When you are not swimming...

RE: When you are not swimming...

AnnG — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 05:53:46 GMT

I am a big fan of my sleep in day.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Former Member — Mon, 22 Aug 2011 06:39:05 GMT

I am a HS swim coach and also swimmer. Morning before school I have my kids doing p90x. Not all of the different days but Plyo, Chest and Back, Arms and shoulders, legs and back with stretch bands/chords...NO WEIGHTS. As for myself I am on deployment in the middle east til May and when I can I go 2 a day's...swim and p90x I take advantage of it. That is when I have the opportunity. Sometimes I can't swim and I focus on my cardio. But I have dropped 32 lbs. Went from 257 in May down to 225. I am 6'3" and when I get off deployment I want to be around 215 so I can focus on World Master's games.

RE: When you are not swimming...

bcoomes — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:37:28 GMT

I alternate swimming with inline skating. These two activities do not seem to me to be as mutually beneficial as some of those suggested by others, but I enjoy both and each allows me to recover somewhat from the other. Life is too short to do things, at least optional things, that you do not enjoy. Now if I was an elite skater or swimmer, my perspective would probably be different.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Former Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:14:44 GMT

Starts and turns, yes; kicking, no. This may be true for freestyle, backstroke and butterfly, but my breaststroke has definitely benefited from squats and deadlifts.

RE: When you are not swimming...

swimshark — Fri, 19 Aug 2011 12:49:09 GMT

Not true for fly and back sprints either in my experience. My times have dropped after adding these and other lower body exercises. Also, if you're kicking 10-15 meters underwater, the distinction between turning and kicking is blurred. Although I am no where near Fort's times, I can second what she said. When I started with my current team, I added in their dry land of running, jump ropes, torpedo jumps, etc. And I started dropping time.

RE: When you are not swimming...

The Fortress — Fri, 19 Aug 2011 12:30:42 GMT

This may be true for freestyle, backstroke and butterfly, but my breaststroke has definitely benefited from squats and deadlifts. Not true for fly and back sprints either in my experience. My times have dropped after adding these and other lower body exercises. Also, if you're kicking 10-15 meters underwater, the distinction between turning and kicking is blurred.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Former Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2011 11:47:57 GMT

Wearing a speedo, cap and goggles while you lift weights doesn't make it swimming. I thought that made it more functional :( Cross-training to me means, well, doing the wrong ****ing sport. Common ones suggested for swimming are: running, biking, rowing, kayaking. These are all pretty similar activities in that they involve endurance in a particular repetitive movement. The repetitive movement is not the one you actually want to improve, and you also are not working on any other qualities besides endurance, which you should get from, you know, swimming. Like Touretski said, more opportunities to practice correct technique. And I don't know any seriously fast swimmer who has added one of these endurance activities to his or her training and said something to the effect of "Boy, my times really started to drop when I started to do more jumping jacks and less swimming!" Strength training, on the other hand, is not a sport. It's too broad and vague to be a sport. Which is perfect because it can be designed specifically around the exact qualities lacking from just swim training, and zero irrelevant or redundant activities are needed.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 19 Aug 2011 09:57:41 GMT

Common ones suggested for swimming are: running, biking, rowing, kayaking. These are all pretty similar activities in that they involve endurance in a particular repetitive movement. I don't agree that these are strictly endurance (aerobic) activities. Have you not seen the legs on pro cyclists? I think they are plenty strong. Of course, cycling, though repetitive like swimming, has a much wider variety of resistance due to hills and the ability to change gears. Doing hill sprints builds plenty of strength and lactate tolerance. While I think weight-lifting (which is certainly a competitive sport, of course) is great for upper-body power in swimming, I am much less certain of the value of squats, lunges, deadlifts (etc) for improving kicking ability. Starts and turns, yes; kicking, no. Because of back injuries there have been long stretches of time where I have been unable to do any of those exercises, and there was no effect at all on my kicking ability. And -- to use your own example -- adding them did not suddenly make my kick times drop.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Former Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:58:01 GMT

Cross-training to me means, well, doing the wrong ****ing sport. Strength training, on the other hand, is not a sport. I like how you redefined two common terms to defend your position. That is thinking outside the box.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 19 Aug 2011 05:33:01 GMT

I like how you redefined two common terms to defend your position. That is thinking outside the box. It depends what "is" is.

RE: When you are not swimming...

The Fortress — Fri, 19 Aug 2011 04:08:17 GMT

Seems to me (without going back and looking) that you have a lot of confounding factors in your training: increase in various exercises as well as increased use of fins and kicking workouts. In terms of useful strength training for kicking, I personally would be apt to place fin-work far above anything in the weight room. This is true to a degree. However, I have been kicking and kicking with fins for years and have had to decrease my monofin use in the past year b/c of a foot injury. And my underwaters have improved even more this past year (perhaps the nose clip and plyometrics are at work here -- another confounding factor). Still, I think the lower body work helped quite a bit. I recall quite distinctly that shortly after I started a more serious weight training program in 2008, at Jazz's urging, I dropped a lot of time. Prior to that, I had never done a squat or deadlift in my life.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 19 Aug 2011 02:27:51 GMT

My times have dropped after adding these and other lower body exercises. Also, if you're kicking 10-15 meters underwater, the distinction between turning and kicking is blurred. Seems to me (without going back and looking) that you have a lot of confounding factors in your training: increase in various exercises as well as increased use of fins and kicking workouts. In terms of useful strength training for kicking, I personally would be apt to place fin-work far above anything in the weight room. I don't quite understand the turning/kicking comment. Pushoff and kicking seem pretty well delineated, and the motions don't seem too similar.

RE: When you are not swimming...

The Fortress — Thu, 18 Aug 2011 10:54:05 GMT

Wearing a speedo, cap and goggles while you lift weights doesn't make it swimming. I think Jazzy's definition of cross-training excludes things he believes are critical to swimming fast. Of course, this definition has floodgates potential. :)

RE: When you are not swimming...

jaadams1 — Thu, 18 Aug 2011 10:46:26 GMT

Wearing a speedo, cap and goggles while you lift weights doesn't make it swimming. That is funny :rofl:

RE: When you are not swimming...

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 18 Aug 2011 06:15:29 GMT

I don't cross-train. Wearing a speedo, cap and goggles while you lift weights doesn't make it swimming.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Former Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2011 13:54:07 GMT

The scientific method is so overrated. Well designed studies are too.

RE: When you are not swimming...

orca1946 — Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:26:46 GMT

Every "study" has another that says an idea that is 180 from the other. there are lies, damn lies & studies!! :2cents:

RE: When you are not swimming...

Former Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:09:01 GMT

Pithy, but a little surprising since you spend about 50% of your time cross-training. I don't cross-train.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Former Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2011 08:59:24 GMT

I agree with everyone else,get to the gym and do some cardio. For me this really helps me have great endurance in the pool. Also strength training is benificial as long as you have good technique. Many YMCA have someone who can help you learn the equipment. Also an area that I am lacking is flexibility,so yoga or pilaties would help. I find the older I get I have to work a little harder to maintain for swimming.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Chris Stevenson — Wed, 17 Aug 2011 08:22:49 GMT

Cross-training should be called Doing the Wrong ****ing Sport. Pithy, but a little surprising since you spend about 50% of your time cross-training. Every "study" has another that says an idea that is 180 from the other. there are lies, damn lies & studies!! :2cents: The scientific method is so overrated.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Chris Stevenson — Tue, 16 Aug 2011 12:50:19 GMT

NYT article on the benefits -- or not -- of cross-training (not just about swimming): www.nytimes.com/.../16best.html WRT swimming, Tanaka's statement that only in-water strength training has been found effective is contradicted in a study posted by Jazz in another thread: www.teamunify.com/.../EFFECTS OF DRY-LAND VS. RESISTED- AND.pdf The NYT article is fine for the most part, though pretty superficial, as is typical for a newspaper article. I did smile at this statement, towards the end: "he concluded that the only way to prevent running injuries is not to run." No wonder people sometimes complain about funding scientific research. :)

RE: When you are not swimming...

Former Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2011 11:48:34 GMT

NYT article on the benefits -- or not -- of cross-training (not just about swimming): www.nytimes.com/.../16best.html Cross-training should be called Doing the Wrong ****ing Sport.

RE: When you are not swimming...

swimshark — Mon, 15 Aug 2011 07:50:08 GMT

And I am saying that this is incorrect. The problem is a shortened muscle, not an over developed muscle. If you can't touch your toes, is it because your hamstrings are over developed, or your hamstrings are shortened (lack flexibility/elasticity)? It is possible it is the former and likely the latter. I'm just repeating what the PT told me. Swimmers, especially females, have over developed chest muscles that leads to the hunch, which I have. I was given exercises to strengthen the back muscle to pull my shoulders back more. I also can not touch my toes. For me it's that the hamstrings are too short that sadly, I passed on to my son. Even when I was ballet dancing, I could not touch my toes no matter how hard I stretched.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Former Member — Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:30:03 GMT

I am not a yoga person and make no judgment about it merits; swimmers that I respect like yoga a lot. But don't these statements seems contradictory? Here are two articles on yoga on the USMS website: www.usms.org/.../articledisplay.php www.usms.org/.../articledisplay.php Thanks for the article links. "contradictory"... Yeah... I guess so... thanks for pointing that out. Poor choice of words I reckon.

RE: When you are not swimming...

Former Member — Sun, 14 Aug 2011 13:04:43 GMT

When I went to PT for bursitis in the shoulder, I was told most swimmers, especially females, have over developed pec muscles which is why so many swimmers have a bit of a hunch in the shoulder area. I was told to sit with my chest out so work on the hunch and to work on my back muscles more. And I am saying that this is incorrect. The problem is a shortened muscle, not an over developed muscle. If you can't touch your toes, is it because your hamstrings are over developed, or your hamstrings are shortened (lack flexibility/elasticity)? It is possible it is the former and likely the latter.