Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:22:44 GMT

Because of Oscar Pistorius... www.nytimes.com/.../ap-oly-ath-pistorius-paralympics.html

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

That Guy — Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:15:36 GMT

Sally Jenkins says the greatest is Jim Thorpe. Usain Bolt says the greatest is Usain Bolt. www.washingtonpost.com/.../f9114872-e33c-11e1-ae7f-d2a13e249eb2_story.html

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Celestial — Sat, 11 Aug 2012 03:41:57 GMT

Isn't this sort of how the Triathlon came to be? If I remember correctly the new pentathlon also includes a swimming component as well. Comparing swimming to running is like comparing oranges to apples. As to who is the "best" Olympian I don't really think that is something that can be definitively answered. Much easier to determine who is the most decorated.

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Elaine Krugman — Sat, 11 Aug 2012 01:47:49 GMT

Because of Oscar Pistorius... www.nytimes.com/.../ap-oly-ath-pistorius-paralympics.html Oscar Pistorius was definitely the most inspiring Olympian to me. :applaud: NBC did a nice job on a story about him. He was a great interview and seems to be a wonderful guy. Outside of swimming, he is my favorite Olympian! :cheerleader:

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 12:52:04 GMT

. www.nytimes.com/.../racing-against-history.html Slightly off topic, but the graphics are cool. Very neat video. The :45 second 100 seems very plausible given the progression of times.

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 10:55:13 GMT

It is an arguement that is un-winnable. How do you define best? In my opinion it is all subjective criteria. But put any of the great names up, Lewis, Phelps, Bolt etc and all I can say is....I would be happy to take any one of their records. They are all amazing and inspirational

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Brian Stack — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 06:38:38 GMT

Interesting you would mention this subject, which the New York Times seems to have addressed a week ago (www.nytimes.com/.../why-olympic-records-are-broken-or-not.html). I though the author had an interesting take on it, and it sounds similar to the OP's points. Here's a take on the same basic idea but looking only at the 100M Freestyle and the progression of Olympic best times over the history of the Olympics. www.nytimes.com/.../racing-against-history.html Slightly off topic, but the graphics are cool.

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Tue, 07 Aug 2012 13:33:36 GMT

Who is the greatest olympian ever is an question that cannot be answered until the criteria for judging is established. Until then, its a subjective question where simple opinion rules the choice. How do you compare someone with 6 gold medals in Dressage with someone with 6 gold medals in greco-roman wrestling? Attempting to lessen the validity of one sport over the other is incorrect and elitist. The International Olympic Committee determines if a sport is Olympic or Not. They do not assign "weights" to individual sports. While I agree that inner-city children are less likely to engage in competitive swimming due to a lack of available facilities, drawing conclusions about the calibre of current swimmers based on this theory is not sound. Is Michael Phelps the best olympian ever? Stupid question that cannot be factually answered. Does Michael Phelps hold the most olympic medals in current history? That question can be answered factually...

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Sojerz — Tue, 07 Aug 2012 12:19:58 GMT

Is Michael Phelps the best olympian ever? Stupid question that cannot be factually answered. I'm not sure that it's a stupid question and there are lots of facts, but the real issue (as you stated) is what criteria one would use to make a determination of the greatest olympian ever. It's been interesting to hear people's thoughts and have them weigh-in. Dismiss the medal count BS, but not the question. Have we debunked the argument that swimming achievements are in someway not representative of the world's population? There are not many black athletes in the winter olympics; does that mean the winter olympics are somehow discredited? Discrediting swimming on this basis is shallow - ignoring the accomplishments of great athletes like Phelps, Biondi, Hall sr and jr, Spitz, Evans, Sanders, Farrell, Shollander, Weismuller etc. (and others im not thinking of), and it would require discrediting the entire winter olympics and many summer sports that do not have broad socioeconomic representation around the globe. A key olympic concept is to broaden representation, and it's working i think. Clearly, medal count alone is not a good criteria. Beyond counting medals, the criteria become subjective, potentially biased, and opinion based, which is fine and the reason why there is no right or wrong answer. The question is still interesting to discuss and debate, especially if you are an athlete and enjoy the olympics.

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

__steve__ — Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:45:48 GMT

Nathan Adrian would be a more suited comparison to Bolt regarding distance

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Tue, 07 Aug 2012 06:50:04 GMT

Sorry - My use of the term "Stupid Question" was rather rude. But I stand by my statement that the question cannot be answered in any objective manner without a definition of "Greatest Olympian". By extension, I personally dont believe that an objective definition is possible as cross-sport performance comparisons just dont seem viable. Earlier in this thread there was a bit about the runner and the swimmer doing a run/swim event. Adding in the gold medalist from Luge makes the comparison even more "interesting". The OPs point about inner-city children not having access to swimming facilities and thus being under represented in the sport is not lost on me at all.

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Tue, 07 Aug 2012 05:41:12 GMT

I would say Usain Bolt is one of the most dominate Olympians of all time, but only in one or two events. No one can come close to touching him in the 100m dash. He is a bit less dominate in the 200m. Maybe unlikely, but Yohan Blake could beat him. I think Sun Yang is at least as dominate in the 1500m free as Bolt is in the 100m dash. Although Phelps has owned the 100 and 200 fly, his victories haven't been as dominating as Sun and Bolt. I don't think greatest Olympian can be defined by success in one or two events. It must be defined in overall achievement, in which Phelps is head and shoulders above everyone else. Bolt would have to compete in and win more events to be the greatest Olympian.

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

mattson — Tue, 07 Aug 2012 03:54:48 GMT

The "everyone can run" comment can be flipped around. Since swimming is a skill (on top of the athletic component), a case could be made that it is inherently more difficult than running, thus making Phelps achievement more impressive. The smaller pool (pun intended) of competitors (compared to running) is due to that difficulty.

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

AnnG — Tue, 07 Aug 2012 02:08:32 GMT

I don't think Phelps came from an upper class background either. Remember his mother was a working single parent seeking to channel her son's high energy. He started swimming in a group swim program.

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:09:49 GMT

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 12:54:02 GMT

I don't even know what people think they are arguing about with this "greatest ever" stuff. Michael Phelps is rather good at swimming. Agreed?

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

knelson — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 11:27:59 GMT

Swimming is a global sport, though. There were medalists from all six populated continents in London. I'm a bit of a baseball stat fanatic and there's always a debate about who the greatest baseball players in history are. One of the points of contention is how much weight peak value should have compared to career value. How does a guy like Sandy Koufax who had a short career compare with Cy Young, for example? If we look at Olympians in those term I think Phelps really shines. Not only did he win eight medals in a single Olympics, but he also has the most total Olympic medals ever amassed. I don't think there's any way you can successfully argue for anyone being a greater Olympian than Michael Phelps. The only people that do are those who think, for whatever reason, that swimming isn't a "real" sport.

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 11:22:48 GMT

If Bolt could swim 100M in 68 sec I would be very impressed. Same if Phelps could do 100 meters on a track in 18. :) BTW...The movie is called Pride...Pride - Trailer - YouTube

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 11:15:50 GMT

Why should running be the arbiter of what great Olympians are made of? It's not as if he's playing some sport like table tennis where winning is based primarily on skill rather than fitness. Let's take Phelps versus Usain Bolt and do a swim-run race because running is the measuring stick here. They both do a 100 meter dash on the track immediately followed by a 100 meter sprint. Like a biathlon. Winner is the best Olympian. Phelps: 100 meter dash: 18 seconds 100 meter swim: 48 seconds Usain: 100 meter dash: 10 seconds 100 meter swim: 68 seconds Winner Phelps. Best Olympian ever.

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 10:42:38 GMT

Sojerz, I totally agree, and the diversity of phelps is the singular issue that makes me consider him the GOAT in the Olympics 16 Olympic events including relays. Gold medals in 8 different events. Could have medaled in the 100 free the past two Olympics Not unlikely he could have medaled in one or both backstrokes if he trained for Them. He was ranked 10th in the world in the 400 free once upon a time despite not really training for it. Anyone want to bet against him making the team and finaling in that if he chose to? There is no denying Bolts dominance in the 100 and 200, over two olympics. And if he does it again in 2016 then we can revisit this conversation, but he isnt high jumping, long jumpIng, trying the hurdles or the 400. Phelps diversity, longevity and dominance (note his margin of victory in the IMs, 200 free and fly) and his ability to deliver under pressure make him the no brainer as GOAT, even if you throw total medals out. And it drives me nuts when people say "swimming is just swimming, no diversity". Ask them, how many bReastroke gold medal winners medaled in another stroke? How many backstrokers medal in butterfly or free? How many guys are medal contenders in free, back, fly And IM in distances from 100 to 400 meters?

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

__steve__ — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:48:56 GMT

Anybody can swim if they want to. Our two existing local long course pools are located in predominantly black neighborhoods and easily accessible to anyone. This includes economically challenged, or wealthy individuals of every race.

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:34:47 GMT

meh.... none of his olympic feats were longer than 4 minutes.

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

That Guy — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:04:18 GMT

www.usernetsite.com/.../cant-we-all-just-get-along.jpg

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 08:54:47 GMT

Same for bolt, re the relays. It's a stupid argument, I agree. So the best LB in NFL history isn't really the best bc all those south American, European, Russian Nd Australian kids didn't get the chance to play? Not to mention swimming is cheaper than club baseball, hockey, soccer, football, etc...

RE: Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

Former Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 08:48:18 GMT

If he was a mexican he would have missed the relay medals.....