Nutrition questions

RE: Nutrition questions

swimslick — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 05:41:52 GMT

Well i think its pretty hard for anyone to give you good advice on this without knowing a few things....like how much are you swimming? How long have you been at it? What does your daily food intake look like? What are your weight loss goals? etc. Before I started with Masters, I lost almost 20 pounds by simply tracking my calories. I used Sparkpeople.com, set my goals on there, and stuck to the calorie limit they gave me in order to lose the amount of weight I wanted to within a certain time. I added in a little bit more exercise (10 extra mins on the elliptical, 500 more yards during my 1x a week swim), but that weight loss was truly all about counting calories. So that prompted me to join Masters, and I went straight into a 3-4x a week schedule. When I first started, for about six weeks I literally was a BOTTOMLESS PIT. Calorie counting went out the window, and I shoveled SO MUCH food into my mouth and I was still ALWAYS hungry. It was crazy! However, I luckily did not gain (nor lose) any weight. After the first six weeks, my apetite finally seemed to adjust back to normal. Those NEED FOOD NOW cravings dissappeared and I am no longer using a shovel to eat. However, I've been at it for 4 months now and I still have not lost nor gained any more weight. I would be frustrated as heck if it weren't for the fact that the INCHES are falling off my body! I've lost about 1.5 pant sizes thus far while maintaining the same weight, and that is fine by me. I think if I keep at this for a year and started counting calories again (snoooore) I could lose some more pounds, but it will probably only be a handful and that would bring me down to the weight that I was in high school. Who knows, if I continue to train steadily for a few years I probably could get really lean, but that is not an upfront goal of mine for now. So, my point here is to have hope! Keep at it! Its about the long run here, and your key ingredient here may just be time :) If you really want meal replacement type foods, I suggest chocolate milk or greek yogurt, aka, REAL foods. Good luck!

RE: Nutrition questions

swimmerb212 — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 02:17:54 GMT

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 16:06:08 GMT

Non processed food is probably healthier. But diet and weight is about CALORIES. We eat way more calories than other people that is why we are fat. Never doubted that. My point is just that if you eat 5000 kcal of crap every day, month after month, year after year, you will be giving your body loads of food but not the amount of nutrients the body needs. Over a long course of time people on crap diets will be craving more and more calories because they eat but don't get enough nutrients so they are still starving. That's why they're always hungry. If a person eats mainly healthy food, he gives his body the nutrients it needs. If he always eats healthy his body will adjust to the right amount of calories. Long term this works. What you're suggesting is that a person should eat a low amount of calories and feel like crap, and then he will shed the pounds which is true but then what? He will most likely start to eat more food again and gain more weight than before. The healthy eating version won't shed weight within 4 weeks but long term a person who is used to eating 5000 kcal on a junk food diet will start to adjust his calorie intake to the natural calorie intake he needs. People don't have to believe me. It's just MY experience. Maybe if you're a bodybuilder who needs to lose body fat really fast for a specific competition where he needs a really low body fat percentage, the "starve yourself and feel like crap method" works because he only needs to do this for a competition but for the person who wants to stay lean all his life this method sucks because no one can stay on this method without feeling miserable...sorry.

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:41:32 GMT

What's the problem of eating a diet of mainly whole foods and not processed junk? If man made it, don't eat it. If a person eats a diet of whole food like mainly veggies, then fruit, fish, lean meat, legumes, eggs, whole grains, seeds and nuts and maybe dairy as billions of people around the world have eaten for centuries, they stay lean. Billions of Asians prove it. It is only when modern countries like the USA invented convenience food that obesity started to develop. It's funny how the fattest country in the world then wants to teach the rest of the world how to eat right with fad diets like low carb, high fat, Paleo or other theories they come up with to make money. This info just to eat whole natural food isn't new. Jack Lalanne told people this 50 years ago on his tv show. Non processed food is probably healthier. But diet and weight is about CALORIES. We eat way more calories than other people that is why we are fat. Whether they come in the form of twinkies or vegetables makes little difference. It is why fad diets 'work' they just try to trick people into eating less calories without counting calories. Give up carbs, etc. means giving up calories. Eating healthy is great, but you can't get around the calorie issue. If you eat 5000 calories a day of healthy natural food you are still getting fat. Bottomline, no substitute for counting calories. Getting it from natural healthy foods is obviously better than getting it from candy bars but calories are king and the reason I see many a friends diet fail is because they think they can eat healthy and not count calories to reach their goals. Sorry.

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:39:27 GMT

Agree that veggies are good for weight control, but doesn't juicing remove all the fiber? Hehe...that's the first question in the "Answers to common questions about juicing" section of the book I recommended. I'm actually to lazy to type the answer but I personally use a blender and drink the pulp too. I actually make fruit and/or veggie shakes rather than juices but I eat a lot of veggies too.

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:29:53 GMT

No one argues that veggies and fruits aren't good for you... but they do not make up other critical components of a diet, particularly for athletes, the question is, where to get protein from. That is the bigger problem in dieting than eating fruits and veggies which have few calories anyway. What's the problem of eating a diet of mainly whole foods and not processed junk? If man made it, don't eat it. If a person eats a diet of whole food like mainly veggies, then fruit, fish, lean meat, legumes, eggs, whole grains, seeds and nuts and maybe dairy as billions of people around the world have eaten for centuries, they stay lean. Billions of Asians prove it. It is only when modern countries like the USA invented convenience food that obesity started to develop. It's funny how the fattest country in the world then wants to teach the rest of the world how to eat right with fad diets like low carb, high fat, Paleo or other theories they come up with to make money. This info just to eat whole natural food isn't new. Jack Lalanne told people this 50 years ago on his tv show.

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:00:45 GMT

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 13:36:01 GMT

That is exactly it. It's the same reason people lose weight when they alter percentages of fat or carbs or whatever. The only way to lose weight it to eat less food than you normally do. It also helps if the food is whole and nutritious, because it's good fuel. This has been my opinion for years even though low carb gurus want to tell you the opposite. I do believe that the lack of fiber in your diet leads to over-weight though. Many diets contradict each other but what almost all diets(Paleo, low carb, low fat, the Mediterranean, Okinawan etc) have in common is eat a lot of veggies. I think if someone eats tons of veggies he provides his body with enough fiber and nutrients. A good way to get enough veggies is juicing. I drink a veggie/fruit juice every morning as my only breakfast. I would drink a fresh veggie/fruit juice over a protein shake any day. I can recommend this book: Amazon.com: Complete Book of Juicing: Your Delicious Guide to Youthful Vitality (9780761511267): Michael T. Murray: Books

RE: Nutrition questions

Elaine Krugman — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:03:28 GMT

RE: Nutrition questions

fatboy — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:46:41 GMT

I do believe that the lack of fiber in your diet leads to over-weight though. Many diets contradict each other but what almost all diets(Paleo, low carb, low fat, the Mediterranean, Okinawan etc) have in common is eat a lot of veggies. I think if someone eats tons of veggies he provides his body with enough fiber and nutrients. A good way to get enough veggies is juicing. Agree that veggies are good for weight control, but doesn't juicing remove all the fiber?

RE: Nutrition questions

Sojerz — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 07:04:03 GMT

I think the CR article was a previous post by ElaineK, and it can be printed. I've used protein shakes for probalby 50 years, especially when pinched for time. Mine are whey and about 24g of protein per shake, so when i use them i cut the serving in half. Back in the day we also had the drink of astronauts "Tang" too, I suppose in case we wanted to orbit the pool instead of swim in it :). Never tried dairy queens protein shakes, but "Freshen Smoothies and Frozen Treats" actually sells them at a service area on the NJ Turnpike (driving on the NJ Turnpike is a legit sport) and they are good. Will check out DQ's too. should they be used as a staple in your normal diet? Protein shakes seem to be a major component of body building, weight lifting and their associated diets. Their use of protein and other supplements seems complex and carefully managed to me. And, this may not be a good model for the average athlete (esp. HS age) to follow without the required knowledge, experience or coaching that body builders employ. The levels of heavy metals cited in some of these protein shakes are a potential cause for concern. From my experience with drinking water quality and haz waste sites, EPA limits exposure to heavy metals because of toxicity from consumption. I don't recall if any of the metals found by CR are both toxic and also carcinogens, but possibly. Of course, like most substances, "it's the dose that counts". The more you ingest, the higher the dose, and the greater the risk. I don't think the CR article actually looked at the issues of dose and standards exceedance or at the issue of multiple sources (might you also be ingesting these substances from other sources too). Do you want these substances at any level in something you ingest? I don't. It would seem prudent, especially if you are using these shakes as a major diet component, and not just occaisonal supplement, to check out what's in them in addition to protein. While the FDA does not apparretly regulate the protein supplements sold, I think they regulate shakes sold commercially as foods by DQ and others.

RE: Nutrition questions

swimmerb212 — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 06:09:21 GMT

People who lose weight from Paleo usually go from the average junk diet to paleo so they think it's Paleo that works while it's actually just the choice of better foods and the fact that they don't eat junk anymore. That is exactly it. It's the same reason people lose weight when they alter percentages of fat or carbs or whatever. The only way to lose weight it to eat less food than you normally do. It also helps if the food is whole and nutritious, because it's good fuel. I pretty much weigh the same amount as I did before I started swimming four years ago. It's is annoying as all get-out, but I do have significantly improved muscle tone in some places, and I have much better stamina than before, which helps energize me to be enraged when people say, "the weight just fell off as soon as I took up swimming!" :blah: The only success I ever had at losing weight came from logging everything I ate. At first I was counting calories, and trying to stop when I hit a certain number for the day, but eventually it made me more accountable for all those little "this doesn't count" snacks I ate, and made me more aware of the absolute density of foods like granola bars, energy bars and smoothies, which I had been treating as a light snack. I'm not ready to always be hungry again, so I habitually eat a lot to compensate for the calorie loss to swimming.

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 17:04:15 GMT

Protein shakes are controversial - nutrionists seem to indicate they aren't particlularly useful or needed despite all the claims by the companies that make them. Protein is essential to properly recover after a workout, but you can easly obtain the needed proteins and fats from a meal of natural foods. Some concerns about protein shakes were included in a article from Consumer Reports on this forum and referenced a few weeks back (search for it)::worms: Some shakes have been found to contain heavy metals that would not be good if consumed over time. Shake supplements can range in protein levels up to as much as 100g per serving. Your body can only digest 5-9 grams of protein per hour. The rest is then burned to produce glycogen, stored as fat, or excreted. The shakes add unaccounted for calories to your diet at such high levels of protein and much of the protein maybe wasted. Proteins and fats slow digestion and thus slow glycogen repalcement before, during and immediately after workouts. You may want to avoid protein until after the critical glycogen and electrolyte replacement is complete and then get the protein at meals from good lean sources - Salo's book on conditioning indicates about 6-20 g at the next recovery meal. Good lean sources of protein in natural foods are much less expensive - milk, yogurt, eggs, chicken, lean game meat, and range fed beef for instance. You can also get it from veggies, but need to be sure you get all of the required protein amino acids. These supplements are not controlled by the FDA like normal food an drink, there is a real need to carefully research and checkout what your are putting in your body, and you can't rely on the claims of the seller. Caveat emptor. Think the main benefit of protein shakes is it is the easiest way to get high amounts of protein with little overall calories and contrary to hints at it in this thread, calorie deficit is the key to weight loss. I recommend to those who are interested to research bodybuilding diets and cutting cycles. These people are basically 'competitive dieters' They all count calories, they all eat high protein diets, and they all feel lethargic, weaker, etc. after several weeks of dieting. Someone with very poor dietary habits who is very overweight can likely lose significant weight by just eating 'healthy foods' and not counting calories but this is unsustainable and given most people reading this thread are probably already active/health concious to some extent, the reality is, calorie deficit = fat loss, and calorie deficit = less energy, body entering a catabolic state, etc. etc. etc. obviously composing those calories out of quality nutritious foods is helpful but it is not the key to fat loss. calorie restriction is. Period.

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:50:12 GMT

I'm not sure that Paleo is, in fact, based on a 60% fat component. As I stated before, that 60% figure is from a computer generated analysis of what my wife and I actually eat in a day. Neither of us actually set out to eat a Paleo diet (that just happens to describe more or less what we do eat, except that unlike many Paleo adherents, we also eat dairy products and some legumes). If anything, the diet we set out to eat is more along the lines of the one advocated by the Weston A. Price Foundation. As far as health goes, and I'm sure we both agree that that is the primary consideration here, I'm more than 100 pounds lighter than I used to be 8-9 years ago when I followed a "heart-healthy," low-fat diet, I recently had a Berkeley Heart Lab analysis of my cholesterol done that showed all parameters in the "good to excellent range," and I lowered the dosage of the anti-hypertensive medication I have long taken by two-thirds. All this under a doctor's supervision, by the way. I think the biggest issue with long term studies of diets is that they do not normalize for calories accurately. I have yet to see much convincing evidence that the reasons red meat eaters are less healthy is due to the red meat and not due to the likelihood that red meat eaters eat more total calories and lead less healthy lifestyles overall (e.g. if you eat a lot of burgers you probably also eat a lot of fries).

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:47:30 GMT

As for protein shakes, one thing I think no one has mentioned is that the protein source in most is soy, and there are good reasons not to want to consume too much soy in your diet (if you can help it — like HFCS, it's everywhere these days). Incidentally, most of the soy consumed in Asia has been fermented, which is a very different thing. Actually the most common source is by far whey which is derived from milk. Soy is probably also lower on the list than casein another milk derived product.

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 06:18:10 GMT

Although I think that anyone who is overweight most likely does not eat mainly healthy foods. I doubt that anyone ever got overweight from eating too many veggies, fruit, whole grains, fish(like salmon) and lean meat. They most likely eat too much processed food and sugar. Long term only healthy food is what keeps people lean and cravings in check. There is a reason why some societies have mainly lean people and others have an obesity problem.

RE: Nutrition questions

jaadams1 — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 04:24:22 GMT

I think they sell Protien Shakes at Dairy Queen. I get one quite often after an evening practice, and they come in all sorts of flavors. I prefer, caramel, but often get cherry, strawberry, and sometimes peanut butter flavor. Yum!! :bliss:

RE: Nutrition questions

cheakamus — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 04:22:20 GMT

Personally, I don't eat a lot of burgers, mainly because I don't eat wheat and what's the point of a burger without the bun? As a red-meat eater, though, I have to say I probably eat fewer overall calories from red meat now than in the past. That's because the meat I buy now is very expensive — hamburger $6.50/lb direct from the farmer; other cuts, much more — so I tend to eat far smaller portions. I do enjoy fries from time to time, but only those I make myself in the oven. Bottom line, I agree with you. You can't lose weight without reducing calories. Where I differ is that I believe you can cut calories without feeling starved all the time. There are calories, and then there are calories!

RE: Nutrition questions

cheakamus — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 03:09:54 GMT

RE: Nutrition questions

cheakamus — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 03:01:03 GMT

I'm skeptical that a high fat diet like that is healthy. I know that low carb diets and Paleo are "en vogue" nowadays but who knows how healthy they really are. I never heard that Paleo is based on 60% fat though. I'm not sure that Paleo is, in fact, based on a 60% fat component. As I stated before, that 60% figure is from a computer generated analysis of what my wife and I actually eat in a day. Neither of us actually set out to eat a Paleo diet (that just happens to describe more or less what we do eat, except that unlike many Paleo adherents, we also eat dairy products and some legumes). If anything, the diet we set out to eat is more along the lines of the one advocated by the Weston A. Price Foundation. As far as health goes, and I'm sure we both agree that that is the primary consideration here, I'm more than 100 pounds lighter than I used to be 8-9 years ago when I followed a "heart-healthy," low-fat diet, I recently had a Berkeley Heart Lab analysis of my cholesterol done that showed all parameters in the "good to excellent range," and I lowered the dosage of the anti-hypertensive medication I have long taken by two-thirds. All this under a doctor's supervision, by the way.

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:50:06 GMT

There are lots of ways to lose (not "loose" :nono:) weight out there, and believe it or not, losing weight does not always mean having to feel hungry. My wife and I both eat a 60% fat, 20% protein, 20% carbohydrate diet that is both healthy and incredibly satisfying (fat in food increases the sense of satiation). Both of us have lost significant amounts of weight and sustained that loss over time. Google "paleo" or "primal" + "diet" and you'll find plenty of information. I'm skeptical that a high fat diet like that is healthy. I know that low carb diets and Paleo are "en vogue" nowadays but who knows how healthy they really are. I never heard that Paleo is based on 60% fat though. I tried out both: Low carb a la John Berardi and Paleo. I felt like crap on both, especially on Berardi's diet. I also tried a vegan diet and felt better and more energetic than on both of these diets. I didn't lose an ounce while on Paleo because my regular diet contains many natural foods anyway. It's like Paleo except I include legumes, whole grains and dairy. People who lose weight from Paleo usually go from the average junk diet to paleo so they think it's Paleo that works while it's actually just the choice of better foods and the fact that they don't eat junk anymore. I didn't try the diets out because I was over-weight(my average weight is about 150 lbs at 5ft 9 1/2) but just to see what they're about. I advise to eat a diet high in veggies, moderate fruit and whole grains, legumes, eggs, fish(like salmon), seed, nuts, dairy(optional) and occasionally meat. Avoid sugar and processed food.. This kind of diet regulates a natural appetite, has worked for millions and isn't a fad diet that will be out of fashion in ten years. See: Mediterranean and Okinawa diet. For me weight loss isn't the only important thing but also health. I also wanted to add that exercise burns enough fat as well no matter what you eat. I find it hard to believe that someone who exercises intensively doesn't lose weight. The crappiest diet I ever had was when I was a bike messenger because of the lack of time. I cycled 10 hours a day and mostly ate CARBS, junk food like 3 Whoppers, 3 large fries at one meal, and a huge pizza for dinner with several beer and was leaner than lean(long term this diet is just unhealthy). After I suddenly stopped this work, I gained 20 lbs in 3 weeks. If swimming alone doesn't do the job, intensive bodyweight exercises like boxers train, will do the job. I was the most ripped when I did this in addition to my swimming. Obviously you have to watch the amount you eat but not to the point that you're starving all the time. You'll probably lose more muscle mass than fat if you starve yourself. In other words: calorie restriction, healthy high fiber food and the right exercise works best from my experience.

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:14:23 GMT

No. (period) Yes(period)

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:44:40 GMT

Untrue. You just have to eat the right things: unprocessed highly nutritious food. People who are always hungry are hungry from eating too much food that lacks nutrients. Here's a good list: www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php No. (period)

RE: Nutrition questions

Former Member — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:04:01 GMT

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but if you aren't hungry while dieting, you are unlikely to lose significant weight... 'hardly eating and feeling like crap' is by far the most effective way to lose weight... Untrue. You just have to eat the right things: unprocessed highly nutritious food. People who are always hungry are hungry from eating too much food that lacks nutrients. Here's a good list: www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

RE: Nutrition questions

Sojerz — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:25:48 GMT

Protein shakes :) Protein shakes are controversial - nutrionists seem to indicate they aren't particlularly useful or needed despite all the claims by the companies that make them. Protein is essential to properly recover after a workout, but you can easly obtain the needed proteins and fats from a meal of natural foods. Some concerns about protein shakes were included in a article from Consumer Reports on this forum and referenced a few weeks back (search for it)::worms: Some shakes have been found to contain heavy metals that would not be good if consumed over time. Shake supplements can range in protein levels up to as much as 100g per serving. Your body can only digest 5-9 grams of protein per hour. The rest is then burned to produce glycogen, stored as fat, or excreted. The shakes add unaccounted for calories to your diet at such high levels of protein and much of the protein maybe wasted. Proteins and fats slow digestion and thus slow glycogen repalcement before, during and immediately after workouts. You may want to avoid protein until after the critical glycogen and electrolyte replacement is complete and then get the protein at meals from good lean sources - Salo's book on conditioning indicates about 6-20 g at the next recovery meal. Good lean sources of protein in natural foods are much less expensive - milk, yogurt, eggs, chicken, lean game meat, and range fed beef for instance. You can also get it from veggies, but need to be sure you get all of the required protein amino acids. These supplements are not controlled by the FDA like normal food an drink, there is a real need to carefully research and checkout what your are putting in your body, and you can't rely on the claims of the seller. Caveat emptor.