Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Mon, 09 Jul 2012 13:53:53 GMT

Ellis sets very strong standards, the best in the business IMO (I've managed pools for, and trained guards in both Ellis and ARC facilities). The issues of too long work hours and not enough breaks are on the facility owners/management. My guards rotated every 15 minutes on hot days and got 15 minute breaks every hour when we were super busy. They needed them to keep of the required level of attention.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Sat, 07 Jul 2012 14:15:14 GMT

Pretty much says it all. Agreed. That's a good point. For all 7 lifeguards, total, to quit or be fired, get offered their jobs back, and refuse I believe shows that there must have been other problems working here. It doesn't seem right that a bunch of 20 year old kids would spend all that time getting trained and then straight up quit in the middle of the summer. It's hard enough for kids to find jobs as it is. I knew some Ellis lifeguards that worked at a water park. They said it was absolutely awful. They worked 9-10 hours day with a single 30 minute break. In many cases they'd be standing all day unless you were lucky enough to find a rotation that offered a chair. In some positions, you had stand waist deep in water. If you're eyes weren't glued to the pool for a second you'd get in trouble. If your bottom scan wasn't "profound" enough guarding 3" of water in a kiddie pool you'd get in trouble, even if no one was in it. Constant audits as well. Every month Ellis would come through and candidly videotape the guards as an audit. That may have just been the employer, but Ellis was in charge and dictated the rules. I don't see how they can expect lifeguards to keep their focus all day if they're working for 10 hours with one break. I heard it was just miserable working conditions in that case. So I wonder if these guards had these same intense standards. Most lifeguards I see at the beach don't bottom scan. They just stare at the water and talk to each other. At the lap pools, most guards stare off into space. My experience with Ellis wasn't bad. It was at a outdoor lap pool owned by the town. There were a lot of audits, compared to my experience with Red Cross. The knowledge training was much more intense, but for the test I had to only swim 200 yards (Red Cross was 400). I wonder if the town will be resigning with Ellis...

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

orca1946 — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 12:28:22 GMT

I think he did the "right" thing. If more & overlapping posts are needed then it will cost them $$$$, some places will not do this, just basic coverage.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:32:49 GMT

miami.cbslocal.com/.../ ...said Lopez. “Honestly, a job is not as important as a person’s life.” Pretty much says it all.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 09:03:44 GMT

Wonder why two lifeguards were terminated. Hope it's not because during that time they were keeping an eye on Lopez's zone which was outside their zone. :cool:

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

bassboneman — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 02:44:28 GMT

It turns out that the lifeguard actually made sure his area was covered before leaving it. "Now owner Jeff Ellis said they were operating under mis-information and the beach was, in reality, always covered and the lifeguards did what they were trained to do." miami.cbslocal.com/.../ Also, he decided to turn down the offer of getting his job back.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:40:50 GMT

When I first started lifeguarding (Carpinteria CA) in 1964 we didn't have phones in the towers so it was important to keep an eye on the adjoining towers to provide backup if the guard went on a rescue. A couple years later , in San Diego, (where there was much more action) we had phones. If you went out on a rescue you knocked the phone off the hook alerting the main tower who then made sure others were aware that your tower was empty and the jeep would get down to your area to assist. The latest greatest thing on the cutting edge is remote control rescue bouys, blasting through the surf faster than Phelps, and the guy in the tower doesn't even have to get wet! Personal note: They're probably great, but I don't like 'em.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:17:49 GMT

I'll grant that a lifeguard leaving her/his position/zone or whatever could put swimmers at risk who remain within that zone, but wouldn't that also be true if the lifeguard goes to save someone within his/her assigned zone? The focus would be on that one swimmer and someone else could get into trouble at the same time. Was there only one lifeguard assigned to the area? That would be an incident waiting to happen. I seem to recall that lifeguards worked in pairs along ocean beaches, so that there would be a lifeguard at a station in case of an emergency. Even at my pool, there will often be more than one lifeguard. I used to train Ellis lifeguards, zones have overlapping areas of coverage in a pool environment, not sure about open ocean. I do know in Volusia County FL (Daytona Beach area), guards work alone from guard stands set approximately 50 yards apart. In pools when a rescue is being affected, the pool is cleared so all guards can assist with the situation.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 15:37:10 GMT

The "drowning" occurred in an area that was posted as "swim at your own risk". The guard left his zone to assist with the victim, knowing full well it was against policy for him to do so. What would have been REALLY bad was if someone in the "protected zone" drowned while the guard was in the "at risk" zone. Then people might have had a different view of the matter. According to recent postings, the company that fired him is "re-evaluating" their decision. Leaving his zone unprotected the entire time he was off zone is definitely the issue. It will be interesting to see how Ellis handles this.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:36:51 GMT

Utterly Ridiculous! Some people in upper management have no common sense to the point they put lives at risk!!???? What is the liability risk to sit there and watch someone die?

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:16:30 GMT

The news reports are woefully incomplete of course. I could imagine the implication of the stories taht the company was out of line for firing the guard, could be exactly right. On the other hand - suppose the guy went running down the beach to be a hero, when he should have picked up the phone? What if there was another lifeguard closer? A couple of counties up from that beach there is no phone. It's guard stands with flags... leave your chair, drop the flag and hope the next guard up or the main tower sees it. Not enough info to play the blame game.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

orca1946 — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:40:09 GMT

What does the beach in question say about this ???

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

FindingMyInnerFish — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:07:14 GMT

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

smontanaro — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:37:45 GMT

The news report I saw on TV indicated that several other lifeguards resigned to protest the firing. What was the distinction between the "covered" and "at risk" zones? Was it some more-or-less permanent natural feature (rocks, etc) or was it just a sign placed in the sand? If there was no physical difference between the two zones, why wasn't the entire area covered (park/city/hotel boundary, perhaps)?

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Redbird Alum — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:14:21 GMT

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:07:55 GMT

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:42:18 GMT

According to the CNN report he (instead of fellow beachgoers) was the one that did actually pull the man out of water: "Even though he knew it was outside the company protection zone, Lopez ran into the ocean toward the struggling man and pulled him ashore. The man, he said, had turned blue." "he has been offered his job back. But Tomas Lopez told CNN he does not plan to return to work." Even if he broke the rule by leaving his zone and actually saving someone's life, I would think the most the employer should do was to give him a warning, but by no means firing him, even if they did't want to praise him for the lifesaving deed. It would be different if during that time another person in his zone drowned.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

poolraat — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:15:02 GMT

And what about the guard of the zone in which this incident occured? Where was he??? :dunno:

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

FindingMyInnerFish — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 07:57:54 GMT

So the lifeguard does what lifeguards are taught to do: go to the aid of a drowning person. If it's outside his "zone," what happens if a swimmer originally in his zone is pulled out by a current and can't return to the zone? Is this an executable offense?

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 06:23:08 GMT

I used to train Ellis lifeguards, zones have overlapping areas of coverage in a pool environment, not sure about open ocean. I do know in Volusia County FL (Daytona Beach area), guards work alone from guard stands set approximately 50 yards apart. In pools when a rescue is being affected, the pool is cleared so all guards can assist with the situation. Yes, I used to have a Jeff Ellis and Assoc. certification for lifeguarding as well as the Red Cross. JE&A has a much more thorough, specific, and comprehensive program than Red Cross and I believe holds guards to a higher standard. It may have also been my employer too, but this was for an outdoor lap pool. There were daily skills and knowledge audits and required weekly continuing education. First of all, I'm surprised they didn't have overlapping coverage/two guards to monitor. It seems like the lifeguard should have be able to notify other guards to cover his zone. I think they're probably saying the appropriate course of action would have been to clear the water and then leave if he could not adequately occupy his area of the water. I definitely think it is ridiculous that he would lose his job over this. In the heat of a catastrophe react faster than they think. I've seen kids start to drown and it's scary experience. Everyone is looking to you to help or you're the only one that notices. I would see this as a learning opportunity for them to clarify what the best course of action would have been. And maybe they were trying to look for a reason to get rid of him / he's had issues in the past following instructions? Luckily no one got hurt in this situation. But had he not responded and the man drowned, that would be an even worse situation. Even if JE&A said he did the "right" thing not leaving his post, the kid would have to live with that man's death for the rest of his life.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

thrasher — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 03:05:14 GMT

I was also an Ellis certified lifeguard for 5-6 years when I was younger, and one thing we were taught is that you NEVER leave your assigned area. Coverage for the areas under lifeguard authority absolutely requires that the guard in each area maintain oversight in that specific place. This is what allows the aquatic area to remain protected as a whole. If a guard needs to jump in for a save, the long whistle blow signifies that help is needed, and there should be several additional guards who are able to be in the area within 15-20 seconds (could be longer at a very large beach). In my opinion, there should have been a long whistle blow, and he should have waited until there was a guard who could assist in his area before travelling 500 yards for a save. It sounds harsh, but the man WAS swimming in an unsupervised area... I certainly understand the instinct to help, but truly the guard should not have left his post until there was coverage for his area. The safety of the entire aquatic area was likely compromised as a result of his actions. This is ESPECIALLY true in open water environments, which are notorious for being difficult to guard because of the lack of clarity/darkness/uniformity of the water. I would guess that this is why he was ultimately fired, as it is a huge liability risk for the city/county that operates the beach. Was firing him overly harsh? Probably. Will another guard ever leave their post again at this beach? Probably not.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

smontanaro — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 02:35:28 GMT

Luckily no one got hurt in this situation. But had he not responded and the man drowned, that would be an even worse situation. Even if JE&A said he did the "right" thing not leaving his post, the kid has to live with that for the rest of his life. That's an important consideration which I think the employer may have not considered when developing its rules for its lifeguards. I would have classified all the lifeguards I saw on the TV report as "kids". I don't think any of them were more than 20 years old.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:06:34 GMT

Hopefully some places will be eager to hire him to replace lazy and irresponsible guards.

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

Former Member — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:10:09 GMT

The only way this story could be worse is if someone drowned because the lifeguard did follow orders and ignored people drowning outside his "zone."

RE: Lifeguard Fired for Trying to Save Man Outside of His Zone

jswim — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:51:46 GMT

The only way this story could be worse is if someone drowned because the lifeguard did follow orders and ignored people drowning outside his "zone." I agree!