Ultramarathon

RE: Ultramarathon

pmccoy — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 09:09:58 GMT

How do you slow down fly. Take longer glide or slower turnover? or?Stretch out and glide after the recovery. Stroke rate will come down on it's own. I try to focus on my kick so I can stay flatter and avoid plowing through the water.

RE: Ultramarathon

Former Member — Thu, 01 Sep 2011 11:09:19 GMT

If I want to swim over 200m of fly I slow down the stroke rate (slower pull, recovery, and add very short glide), focus on keeping the arms low on recovery, try to keep the body position flat (don't dive down when your hands enter), and breathe every stroke. Keeping the recovery low and body position flat is important for shorter distances also. With practice the distance you can swim will increase significantly. A couple weeks ago I swam 750m fly in a lake wearing a board shorts style swimsuit.

RE: Ultramarathon

Former Member — Thu, 01 Sep 2011 10:35:01 GMT

How do you slow down fly. Take longer glide or slower turnover? or?

RE: Ultramarathon

Former Member — Thu, 01 Sep 2011 09:16:00 GMT

Frankly my goal for the 40 mile at this point is just to finish. If i do that and like it then i'll think about ramping up distance and speed, but for now completion is the goal. I've done a half-marathon and my first triathlon was a half-ironman. I realize this is a whole different kind of event which is why i'm allowing myself a whole year to complete it. And who knows if i feel really good I could just keep going and complete a 100k but I figured i'd aim low first being my first one. Also I may try to do a few smaller ones in between this is more just preliminary planning. Some said they thought it would cause my swimming to be worse by causing some strength in the muscle to waste away in favor of endurance.

RE: Ultramarathon

pmccoy — Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:58:22 GMT

Now I can do several repeat 100's before the piano falls (as long as i have a min rest or so in between). Sounds like you are just about there. Have you tried smaller intervals with less rest? Maybe 8 x 25 on :30 or 4 x 50 on 1:00 (descend). 200 fly is tough at full speed. Developing a quick pace that doesn't burn you out after 100 yards makes it a lot easier. I know what you mean though... fly is much smoother at a faster pace; at least is was for me. Turns out I was using a weaker kick for "easy" fly which ended up killing my momentum and sinking my hips. Now, I kick harder but stretch out and glide more to give my arms more time to recover. It isn't the prettiest stroke but it gets me way past 200 yards without much pain.

RE: Ultramarathon

orca1946 — Thu, 01 Sep 2011 06:10:36 GMT

Slow down the fly to go the distance . You don't sprint the distance running so do that with fly. Last year I went 1,000 fly at the end of practice!!:applaud:

RE: Ultramarathon

aztimm — Thu, 01 Sep 2011 05:54:38 GMT

Some said they thought it would cause my swimming to be worse by causing some strength in the muscle to waste away in favor of endurance. I've managed to train for 2 marathons so far (working on a 3rd now) while running and swimming. I don't do nearly the mileage that lefty described above, I'd guess 35 to 45 miles/week, then another 10 to 12 miles/week of swimming. I try to keep my long run 12-15 miles, building to a peak of 20 before a marathon race. But a marathon is quite different than a 40 mile trail run. I haven't had any strength waste away, but then again I also lift weights. I watch my diet, eat a little more protein, and I'm still making breakthroughs in swimming. Again, these are personal breakthroughs, compared with what I've done in the past. My cousin does ultra races (he did a 150 mile 2 months ago). He runs crazy amounts; he runs to/from work every day (5 miles each way x 5 days/week), plus a long 20-40 mile run over the weekend, and sometimes does a longer run or 2 during the week. He told me to keep things relaxed, keep a nice conversational pace (depending on the run), keep proper form, and breathe properly.

RE: Ultramarathon

aztimm — Thu, 01 Sep 2011 01:42:52 GMT

What are you doing for running now? What is your goal for the 40 mile? I wouldn't quite call that an ultra, but it is quite a bit. My freestyle has gotten significantly faster since I re-started running, but my breaststroke has gotten a little slower. For the freestyle, I think it is due to the weight loss (about 20 pounds), and *** is mostly because I just don't swim as much of it anymore. Neither is or was anywhere near top 10 times, but some of the *** isn't too far from NQT's. Have you done any running races yet? You may want to start with a half, then a full marathon, then the 40 mile. Trail running is nearly a whole other sport. You really have to have strong ankles, and you'll need to spend some time with a stool doing box jumps, step-ups, ladder drills, and probably leg weights too. I swim and run, and I've long since realized that I'm not going to be an elite at either. I do them mostly to stay in decent shape, and to have a little fun. Look at my blog if you want more details of what I do.

RE: Ultramarathon

Former Member — Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:15:48 GMT

Yes. Way too much stress on your body. Maybe in the 200 fly it won't hurt as bad as your cardio will remain good but you can expect to lose significant amount of upper body muscle which I'm sure would hurt the 100 fly.

RE: Ultramarathon

Former Member — Wed, 31 Aug 2011 07:04:06 GMT

Never done a 200 fly period in practice or a meet although I'm starting to get within daylight of the goal. Several months ago I couldn't swim 75-85 yds of a 100 without dying. Now I can do several repeat 100's before the piano falls (as long as i have a min rest or so in between). Actually my butterfly is probably as fast as my freestyle which i know means my freestyle sucks. I think my problem swimming the 200 fly would be maintaining a slow tempo. It just seems that fly is so much smoother when swum faster at least for me.

RE: Ultramarathon

Former Member — Wed, 31 Aug 2011 06:23:20 GMT

I do love running and triathlons too. While swimming will probably always be my main focus it is something I want to accomplish before I'm not able to. The 200 fly is kind of a short-term goal while the 40 mile trail ultramarathon is a year away goal.

RE: Ultramarathon

Former Member — Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:05:25 GMT

What is your focus? Running or Swimming. If you want to run the ultra properly you would need (weekly): 2 or 3 light 3-5 miles jogs 2 8-12 mile runs 1 20-30 mile run Total Mileage should be 40-70 miles per week depending where you are in the training cycle. There is no way to maintain a swimmers body with that kind of running. The best you can hope for is to do some warm up swims on the light jog days. You have to pick one. Really.

RE: Ultramarathon

pmccoy — Wed, 31 Aug 2011 02:54:56 GMT

The 200 fly is kind of a short-term goal while the 40 mile trail ultramarathon is a year away goal. Are you looking at knocking off a 200 fly in practice or do you have a timed goal for a meet? Some of the posters here could probably help get you there pretty quick (not me... all I could do is tell you I got there somehow).

RE: Ultramarathon

pmccoy — Wed, 31 Aug 2011 02:11:55 GMT

Would it be very detrimental to my swimming if I trained and did one of these? Read the book "Born to Run" and really want to do at least one ultramarathon. However, I still want to improve on swimming especially getting better in 100 fly and eventually working up to 200 fly. Thoughts? I don't see how an ultramarathon or training for it is going to improve your fly. Might help you manage pain better. So long as you don't do any permenant damage to your body in the process, you should be able to work back to your current level once you stop ultramarathoning. What are the risks? Is there potential for long term damage to your body? Are the risks worth it? Do you need to cross "ultramarathon" off the list of things you want to do before you die? Are you passionate about long distance running? I have a bad habit of playing soccer and occasionally, I get tripped while running full speed. One day I may seriously injure myself and be limited with some/all of the strokes I swim. But I love the game as much as I love swimming. The risk is worth it to me.