Fly endurance

RE: Fly endurance

knelson — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 12:52:50 GMT

Just leave them at home...it will reduce the temptation to use them if the fins are not available. :) I have to agree. Cold turkey is the best strategy.

RE: Fly endurance

ande — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 01:02:29 GMT

How to build up endurance to swim the 200 fly? I haven't competed in this event in almost 30 years, but I can still do a respectable 50 fly. Is it lost forever, or can I get it back? Or maybe at least the 100 fly? Any training tips or advice? :afraid: mainly train for the 200 & 500 free, do some fly training Learn correct splitting for the 200 fly & what the correct 200 fl effort level feels like build up your fly distance in practice do a 25, then a 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200 swim a fast 200 fly for time in practice once a week improve your SDK

RE: Fly endurance

Calvin S — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 12:21:19 GMT

In terms of sets to do to work on fly, I always found "add-on fly" sets to be the most helpful in working on my fly (especially the 200). examples: 100s in sets of 4, where you go #1-25fly/75free, #2-50fly/50free, #3-75fly/25free, and #4-100fly or 200s the same way but doing it by 50s. For an added challenge, add the fly onto the back end of each distance (so #1 becomes 75free/25fly).

RE: Fly endurance

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 12:08:17 GMT

The above are all good suggestions. And you should also have a coach look at your technique. If you want confidence that you can do a straight 200 fly, you can try the following (I can't remember where I saw this): -- do a 200 where the first stroke off each wall is butterfly and the rest is smooth, easy freestyle -- once you feel you can do that comfortably, add another stroke off each wall -- rinse and repeat The last lap of a 200 fly will be 8-10 strokes for many people, so it doesn't take that long before you are up to a straight 200. Again, this exercise isn't necessary for training purposes, just to convince yourself it is possible. Broken 200s fly are also a possibility. Break them at the 50 with plenty of rest to start with (30 seconds? More?) and over time gradually decrease it until you can do it with 10 sec rest without too much problem. A variation on this -- one that feels more like an actual 200 fly race, IMO -- is to take decreasing amounts of rest on successive 50s. For example: take 15 sec, then 10 sec, then 5 sec after the 1st, 2nd and 3rd 50s of the broken 200. (You don't need to do a lot of these, and take plenty of rest between efforts if you do more than one.) Fly drills are less painful ways of building fly endurance. Try the "single-double-single" drill, where you do multiple cycles of right-arm/double-arm/left-arm/double-arm butterfly. This drill is not as tiring as regular butterfly but it should help build fly endurance. Do a set of (say) 5 x 100 fly drills with plenty of rest between.

RE: Fly endurance

jaadams1 — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 10:06:55 GMT

I think switching to free, one-arm fly, or DPS fly (wherein you take more than 2 kicks per stroke) would be a good adaptation for LCM. As for weaning oneself from fins, well I don't know about that since I never use them. Anyone else have experience there? Just leave them at home...it will reduce the temptation to use them if the fins are not available. :)

RE: Fly endurance

That Guy — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:43:41 GMT

These are great ideas! Now, how to get the courage to swim fly w/out my zoomers? If I leave them at home, I'll just not do fly, most likely! Also can you modify this for a 50m pool, which I train in most mornings? Should I just switch to free at the 1/2 way point, or switch to drill or what? I can go about 37.5 without breaking my stroke right now, when it's LCM. I miss my walls! I think switching to free, one-arm fly, or DPS fly (wherein you take more than 2 kicks per stroke) would be a good adaptation for LCM. As for weaning oneself from fins, well I don't know about that since I never use them. Anyone else have experience there?

RE: Fly endurance

badrunnergoodswimmer — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 07:40:12 GMT

I have same question. 57 yo. Former D3 college swimmer. Back in water for 4 years now after 30 year lay off (stayed in shape, just not swimming). Currently swimming 30-40k SCY per month, 3-4 days per week. Swam 100 fly 30-39 for 109 low last sunday. work outs are +/- 3000 with varied distance sets totaling 800 yds, 50-300 lengths Form is solid, need endurance. You say?

RE: Fly endurance

Celestial — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 06:28:36 GMT

Do repeat 25 flys. Take plenty of rest and work on lowering your stroke count. If your stroke technique starts breaking down, stop swimming fly. Once those 25's become easy (which could take weeks), add some 50's, again taking plenty of rest. Once those 50's become easy, try some 75's. QUOTE] These are great ideas! Now, how to get the courage to swim fly w/out my zoomers? If I leave them at home, I'll just not do fly, most likely! Also can you modify this for a 50m pool, which I train in most mornings? Should I just switch to free at the 1/2 way point, or switch to drill or what? I can go about 37.5 without breaking my stroke right now, when it's LCM. I miss my walls!

RE: Fly endurance

Former Member — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 06:01:52 GMT

How to build up endurance to swim the 200 fly? I haven't competed in this event in almost 30 years, but I can still do a respectable 50 fly. Is it lost forever, or can I get it back? Or maybe at least the 100 fly? Any training tips or advice? :afraid: An interesting set for rebuilding 200m specific endurance/technique is to go: 10-15m @ SDK followed by NAD (No Arm Drill) then 10-15m @ Full Stroke It's a lot of fun, great balance between fitness and technique. Allows for booking massive volumes at Fly. The NAD takes care of the technical aspect, and it's a lot of fun too. Obviously, you first need to learn the NAD. Here are 3 distinct executions: 1 - Very slow, over water view Butterfly NAD Drill - Slow Execution - YouTube 2 - Fast execution, with some SDK Butterfly Kick - NAD (No Arm Drill) Fast - YouTube 3 - Slow execution, underwater view Fly NAD (No Arm Drill) Underwater View - YouTube Note. The NAD can be performed with speed in mind. In this regard, it's more than possible to actually perform this set (10-15m kick / 10-15m stroke) either at slow, moderate, or even race pace. And for that matter, I strongly recommend the use of a tempo trainer. This little guizmo will assist you by providing you with the rate at which you should train. And what's great is that the same Tempo used for the Full Stroke also applies to NAD, since the later is nothing else than Fly without the arms. The fast NAD execution posted above is done at a rate of 76bpm, that is 38 cycles per minute. That, with the dive and the SDK translates into a time of around 42sec for a 50. Therefore at that rate, given that you have enough juice to hold the rate full stroke, you'd be looking at booking full 200m reps under 3min. In comparison, Phelps on his famous fly technique clip performs at 86spm (ie, 43 cycles per minute). I personnally sprint my 50s at a rate that's over 50 cycles per minute. Enjoy!

RE: Fly endurance

vweichert — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 04:51:39 GMT

Thanks for the suggestions! I plan to start using them. Yes, I am 45, and still swim regularly, just not a lot of stroke work in recent years. :applaud:

RE: Fly endurance

Redbird Alum — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 03:49:07 GMT

You didn't give us much information about yourself, other than it's been 30 years, so you must be somewhere near 45 years of age. If you are a regular swimmer, follow the advice above. If you're just getting restarted, make sure to get a health check-up before you undertake this challenge. Better safe than sorry.

RE: Fly endurance

smontanaro — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 03:42:15 GMT

Another approach that works for some people is to treat the 200 like a set of 8 x 25 fly. This week work on 8 x 25 fly with 30 seconds rest. Next week, 8 x 25 fly with 25 seconds rest. And so on until your rest between each 25 is just a couple extra breaths during the turn. At some point what you're doing becomes indistinguishable from swimming a 200 fly, but you know in your mind that you're just swimming 8 x 25. I had a coach back in the day who called these "ideals". Set a realistic target time. Divide that into pieces (say, 8x25 or 4x50) and swim each piece at the target pace with the rest necessary to hold it together. Over time, reduce the rest as you described above. S

RE: Fly endurance

That Guy — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 03:34:30 GMT

Do repeat 25 flys. Take plenty of rest and work on lowering your stroke count. If your stroke technique starts breaking down, stop swimming fly. Once those 25's become easy (which could take weeks), add some 50's, again taking plenty of rest. Once those 50's become easy, try some 75's. 200 fly is probably my best event and I rarely do more than 75 fly at a time. If you get to where you can finish a set like 6 x 75 fly with plenty of rest, you are more than ready to race a 200. Another approach that works for some people is to treat the 200 like a set of 8 x 25 fly. This week work on 8 x 25 fly with 30 seconds rest. Next week, 8 x 25 fly with 25 seconds rest. And so on until your rest between each 25 is just a couple extra breaths during the turn. At some point what you're doing becomes indistinguishable from swimming a 200 fly, but you know in your mind that you're just swimming 8 x 25.

RE: Fly endurance

tjrpatt — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 03:23:36 GMT

Add more middle distance free sets to your workouts. Training for the 200 fly requires similar training needed for the 400 IM, 400 free, etc.