The Mystery of the Breaststroke Armpull

RE: The Mystery of the Breaststroke Armpull

ande — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 10:10:59 GMT

hey y'all, Breastroke is a mystery to me, it's my worst stroke and I'm trying to improve it for the sake of my IMs. Technique and timing are critical. The other day Jon told me to get more streamlined before I kick, makes sense. breastrokers might want to do their pull like this Kitajima Underwater SFF Shanteau here's what made me suggest a wider breastroke pull Tip 162 Sometimes a Slight Technique Modification Can Create a Major Time Improvement Ande

RE: The Mystery of the Breaststroke Armpull

Former Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 09:21:44 GMT

This Kitajima video, during its first few seconds, shows a head-on view of his armpull: YouTube - ‪Kosuke Kitajima 200m Breaststroke Multi-angle Camera‬‏ If you freeze-frame the different phases of his armpull, he appears to begin with a narrow hand position, then does a wide palm-out shallow sculling outsweep, which kind of magically transitions to a high-elbow, vertical-forearm pull, and finally zooming his hands around and through into the recovery. Pure poetry. Is it correct to conclude that he is incorporating the major elements (wide scull, vertical forearm) of both armpull styles?

RE: The Mystery of the Breaststroke Armpull

Elaine Krugman — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 07:42:39 GMT

The complexity of this stroke make it one of the most difficult to teach. Breaststrokers are.... well.... breaststrokers. Would you say there are more style variations in breaststroke, than any other stroke? It seems to me the stroke style that works best is more dependant on the physical build, strength, and physical limitations of a swimmer, more than any of the other strokes.

RE: The Mystery of the Breaststroke Armpull

Former Member — Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:48:47 GMT

The breaststroke kick and pull can contribute unequal percentages of power to the end time / race. Some swimmers can kick faster while other can pull faster. It's important for breaststokers to isolate their pull and kick (a simple timed length or two) to find out the effectiveness of each. Strength is the major determinant of an effective pulling pattern while flexibility in the major determinant of an effective kicking patter (narrow knees / wider feet). Improving a swimmer's strength may be the most effective means of improving their pull. The effective use of drag (EVF) and lift (45 degree hand pitch away and toward midline) make the pulling pattern different from swimmer to swimmer. With this being said, it takes a very experinced coach who can not only analyze the strengths and weaknesses but then advise the appropriate technical treatments needed for the swimmer to improve. So, find out your 25 pull and kick time, have a coach video your stroke pattern then let them make appropriate changes. Swimmers should try to improve both their kick and pull efficiency but when one is clearly deficient the course of action to correct the clear deficiency must take priority. Because the EVF and the amount of time spent in the EVF is so short for the breaststroke, every breaststroker should try to improve it. The lift force will never create more power than drag force but the fluid transition of both is paramount to an effective pull. The breaststroker, unlike the other competitive strokes, can use their lats (as they're pulling and finishing their stroke with their elbows closing to their ribs). The complexity of this stroke make it one of the most difficult to teach. Breaststrokers are.... well.... breaststrokers. Coco Chanel the famous fashion designer must have been talking to a breaststroker when she said, "In order to be irreplaceable one must always be different."

RE: The Mystery of the Breaststroke Armpull

Former Member — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 10:03:49 GMT

Allen, one question I wanted to ask is whether you use a palm-out position at any time during or after the glide phase. If so, does it occur only as you widen your hands to "the corners," or does the actual catch-and-pull begin with the palms still facing outward, as many butterflyers do? Thanks in advance for sharing your hard-won technical secrets...

RE: The Mystery of the Breaststroke Armpull

Elaine Krugman — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 09:20:47 GMT

Now I try to avoid the palms out position as it provides no propulsion.My pull is really heart shaped as I go from hands together ,to angling down to engage the forearms as a propulsive surface, to pulling back with hands little wider than the elbows, to a quick insweep trying to bring the elbows close together into the recovery. King Frog, Dr. G had me eliminate the palms out position, as well, for the same reason. Bob Bugg coached me this week and had me switch to a pull very much like yours. The biggest change he made was keeping my palms down through the pull then making a quick shift to a vertical palm-to-palm position for the recovery. Previously, I was turning the palms up at the end of the insweep and beginning of the recovery. What Bob observed with this position was it was causing too much lift straight up, rather than forward. And, it was causing me to breathe too soon and delay getting my face back down quickly. Immediately after making the change, my stroke was quicker, my head position improved, and my 25m sprint was quicker. Woofus, Ande and Allen have a completely different breaststroke style- and, completely different builds. Ande has the size and strength to be effective with the style he advocates. But, it wouldn't work for everybody and I know it's not the style I should be using if I am to last in this sport. Allen's style works best for him and his body type and it is the best style for me to use, as well, given my physical build and shoulder issues. In other words, in my opinion, both were correct in the debate; but only in regard to themselves and similar body types; not for each other. :2cents:

RE: The Mystery of the Breaststroke Armpull

Allen Stark — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 06:23:53 GMT

RE: The Mystery of the Breaststroke Armpull

Allen Stark — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 05:37:45 GMT

Thank you.I had swum with the wider pull for years until I had a propulsion analysis with Dr. G who recommended the straighter pull.I later went to a clinic by Megan Jendrick who also recommended the straighter pull.I am not sure who benefits more from which pull,but I think people should experiment with each. This is definitely a YMMV.