Both Sides of the Lane Line

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:47:43 GMT

Recognized meets makes life hell for the TT recorder. :bitching::bitching::bitching::bitching: Right, should have put this in the "minus" column for USA-S meets as well: it is harder to get your times submitted for Top 10 consideration, particularly if it is a bulkhead pool.

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

tjrpatt — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:52:30 GMT

I don't want to get the moderators mad with another tangent, but there is an issue that is related: Sanction vs Recognition. Say a club is interested in hosting a meet but would rather apply for USMS *recognition* rather than *sanction* in order to boost meet attendance (because sanctioned meets are limited to USMS members but recognized meets are not). What arguments could/should I use, if any, to convince them that sanction is the better choice? (Maybe it isn't.) This may be too technical a discussion for BSLL but, since USA-S meets are officially "recognized" meets, it is kind of related. Recognized meets makes life hell for the TT recorder. :bitching::bitching::bitching::bitching:

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

smontanaro — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:50:07 GMT

While there is a certain novelty at being an old guy at a USA-S meet, it wears off quickly. That's probably true in many venues other than USA-S meets as well. :D

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:36:01 GMT

I guess I didn't realize that masters members swimming at USA-S meets was controversial. Maybe it isn't very controversial and that's why Laura is having trouble finding someone? Some people live in LMSCs where the population of USMS members is sparse and masters meets are few and far between, and they go to USA-S meets out of necessity. Maybe in some places pool rentals are very high and only USA-S meets can get the attendance necessary to turn a profit (or at least avoid a large loss). Let's assume neither of those scenarios apply. As someone who has been to both meets, my short take on the matter: Advantages of USMS meets: more social interaction, generally more fun, more people I know, some events available (eg 50s stroke, 100 IM) that aren't at USA-S meets (personally I don't miss those events, but others might). While there is a certain novelty at being an old guy at a USA-S meet, it wears off quickly. Advantages of USA-S meets: often better competition, the inspirational value a masters swimmer provides, spreading awareness that swimming can continue past college, the fact that some meets have a trials/finals format if you like that sort of thing. I don't want to get the moderators mad with another tangent, but there is an issue that is related: Sanction vs Recognition. Say a club is interested in hosting a meet but would rather apply for USMS *recognition* rather than *sanction* in order to boost meet attendance (because sanctioned meets are limited to USMS members but recognized meets are not). What arguments could/should I use, if any, to convince them that sanction is the better choice? (Maybe it isn't.) This may be too technical a discussion for BSLL but, since USA-S meets are officially "recognized" meets, it is kind of related.

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

Rob Copeland — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:11:26 GMT

In an effort to un-hijack this thread, I’ve moved unrelated posts to The Underside of the Lane Lines - U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums. Let’s try to keep this on track.

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

Celestial — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:16:51 GMT

I'm glad the USA team that I'm thinking of joining up with isn't as hardcore as Kirk's team. It should be a good mix for me though. Now...just have to dig deep into the pockets to find enough :2cents: to make it happen. :chug: You might be able to do what I do - since I only come in the mornings due to my work schedule (afternoon practice is at 2pm) I get to "only" pay the pre-senior rate instead of the senior rate - which saves me about $55/month. Good luck! It's totally an improvement over swimming solo!

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

aquageek — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 11:08:50 GMT

I've thought about this as well. I may not be in an official position of authority but as the only person on my team and in the water that is over the age of 18, I do act as a sort of mom to the kids (my coach is 35 but not in the water) which makes me a de-facto authority figure. We've had some changes to my team lately and I worried that they would ask me to leave as an adult on a kids team. Luckily, they have not. Why don't you register with USA Swimming as an official and take the athlete protection course and become a S&T judge? That doesn't take very long and might set aside some concerns.

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

swimshark — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 08:22:20 GMT

Why don't you register with USA Swimming as an official and take the athlete protection course and become a S&T judge? That doesn't take very long and might set aside some concerns. Because if I do that, they will expect me to actually be an official. With Matthew growing up, his activities are taking over more of the weekends so I couldn't really be available for USA-S. I have, however taken the Boy Scout Youth Protection Training and the Swim Safe Defense courses. Both were needed so that I could have Matthew's Den earn a patch with my coach.

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

swimshark — Tue, 28 Aug 2012 08:34:33 GMT

Another thing that Fresnoid mentioned above it the pedophile aspect of things. While I think it's a good thing that the coaches/officials/etc. all have to have background checks in order to work the meets/practices, I think it's strange that an adult like me (at 35 years old) does not have to have a background safety check to be a registered swimmer competing or practicing with the minor children. I guess USA-S doesn't feel this is an issue?? I'm not advocating they start doing this, but who knows? I've thought about this as well. I may not be in an official position of authority but as the only person on my team and in the water that is over the age of 18, I do act as a sort of mom to the kids (my coach is 35 but not in the water) which makes me a de-facto authority figure. We've had some changes to my team lately and I worried that they would ask me to leave as an adult on a kids team. Luckily, they have not.

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

Former Member — Tue, 28 Aug 2012 07:00:51 GMT

What would be the point in such an article? I had a long scenario typed up but I think my whole point to it was that this article would have the ability to steer away more people from masters than it would to attract.

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

knelson — Tue, 28 Aug 2012 02:31:09 GMT

I think it's strange that an adult like me (at 35 years old) does not have to have a background safety check to be a registered swimmer competing or practicing with the minor children. I guess USA-S doesn't feel this is an issue?? We're not in an authority position like the coaches are, so to me it's a totally different scenario.

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

Former Member — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 11:44:10 GMT

I could see a con side due to paranoia about sexual predators. The football coach at a middle school near here is convinced that any adult male wearing a swim suit at the pool or locker room is only there to "Sandusky" the kids.

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

jaadams1 — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:26:33 GMT

How about USMS members at USS meets who request splits for non free 100s? I'm all over that one. I like the one USAS meet that the local team hosts here in the summer, which includes the 13 & Over 50s of each stroke as well. I know the kids love it, and it gives me a chance to get in my 50 LCM Fly for the season as well. :applaud:

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

jaadams1 — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:23:07 GMT

Some of us have no choice but to do USA-S meets when no pool wants to host a Masters LCM meet in their LMSC. Otherwise, I have to drive/fly miles upon miles to get to a Masters LCM meet. Besides, beating an age grouper might encourage the teenager to step up their game in the pool. The best comment that I got from an age group coach when I beat a 15 year old was "I can't believe I got beat by a 30 year old!" This is one of the reasons I began swimming with USAS as well last year. I attended a few SCY events as well during the year, and do so for the pure enjoyment of racing. I do get lots of props from the parents, and a few of the parents give their older kids a hard time (jokingly) about the 'old guy' that's beating them. ;) A few parents say they wish that more 'old guys' would come out and swim in the meets. I always respond with "why not you?" :) As long as I'm still competitive, and not 'holding up the meet', I'll continue to compete in USAS meets around the area. I can still do masters meets any time too. Another thing that Fresnoid mentioned above it the pedophile aspect of things. While I think it's a good thing that the coaches/officials/etc. all have to have background checks in order to work the meets/practices, I think it's strange that an adult like me (at 35 years old) does not have to have a background safety check to be a registered swimmer competing or practicing with the minor children. I guess USA-S doesn't feel this is an issue?? I'm not advocating they start doing this, but who knows?

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

tjrpatt — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:33:49 GMT

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

aquageek — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:15:42 GMT

How about USMS members at USS meets who request splits for non free 100s? I'm all over that one.

RE: Both Sides of the Lane Line

Patrick W. Brundage — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 06:27:43 GMT

Do you a truthful or a snarky response? I'm admittedly "pro" on this idea, but would be happen to pen a fictional NIMBY-like response from a teenager who doesn't like getting dusted by an 'old guy.' ;)