think, was a waste.

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

Former Member — Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:24:07 GMT

I have my best times as an age grouper, which I don't worry about, and then my masters best times. As you know, there are lots of different obstacles is our adult lives that make comparing these two measures less than apples to apples. That being noted, Chris Stevenson has posted a really neat table regarding practice pace and race predictions. Check it out here. :bow: This table is exactly what I am on the hunt for!!!

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

Former Member — Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:21:39 GMT

Ha. Not really what I was getting at.... I knew it was a hard question to explain. I was wondering how the lighter training volume impacts the ability to swim faster in meets than practice. I always felt that in the past, a high yardage training schedule negatively impacted the ability to swim faster in meets. For example. At the height of a high volume training season, a fast 100 in practice correlated directly to meet times, once the dive is added in. I'm wondering now with lower volume higher intensity training which way that will play out... Bigger or smaller practice to meet differences.

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

no200fly — Sun, 09 Sep 2012 08:36:17 GMT

Here are your meet times: LCM-50free, :33 a few times from a push at the end of a descend type set (long intervals) 28.96 SCY-100free 1:06 from a push over multiple repeats on a long interval. (This one seems really slow to me, which generated the question). 57.64 SCY-500free from a push 6:03, longer interval (7:30, last in the set of descending 500's) 5:43.24

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

rxleakem — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 09:11:02 GMT

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

Former Member — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 06:59:49 GMT

Ok... I think I'm more in the anaerobic/high intensity category. I'm most curious because I'm still in the steep part of the getting in shape curve (6 weeks in). I know in the past if I could go :58/:59 from a push in a SCY 100fr, then I was probably 54.5-55 ish for a meet. I'm not sure if that holds when you are older and swimming less yardage. So here are my recent experiences. Trying to assess where I'm at for no other purpose than projecting where I might be at a big meet down the road. THat, and morbid curiosity. LCM-50free, :33 a few times from a push at the end of a descend type set (long intervals) SCY-100free 1:06 from a push over multiple repeats on a long interval. (This one seems really slow to me, which generated the question). SCY-500free from a push 6:03, longer interval (7:30, last in the set of descending 500's) 200 free-haven't bothered to try a race-pace yet, but that would be my go-to event.

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

Patrick W. Brundage — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 05:12:50 GMT

I've been doing a series of test sets over the last 2 years or so. While I can't create a formula from the times in the test set to predict the actual times in the meet, I can generally correlate performance so that, if my times on a test set in year 1 ahead of a meet are then similar to what I do on the same test set in year 2 ahead of the same meet, I expect and have seen my meet times to be about the same. What I've found personally, though, is that my meet times as a Masters swimmer are WAY better than my training times. That is, when I was in HS & college I could come way closer to meet times in a workout. Now, that's a crap shoot. So, I don't try to extrapolate from an actual training time to a meet time, but I predict a meet time based upon my training times relative to a previous training time.

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

AnnG — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 03:52:26 GMT

If those are high school or college times and you are just six weeks into getting back to swimming then you must be a new masters swimmer. Take those times and throw them away. You are starting fresh and need to establish new baselines. Just start swimming in meets to see where you are. For me, I can never come close to meet times at practice even though I think I am working very hard at practice. Must be something about preferring to swim in meets I guess. But that is just me. I have a lot of fun at meets. I have fun at practice too but, well, you know, its just practice. . . I can tell you that I have come to within 10% of my college days times in the shorter races but nowhere near those times in anything over a 400. I just do not have time to put in that much training. But I still have a lot of fun and get a lot of satisfaction from my swims as a master.

RE: Practice vs Meet-Times, etc

Allen Stark — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 02:04:30 GMT

Your question makes good sense,unfortunately there are so many variables that it is hard to predict.Are you talking about a taper meet,what stroke,what distance etc.?What kind of workouts do you do? If you do pretty much aerobic work (longer distances,shorter rest) without a taper then you may not go much faster(the dive is worth about 2 sec if you are timing from a push off in work out.)Some people actually go slower at meets because for a variety of reasons,primarily performance anxiety. If you do high intensity workouts and taper even a little you may go much faster. I do high intensity workouts and generally drop 8-10 sec in 200M breaststroke between mid-season meets and taper meet.