How often should I swim/train?

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Former Member — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:25:41 GMT

5 x 200 fly?!! Wowie. I did 4 x 100 on like 4:30 instead of 8:00...I gave myself basically 3 minutes of rest. I was only really able to do 4 of them on 1:13. But of course I wondered if I rested more, I could have sprinted faster. I was also in a lap lane so I felt bad not swimming for 6 minutes and just standing there. Haha.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Former Member — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 06:05:39 GMT

I've been following this thread because I think it relates to me. I too wonder at the line between training enough/over training. Here is what I am doing this year (started in mid-Sept) and while I am finding it tiring, I'm going to wait till the end of November before I decide if it's too much. I joined a masters team for the first time last year (swam one year in college many many years ago (I'm 35 :afraid:)). I joined the masters team nearest to me, but they only practice three times a week. I added "swims" by swimming about 5 times a week at the local pool in "lane swim" time. (Some days fast guys would show up and we'd do 3 -4 km with sets like 8x200m on 3:00, but other days, not so much. Two of them I reserved for recovery/technique/thinking swimming slow/drills, kick, etc..) Doing the above for about a year, I decreased my 100m time by 5 seconds to 1:05. (which coincidentally, was my college time). This year, in an effort to continue to improve (my lifetime goal is to swim 100m in under a minute*), I've stepped up my practices by joining a second masters team which practices 5 times a week. SO I swim: Mon AM - 1.5 hours (team A) Mon PM - 1.5 hrs (team B) Tues - REST Wed - AM (team A) - 1.5 hrs Wed - PM (team B) - 1.5 hrs Thurs PM (team B) -2 hrs Friday PM (team B) - 2hrs Sat AM (team A) - 1.5 hrs Sun AM (team B) - 2 hrs Avg weekly meterage has been b/w 30-35km. Both teams have great coaches and fast& fun swimmers to challenge myself against. Sometimes I've gotten unlucky in the doubles where team a and b have very similar practices and then I really suffer in the second, but in general, it's been ok. (Mentally it can be REALLY tough though, to feel like you're kinda sucking at it) I do miss my two swims a week which were slow/technical/thinking swimming. I have considered adding them back in Thurs and Fri morning, but really, I also feel like I'm swimming enough and don't want to burn out. So anyway. I'm older than you, and that's what I'm doing. Ask me in a few months if I recommend it. :) I definitely recommend what I did last year, but I wanted to step it up a bit. * I'm a bit weird with my goals. My goal is not precisely to swim 100 meters sub a minute. It is to swim with technique that is good enough to swim 100 meters under a minute. I have picked one minute because that is what my gut tells me I could do if my technique was as good as I could possibly make it. But I could be wrong. :)

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Former Member — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 08:33:36 GMT

You may be overtraining. I was just reading Rowdy's website and it mentions that he trains 8,000 yards a day 6 days a week. At the age of 52 that has to be taken as pretty close to the max that anyone could do, so perhaps you may not be overtraining.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Allen Stark — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 02:01:24 GMT

I read an article (by Treffene) a while back that apparently found that sprinters (those with a relatively higher percentage of fast twitch vs slow twitch) tended to have an anaerobic threshold that was 75% of critical velocity (think "top speed"), while for the distance folks it was 95% of critical velocity. Does this mean that distance swimmers can train "faster" (relative to their best times) than sprinters, but that sprinters are actually in a lot more pain? Yes.That was mentioned in a recent article in the ASCA magazine.Since sprinters are doing more anaerobic work their muscles are hurting more.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Former Member — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 15:25:39 GMT

Now, this is a good discussion. Which set is more painful? Excluding the fly nonsense, I'm not sure. Do both today and report back please. I read an article (by Treffene) a while back that apparently found that sprinters (those with a relatively higher percentage of fast twitch vs slow twitch) tended to have an anaerobic threshold that was 75% of critical velocity (think "top speed"), while for the distance folks it was 95% of critical velocity. Does this mean that distance swimmers can train "faster" (relative to their best times) than sprinters, but that sprinters are actually in a lot more pain?

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Former Member — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 13:44:58 GMT

#1 most painful set known to mankind. At #4, I am loading my gun to end the misery.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

knelson — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:19:19 GMT

Go here: forums.usms.org/blog.php Also you can easily get there from the forums. Look for the "Blogs" link in the blue top bar. Pick "Blog List" and you'll get a list of all the blogs. It's by posted date, so you may need to go down a page or two if they haven't updated recently. There are plenty of other people with good blogs, so check 'em out!

RE: How often should I swim/train?

aquageek — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:56:35 GMT

I understand one should train as they race, and such an approach would be learning how to loose painfully, but biologically, would pushing yourself beyond reason such as this provide any positive training effect? Learning how to suffer is a big part of my training, so yes.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

__steve__ — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:51:11 GMT

I'm curious, if you were to do the mentioned set of 5X100 on 8:00 at the suggested pace of suffering by #3 and completed everything accordingly as you thought was planned having no clue what soon will be prescribed. While finishing the last one expecting to finally get relief at the wall you were suddenly ordered to make it a 150 instead with no rest. This extra 50 would be at maximum effort of whatever you have remaining, or else! I understand one should train as they race, and such an approach would be learning how to loose painfully, but biologically, would pushing yourself beyond reason such as this provide any positive training effect?

RE: How often should I swim/train?

aquageek — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:33:15 GMT

...but that sprinters are actually in a lot more pain? If by pain you mean endless whining, then yes, yes indeed.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

ande — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:23:43 GMT

Yes, I'm on a masters team! They are pretty great with their workouts but we do different things everyday. Once a week I get a sprint freestyle day so that's when I really try to get in my sprint time. In terms of swimming fast at practice, I always try to get in a lane that's faster than me so I'm always trying to catch up to people, which forces me to swim faster. The hard part is, each day when I go to practice, we are working on different things, such as one day IM, one day is distance...so they are not 100s fast all the time. But you're right, at the same time, I cannot swim that hard everyday...I think that's how I injured myself. I feel like I don't know the line between working too hard where it's unproductive vs training hard and making myself faster. I felt like I was working too hard in the past because that's how I hurt my shoulder. I haven't been doing too much weights but I know I should. Once or twice a week maybe? I can currently do 10 x 100s on 1:30 which allows me 5 seconds rest. My best 100 yards free time is 1:07. My goal of 1:02 is a super long term goal, so maybe I should start with something simple like trying to get to a 1:04 in the next two years. Is that reasonable? Howdy Helen, Yes, I'm on a masters team! GOOD They are pretty great with their workouts but we do different things everyday. Once a week I get a sprint freestyle day so that's when I really try to get in my sprint time. OK In terms of swimming fast at practice, I always try to get in a lane that's faster than me so I'm always trying to catch up to people, which forces me to swim faster. The hard part is, each day when I go to practice, we are working on different things, such as one day IM, one day is distance...so they are not 100s fast all the time. you don't need to do fast 100's all the time in practice plus ironically doing fast 100's in practice may actually prepare you for longer events. Seriously, work on your 25, 50, & 75 swimming and kicking speed I feel like I don't know the line between working too hard where it's unproductive vs training hard and making myself faster. I haven't been doing too much weights but I know I should. Once or twice a week maybe? weights can help, but be careful, start out easy I can currently do 10 x 100s on 1:30 which allows me 5 seconds rest. work to improve that My best 100 yards free time is 1:07. OK, what are your 25 & 50 times? What kind of suit did you wear when you did it you say: My goal of 1:02 is a super long term goal but you might be able to get there quicker than you think you're young, you'll respond to training, work on speed, technique, correct splitting, and racing. how's your kick? what are your kicking times for 25, 50, 75 & 100? How's your SDK? Swim fast in practice Kick fast in practice Get Strong Train to race have fun you can surprise yourself

RE: How often should I swim/train?

aquageek — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:08:11 GMT

5 x 200 on a similar interval can be worse. Especially if you man up and do it fly. Now, this is a good discussion. Which set is more painful? Excluding the fly nonsense, I'm not sure. Do both today and report back please.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 10:58:27 GMT

5 x 200 on a similar interval can be worse. Especially if you man up and do it fly.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Speedo — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 09:14:14 GMT

#1 most painful set known to mankind.Yes, I'd say by #3 you'll be rubbin the rosary.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

aquageek — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:28:21 GMT

5x100 on 8:00 #1 most painful set known to mankind.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Former Member — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 13:36:28 GMT

Thanks! Where can I find Fortress and Speedo's blogs? I am new to this whole thing! ;-)

RE: How often should I swim/train?

knelson — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 10:33:59 GMT

5 x 100 on 8:00?!! That's like...6 minutes and 30 seconds of rest? I'm not saying you'll want to do a set like this all the time, but it's probably a great benchmarking kind of set. I have a feeling by that fifth 100 you'll be very grateful to have that much rest! A caveat is that I personally never train like this, but sprinting is not my specialty. I agree that Fortress' blog would be a great resource for you. Also take a look at Speedo's. He been concentrating on sprinting this season and swimming some very times in practice swims.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:32:36 GMT

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:35:46 GMT

I think Kirk was right in asking your age. 27 year olds still have magical recovery and healing capabilities. :) But a day off is still a good strategy regardless. Some people alternate between higher intensity days and active recovery days. And they seem to adjust quite well to 5 or 6 days a week of practice month after month. Us swimmers tend to be highly self-motivated athletes and it's fairly easy to work one's self too hard which can lead to injury. At the end of the day, I think most people will discover when they have reached their limits. A higher than normal resting heart rate and muscle soreness that doesn't go away after a day off are a couple of warning signs that the work load might be too much. ...Fortress's blog is a great resource for your specific question about training.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:03:00 GMT

Thanks, that's helpful. Because I have no idea how to really train for the 100 freestyle. Is there any blog or articles or advice on what kind of sets to do to train for 100 free? 5 x 100 on 8:00?!! That's like...6 minutes and 30 seconds of rest? Oh man...should I rest less? I guess I just have no idea how much rest. I am so bad at this! But I guess I should try it and see how fast I can go...and how consistent with that much rest.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

knelson — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 11:03:12 GMT

Don't do a set like 10 x 1:30 very often. It won't help your 100 free much and isn't a good indicator set. I agree. Your ability to hold 1:25s on 10x100 on 1:30 really gives me no idea how fast you can go on a maximum effort 100. Now, something like 5x100 on 8:00 as fast as possible tells me a lot more. If your goal is 1:04, but you can't go faster than 1:10 on these then it tells me you've still got some work to do to achieve your goal. Of course when you are swimming with a team you can't always do exactly what you want to do, but most coaches are open to individuals or lanes altering things as long as you aren't messing up those who are doing the workout as written. Just look at Ande's blog. He's pretty much the master of tweaking workouts to fit his goals.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

The Fortress — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 10:30:36 GMT

I'd say it's very reasonable. Definitely reasonable. Don't work out 7 days a week. Be sure to take a rest day. Don't kill yourself every practice. Every practice should have a specific purpose -- hard aerobic/sprint/lacate/recovery. Don't always do the practice as written. Distance day is not going to help you get a faster 100 free. Consider cutting the distance on the intervals and doing some sprint work that day if you can. If you can't, do some speed work in a solo practice. Don't just do sprint work once a week. Try twice a week. To really sprint, you need plenty of rest between hard efforts. Don't do a set like 10 x 1:30 very often. It won't help your 100 free much and isn't a good indicator set. Work on your kicking. Do drylands at least 2x week. If you do them more, you might have to go down to 5 swims, which is perfectly good. Weights have helped me avoid shoulder problems. Power, speed and strength are your friends for fast freestyle. Lot of moderate aerobic work or junk yardage won't make you faster.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

knelson — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 10:11:47 GMT

My best 100 yards free time is 1:07. My goal of 1:02 is a super long term goal, so maybe I should start with something simple like trying to get to a 1:04 in the next two years. Is that reasonable? I'd say it's very reasonable.

RE: How often should I swim/train?

Former Member — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:59:07 GMT

#1 question: How old are you?

RE: How often should I swim/train?

ande — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:06:01 GMT

here's the gist you feel like you're training without any idea of how to get to where you want. your goal is to drop 5 seconds in your 100 freestyle how to get there? Is swimming everyday the key? it has LESS to do with number of times you workout AND MORE about what you're actually doing during practice. what should you be doing? Dear Swimming in the DARK, Step in to the light, you're trying to get there. There being "a 5 sec improvement in your 1 fr time" 1) identify HERE what are your times for 25, 50, & 100 free? what is your height? weight? age? what sort of sets do you do? What intervals can you hold does your shoulder still hurt? what kind of suit did you wear when you test your times? Describe your weight program