Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

Bobinator — Wed, 01 Jul 2015 05:04:42 GMT

We've had 3 or 4 meets in the Indiana area with 25's; they are very popular too. I think we keep state records in these events. At the very least the 25's will get some of the newer or less skilled swimmers to attend meets. At the upper end, it's fun to watch super fast people sprint top speed!!

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

__steve__ — Wed, 01 Jul 2015 04:23:59 GMT

I would love to swim a 25 yd/m event, even if a starting block was not an option. The closest opportunity around here is just once a year and over a 6 hour drive.

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

Former Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:44:57 GMT

Masters should offer 25's and keep 25 records. Let's make it happen. Not just the Masters Ande, the 25m free has been available for ages at the Varsity level (i.e., much closer to actual elite level). Event is usually won in 10sec or so.

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

rtodd — Sun, 13 Oct 2013 05:41:59 GMT

I think the 25 could be a legitimate event. We will soon see someone in the 17's, so I think an 8 for a 25 would compare to a 6.5 for the 60m track event.

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

Former Member — Tue, 08 Oct 2013 10:02:04 GMT

Masters should offer 25's and keep 25 records. Let's make it happen. I second the motion.

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

__steve__ — Tue, 08 Oct 2013 05:03:43 GMT

Rowdy Gaines meet always has 25's. I do one as a warm up when i get in friday to get used to blocks. It is funI really wanted to attend this meet.

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

swimcat — Tue, 08 Oct 2013 04:23:54 GMT

Rowdy Gaines meet always has 25's. I do one as a warm up when i get in friday to get used to blocks. It is fun

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

200free — Tue, 08 Oct 2013 03:27:27 GMT

We have a meet in Northern Virginia in 2 weeks that offers all the 25's. They're unofficial of course but if USMS changed the rules I'd make them official events. www.patriotmasters.org/SprintClassic.htm

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

Former Member — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 09:34:31 GMT

bump Canadian masters meets sometimes offer 25m events. They don't keep a top 10/top 20 or records but if you search for all events in the results database you can see times and national/provincial ranks: www.mymsc.ca/EventResults.jsp

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

__steve__ — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 08:35:46 GMT

Even without record/top ten, though that would not concern me, I believe it would be a fun event to have available once or twice a year. Recent meets in database with all-out events: SCM 2012 Rowdy Gaines Masters Classic IV (Florida LMSC) NAC Masters Sprinting Turkeys Classic (Southeastern LMSC) 4th Annual UVAC Leaf Peepers Masters Meet (New England LMSC) SCY 2012 and 2013 Sun Devil Masters Invitational Sprinters Spectacular (Arizona LMSC) Mission Viejo Masters SCY Meet (Southern Pacific LMSC) Skaneateles Masters Meet 2013 (Niagara LMSC) 2013 Wenatchee Winter Invitational (Inland Northwest LMSC) Bath YMCA Sprint Meet (New England LMSC) Ballston Spa Holiday Classic Swim Meet (Adirondack LMSC) Rocky Mountain Senior Games (Colorado LMSC) Pasadena Senior Games (Southern Pacific LMSC)

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

__steve__ — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 03:57:26 GMT

Masters should offer 25's and keep 25 records. Let's make it happen. bump

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

smontanaro — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:44:57 GMT

Do they gridge 25's? If you swim it, they will gridge...

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

__steve__ — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 06:25:07 GMT

Do they gridge 25's?

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

That Guy — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:55:14 GMT

One final thing: it is too late for this year, but in two years' time (the next "Rules" year) I would be put this before the Records and Tabulation Committee to see if they want to submit a rule change proposal to add 25s and longer events for results/record tabulation. It is quite likely I will no longer be chair at the time -- and in any event, the chair cannot make motions directly -- but this sort of thing probably falls within the purview of the committee since essentially you are proposing that we start tracking results, Top 10 and records. Just so people understand the process: rule change proposals go to the Rules Committee. They may make changes to improve clarity, ensure conformity with existing rules, clean up the rationale, etc (in collaboration with the proposing body mostly), and then they vote on whether to recommend the rule for passage. If they do recommend, then a simple majority of the House of Delegates would pass the rule; if they recommend against passage, then the bar is higher (I think a two-thirds majority is needed from the HOD but I'd have to look that up). For a rule change to pass in an "off" year, the Rules Committee has to deem it an emergency and then I think a 90% majority is needed to pass. Or something like that; I'm being lazy and not looking it up right now... Thanks Chris!

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

jaadams1 — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:49:26 GMT

What is your entry time? No, no reason... What? Why is everyone staring at me? 9:26.12 if you want to gridge. I'm sure it'll be a top heat entry, but we could always IM it anyway! :bolt:

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

__steve__ — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:10:21 GMT

Thank you !

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:55:19 GMT

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:47:18 GMT

Wouldn't it be useful to try some of these as demonstration events at local meets before proposing them nationally? Would the presence of 25s or an 800IM at a local meet mean it can't get a sanction? I haven't seen any meets with the longer events, though I have seen meets with 25s. I've also seen a meet with odd relays (eg, 400 backstroke or 400 IM relay). The meet gets a sanction but the so-called "non-standard" events results are not submitted for Top 10 consideration, records, etc, and this is stated explicitly in the meet information packet. (Though, interestingly, it is possible to get a legit split from a non-standard event: for example, you can do a split request for the first 200 of an 800 IM and it would be considered for Top 10 in the 200 fly.)

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

chowmi — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:25:41 GMT

You are right. This is just my personal view on my competitions. I'd prefer to "get my money's worth" out of a competition. Not necessarily only swimming the longest events, but I don't like to travel across the state to do four 50s and a 100 IM either. Too funny. I am in the totally opposite camp and think that doing ONE 50 in an entire meet is worthwhile. Otherwise, swimming a bunch of events cuts into my Doin' Nuthin' / Napping in my Deck Chair time. And to me it's not just about swimming fast, it's about getting early dibs on the showers and leaving a meet before the last event so I can go out to eat that much faster. There are quite a few meets that offer 25's, you just have to look for them! Or, even better, take the initiative to host a meet with 25's!

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

That Guy — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:42:59 GMT

SWEET!!! Nothing like taking out an 800 IM at a full speed "sprint" to get my 200 Fly time for TT purposes, and then trying to survive the backstroke afterward. :) Even though I'm on my back, I may be sinking. I'll take "Things That No One Says" for $2000, Trebek Note to self...I am entered in the 800 SCM Free at the end of the NW Zone SCM meet on October...hmmm ;) (yes I realize it can't count as a 200 Fly time, because it's and 800 FREE, but the 800 IM is still a possibility. Will have to wait for the seedings to find out.) What is your entry time? No, no reason... What? Why is everyone staring at me?

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

jaadams1 — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:25:47 GMT

(Though, interestingly, it is possible to get a legit split from a non-standard event: for example, you can do a split request for the first 200 of an 800 IM and it would be considered for Top 10 in the 200 fly.) SWEET!!! Nothing like taking out an 800 IM at a full speed "sprint" to get my 200 Fly time for TT purposes, and then trying to survive the backstroke afterward. :) Even though I'm on my back, I may be sinking. Note to self...I am entered in the 800 SCM Free at the end of the NW Zone SCM meet on October...hmmm ;) (yes I realize it can't count as a 200 Fly time, because it's and 800 FREE, but the 800 IM is still a possibility. Will have to wait for the seedings to find out.)

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

smontanaro — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 05:59:50 GMT

Wouldn't it be useful to try some of these as demonstration events at local meets before proposing them nationally? Would the presence of 25s or an 800IM at a local meet mean it can't get a sanction?

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 05:30:03 GMT

So the next window of opportunity to vote on this change is the 2014 Convention. According to the latest minutes, there are some forumites on the Rules Committee. Rules Committee members, how does a change get proposed to the Rules Committee for consideration? I'm not on the Rules Committee but (as chair of Records & Tabulation) I have submitted rule change proposals. One thing to remember is Article 601.2.1: Authorization—Changes to the USMS Code of Regulations and Rules of Competition may be proposed only by an LMSC, a standing committee of the House of Delegates, the Board of Directors or the Executive Committee. The most common route for a typical USMS member to get a rule proposed is take it to his/her LMSC Board and have them make the proposal. Of course it would help to build a "base" of support to convince the LMSC officers that this is something that members in their LMSC would want. Deadline for rule change submissions is July 1 if I recall correctly. I should probably point out that it is not completely necessary to propose a rule change to contest events like 25 free or 500 backstroke. Some meets already do this as "non-standard" events. Possibly we could even convince the IT folk to start tracking such non-standard events in our results database so that there could be unofficial "top ten" rankings and records. But this approach maybe won't satisfy some people (maybe most).

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

That Guy — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 04:19:04 GMT

Masters should offer 25's and keep 25 records. Let's make it happen. I'd like to see 400's of stroke and an 800 im. There's been a bunch of discussion about this lately. What needs to change is Rule 102.5 in Part 1: Swimming Rules. (additions in green) 102.5 Events 102.5.1 Short Course (25) Yards 25-50-100-200-500-1000-1650 yards freestyle 25-50-100-200-500-1000-1650 yards backstroke 25-50-100-200-500-1000-1650 yards breaststroke 25-50-100-200-500-1000-1650 yards butterfly 100-200-400-800 yards individual medley 200-400-800 yards freestyle relay 200-400-800 yards mixed freestyle relay 200-400 yards medley relay 200-400 yards mixed medley relay 102.5.2 Long Course (50) Meters and Short Course (25) Meters 25*-50-100-200-400-800-1500 meters freestyle 25*-50-100-200-400-800-1500 meters backstroke 25*-50-100-200-400-800-1500 meters breaststroke 25*-50-100-200-400-800-1500 meters butterfly 100*-200-400-800 meters individual medley 200-400-800 meters freestyle relay 200-400-800 meters mixed freestyle relay 200-400 meters medley relay 200-400 meters mixed medley relay *short course meters only Note: For nonconforming events see article 202.1.1F(3). Part 6: Amendment Procedures explains how to go about this: 601.1.5 Rules Committee—Proposed changes to Part 1: Swimming Rules and the Glossary shall be considered by the Rules Committee for report and recommendation to the House of Delegates. 601.2.4 Publication of Proposed Amendments—All proposed changes shall be published and distributed to each LMSC and each member of the House of Delegates not later than August 15. 601.4 Adoption Of Proposed Amendments The USMS Code of Regulations and Rules of Competition may only be altered, amended, repealed or otherwise changed at the annual meeting of the House of Delegates and only as follows: 601.4.1 Rules—In even-numbered years, Part 1 and the Glossary may be amended by a majority vote of the House of Delegates members present and voting if the proposed amendments are submitted to and recommended by the Rules Committee, or by a two-thirds vote of the House of Delegates members present and voting if the proposed amendments are submitted to and NOT recommended by the Rules Committee. So the next window of opportunity to vote on this change is the 2014 Convention. According to the latest minutes, there are some forumites on the Rules Committee. Rules Committee members, how does a change get proposed to the Rules Committee for consideration? Other interesting bits: 102.10.1 Seeding Principles for Masters Competition B Age groups, genders and events of the same distance 200 yards or longer may be combined so that no swimmer has to swim alone and lanes may be filled. Part 2: Administrative Regulations of Competition

RE: Swimming : Why no pure sprint event?

Former Member — Wed, 08 Aug 2012 16:11:25 GMT

I could (SARCASM) really see myself sending in meet entries, driving across the state, $$$$ for gas and food and occasionally hotels, or flying across the country to dive in for :10-:11 seconds of racing. Sign me up...:bolt: Well James, it certainly wouldn't be for everybody, but isn't what you're describing what elite track & field sprinters do? I fly across the country to race other guys from around the country for 21 seconds. If we got to do another race of 11 seconds, great! Plus, I'd do better! ;)