Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 06:06:08 GMT

Thanks! Any special plans for when you pass Wookiee? :bolt: :dj_dance: :party2: :cake: :chug: I'm here to stay! :anim_coffee:

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

That Guy — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 05:51:58 GMT

:afraid: Yikes! Me, too! And, me neither. :D Cheers, That Guy! See ya around the Forums! :chug: Thanks! Any special plans for when you pass Wookiee? :bolt:

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 05:36:57 GMT

Please continue to do nothing.I am currently # 10(if I counted correctly) and you would knock me out of the TT. Hey, this is probably the only way I will ever make an individual TT in anything- unless I outlive my competition! :banana:

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

Allen Stark — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 05:29:19 GMT

There's a...? Oh my gosh there is a leaderboard! I don't know if I ever clicked on Community before. The leaderboard confirms that I spend too much time here! I'm not going to do anything about that! :bliss: Please continue to do nothing.I am currently # 10(if I counted correctly) and you would knock me out of the TT.

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 05:22:28 GMT

There's a...? Oh my gosh there is a leaderboard! I don't know if I ever clicked on Community before. The leaderboard confirms that I spend too much time here! I'm not going to do anything about that! :bliss: :afraid: Yikes! Me, too! And, me neither. :D Cheers, That Guy! See ya around the Forums! :chug:

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

That Guy — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 03:48:04 GMT

WOW, some guys will post anything to pad their post count. Looks like that guy is closing in on posing legends Paul Smith and thewookiee, trying to move into the top 10.:carolers: There's a...? Oh my gosh there is a leaderboard! I don't know if I ever clicked on Community before. The leaderboard confirms that I spend too much time here! I'm not going to do anything about that! :bliss:

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

Rob Copeland — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 03:29:13 GMT

Yep.WOW, some guys will post anything to pad their post count. Looks like that guy is closing in on posing legends Paul Smith and thewookiee, trying to move into the top 10.:carolers:

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

That Guy — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 03:15:33 GMT

Bad guess! But there were 46 men's times recorded for the 70-79 age group in 2012 alone. Can I still hide behind the small sample size argument? Yep.

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

pmccoy — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 03:00:55 GMT

Here's the last 5 years of swimmers age 80+ who completed a 1650. Does not account for DNF's, DQ's, or individuals who raced the 1650 multiple times in a season. Season Men Women 2012 9 8 2011 10 11 2010 11 8 2009 8 6 2008 10 6 =================== Total 48 39 Source: www.usms.org/.../toptimes.php Bad guess! But there were 46 men's times recorded for the 70-79 age group in 2012 alone. Can I still hide behind the small sample size argument?

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

That Guy — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 01:47:20 GMT

I agree to an extent on the 1650 but the trend holds through the 75-79 age group. After that, you run into sample size issues. There just aren't a lot of Octogenarians lining up to take on the 1650. And my guess is that there are a lot more women giving it a shot than men. Here's the last 5 years of swimmers age 80+ who completed a 1650. Does not account for DNF's, DQ's, or individuals who raced the 1650 multiple times in a season. Season Men Women 2012 9 8 2011 10 11 2010 11 8 2009 8 6 2008 10 6 =================== Total 48 39 Source: www.usms.org/.../toptimes.php

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

pmccoy — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 01:01:57 GMT

In the women's performance compared to men? This seems to be the case for the 50, but not really in the 1650.I agree to an extent on the 1650 but the trend holds through the 75-79 age group. After that, you run into sample size issues. There just aren't a lot of Octogenarians lining up to take on the 1650. And my guess is that there are a lot more women giving it a shot than men.

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

art_z — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:52:36 GMT

I think those age group comparisons (under age 18) are probably a little skewed as girls tend to hit puberty sooner than boys. once they've both hit "adult hood", at least as far as peak physical development goes, it seems to be the standard spread.

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

knelson — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 05:45:29 GMT

In both cases, there seems to be a general decline with age. In the women's performance compared to men? This seems to be the case for the 50, but not really in the 1650.

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

pmccoy — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 05:28:23 GMT

The 100 free may well be an outlier considering Dara Torres has the record for women. It would be interesting to see the general trends in the data, though. For example, do women get closer to men with age, stay the same, or get comparatively slower? SCY Records by age: Age____M________W________1650 Fr_M_____W_______50 Fr 18-24__15:48.7__17:31.7__0.9020__19.36__22.62__0.8558 25-29__15:44.7__16:50.2__0.9351__18.67__23.08__0.8089 's a SCY 1650 to 50 free comparison by age. Women tend to do better on distance. In both cases, there seems to be a general decline with age. The problem w/ masters is that you get outliers that can skew the data.

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

That Guy — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 05:16:13 GMT

Well it would be nice if you would at least summarize your intended message with those links I already did: At ultra distances, the gender (im)balance is different. :angel:

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

gdanner — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 05:07:56 GMT

And because I was bored, here are the ratios between boys and girls for all of the freestyle events for the USA-S National Age Group Records: 50 fr 10 96.9% 12 95.7% 14 93.1% 16 89.9% 18 89.9% 100 fr 10 100.5% (girls record faster than boys) 12 97.5% 14 95.5% 16 93.7% 18 90.4% 200 fr 10 96.9% 12 98.0% 14 95.8% 16 95.2% 18 91.4% 400 fr 10 97.8% 12 97.3% 14 96.1% 16 94.0% 18 93.3% 800 fr 10 N/A 12 98.4% 14 96.0% 16 95.0% 18 94.6% 1500 fr 10 N/A 12 98.9% 14 95.7% 16 94.9% 18 93.9% While adults males may have that magical 10% extra hemoglobin, I wonder how that changes with age. As others have stated, muscle mass has to factor into all of this as well. (Missy Franklin broke a couple of the above records at the Games, I didn't adjust those). haters gonna hate www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../15064423 www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../9044230 romuald-lepers.onlinetri.com/index.php www.pponline.co.uk/.../gender-performance-1094 journals.lww.com/.../Differences_in_ultra_endurance_exercise_in.11.aspx Well it would be nice if you would at least summarize your intended message with those links :agree: I read the titles but stopped short of reading them all (for the moment).

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

That Guy — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 04:48:39 GMT

Well, she won the 2003 Badwater Ultra, but she doesn't have the overall record. The men's record is nearly 5 hours faster than hers, which comes out to a .824 ratio...not far off the widest margin from Hammerman's analysis of 82 events for 6 sports, which was .84. So it would appear that even extreme distances it holds true. Badwater Ultra records: 20-29 M v F performance ratio: .772 30-39 M v F performance ratio: .902 40-49 M v F performance ratio: .824 She won the Badwater Ultra because she was the best person who went. It's not like the Olympics where you can expect the best in the world are going to attend every time. haters gonna hate www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../15064423 www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../9044230 romuald-lepers.onlinetri.com/index.php www.pponline.co.uk/.../gender-performance-1094 journals.lww.com/.../Differences_in_ultra_endurance_exercise_in.11.aspx

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

knelson — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 04:44:00 GMT

The current course records for the Ironman World Championships are 8:03:56 for men and 8:54:02 for women which comes out to 90.6% so it works pretty well for Ironman distance triathlons, too!

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

gdanner — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 04:36:37 GMT

It's a shame that this study only goes as far as marathon distances. At ultra distances, the gender (im)balance is different. Exhibit A: en.wikipedia.org/.../Pam_Reed Well, she won the 2003 Badwater Ultra, but she doesn't have the overall record. The men's record is nearly 5 hours faster than hers, which comes out to a .824 ratio...not far off the widest margin from Hammerman's analysis of 82 events for 6 sports, which was .84. So it would appear that even extreme distances it holds true. Badwater Ultra records: 20-29 M v F performance ratio: .772 30-39 M v F performance ratio: .902 40-49 M v F performance ratio: .824 She won the Badwater Ultra because she was the best person who went. It's not like the Olympics where you can expect the best in the world are going to attend every time.

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

knelson — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 04:32:09 GMT

it seems fishy that all the women's records "likely to fall" are sprints (or relay sprints) and all the men's are distance. Seems that other factors may be in play. Without seeing any data I would think women would be comparatively closer to men in the longer events where strength isn't as much of a factor. These numbers seem to support this theory. It would be interesting to see what the numbers are like in masters. I did a couple quick calculations in the 40-44 age group with the long course national records. 100 free 96.2% 1500 free 92.6% 200 IM 92.5% 100 fly 90.3% The 100 free may well be an outlier considering Dara Torres has the record for women. It would be interesting to see the general trends in the data, though. For example, do women get closer to men with age, stay the same, or get comparatively slower?

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

pmccoy — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 04:11:39 GMT

If the women's record is lower than usual -- say, .85 of the men's, then there's likely room for improvement in the women's record. And likewise, if the women's record stands somewhat higher than 90 percent -- .93, .94 or .95 -- the men's record can likely improve. Interesting... if I'm using excel right, here are the Men's records most likely to fall: 1500*m freestyle - 0.924119931 400*m freestyle - 0.920217437 200*m butterfly - 0.915442082 800*m freestyle - 0.915037442 Women's records likely to fall: 50*m freestyle - 0.881163085 50*m backstroke - 0.888396157 4×100*m freestyle relay - 0.88909881 100*m butterfly - 0.8899607 Nothing in the .93-.95 range for the men and nothing near .85 for the women. Using the magical .9 value, Sun Yang (or some other male) could go 14:08. However, it seems fishy that all the women's records "likely to fall" are sprints (or relay sprints) and all the men's are distance. Seems that other factors may be in play.

RE: Interesting Comparo Men vs Women's athletic performance

That Guy — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 04:02:52 GMT

Seems to have held very steady through out the decades. Women seem to always be about .90 time wise of the men's performance. Some interesting science why that always may be the case. www.theatlantic.com/.../ It's a shame that this study only goes as far as marathon distances. At ultra distances, the gender (im)balance is different. Exhibit A: en.wikipedia.org/.../Pam_Reed