Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Sun, 24 Jul 2011 07:54:19 GMT

Fred actually had the second most cringeworthy doping positive of 2010- an unfamiliar drug store during Mare Nostrum gave him the wrong cream for chronic painful hemrhoids, and that cream contained a banned substance. (Most cringeworthy was track star Lashawn Merritt saying that 'male enhancement product' Enzyte was the cause of his doping positive test.)

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

mikeh — Sun, 24 Jul 2011 02:35:11 GMT

There are many instances of this that you don't hear about. Fina Aquatics magazine has a doping news section which lists high profile offenders. Freddie Bousquet tested positive for Heptaminol (Stimulant) in June, 2010 and was suspended for 2 months starting in September. American Sean Mahoney tested positive the same month for Methylhexaneamine (Stimulant) following last year's Santa Clara meet and was suspended for 6 months. You may not have heard about either of these. Wow, I had not heard of Fred Bousquet's suspension. What a shame.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:50:44 GMT

A possible solution is that the governing bodies test supplements and make them available (in batches) to athletes who want them. Then, if you go out on your own and consequently fail a test, it is on you. This is a great idea. :applaud:

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:57:26 GMT

I'm not thrilled by the CAS' action on Cielo, but it should be noted that Cielo has effectively used up his free pass in the matter. CAS did uphold FINA's appeal against Vinicus Waked- so it's one year (and consequently no Olympics) for a second offense, even if it is allegedly inadvertent.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:52:24 GMT

I am SO tired of the contaminated supplements excuse!!! Surely there are some first rate companies out there that wouldn't have that problem. While I want to agree with you, I don't think you are correct. A supplement company cannot make money without selling to the public and you cannot mass produce anything and provide a 100% non-contaminated guarantee. It is a fact, you eat bugs when you eat panut butter! A possible solution is that the governing bodies test supplements and make them available (in batches) to athletes who want them. Then, if you go out on your own and consequently fail a test, it is on you. While this is not the case with Cielo, your typical swimmer is making $15,000 per year (I think that is what National B team memebers get), working at starbucks 20 hours a week trying to make the Olympics. These are not millionaires with unlimited resources.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:44:10 GMT

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:30:11 GMT

caffeine is not on the banned substance list, this year. it is part of the monitoring program, therefore there are no penalties if/when it is found in a drug test, at any concentration. you can argue that it does enhance performance, but it doesn't currently meet the definition of a PED, at least according to WADA. It's a drug that enhances performance.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:18:34 GMT

It seems that the more time that goes by, the more people you thought were natural were really cheating all along. Its hard for me to be excited about any elite athelete in today's world, because its starting to feel like all the people who are on the top just haven't been caught yet. :( :afraid:

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 13:13:08 GMT

www.guardian.co.uk/.../cesar-cielo-cas-hearing I think it's funny that contaminated caffeine was the defense, since caffeine is a PED.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 13:01:30 GMT

And now he is officially able to start in china. This case is a big joke for everyone who is fighting against drugs and doping in this world.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

gdanner — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 12:46:26 GMT

I don't typically believe people when they say their supplements were contaminated, but it does happen. Just one month ago, an NFL linebacker won a $5.4 million lawsuit against a supplements company: www.suntimes.com/.../nfl-player-wins-5.4m-in-drug-lawsuit

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

__steve__ — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 12:32:08 GMT

I think caffine might be considered a mild PED when sandbagged, or used with those that have no tolerance (non coffee drinkers). In my case however coffee must be consumed to eliminated withdrwal

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

swimmieAvsFan — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 12:10:08 GMT

It's a drug that enhances performance. at what concentration?

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

aquageek — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 10:59:02 GMT

They test for so many things at such a low concentrations I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially since those who could test the supplements that the swimmers claimed were contaminated only gave them a warning. I don't agree at all. You are responsible for what you put in your body. Even though they test at low levels those things they test for don't show up in a normal non-supplemented diet. I mean, why in the world would you test positive for a masking agent at any level? Tainted meat my ***.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

swimmieAvsFan — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 09:42:05 GMT

www.guardian.co.uk/.../cesar-cielo-cas-hearing I think it's funny that contaminated caffeine was the defense, since caffeine is a PED. caffeine is not on the banned substance list, this year. it is part of the monitoring program, therefore there are no penalties if/when it is found in a drug test, at any concentration. you can argue that it does enhance performance, but it doesn't currently meet the definition of a PED, at least according to WADA.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Jim Clemmons — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 07:44:08 GMT

It would be helpful if the grounds are the actual grounds. ...as in coffee grounds? Or what?

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 07:27:10 GMT

...What confuses me is why these guys are so confident that their caffeine was contaminated. How would one go about deducing that? In the Court of Arbitration for Sport press release: www.tas-cas.org/.../Media20Release20ENGLISH2021.07.11.pdf at the bottom they say will release the grounds for their decision in a few weeks. Until then everyone is just speculating.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

__steve__ — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 07:19:47 GMT

I just glanced over the WADA 2011 prohibited list. Mannitol is included in the "masking" category. I used to work at a pharmaceutical development company, I remember mannitol was used in just about everything as an inactive filler (solvent characteristics). I can see how it's very possible someone can get dinged innocently. But not without some negligence of knowing the details of what's ingested. Even shampoo has banned compounds

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 07:06:43 GMT

I should be more precise. Take Mr. Cielo, for instance, who says that he was using a "caffeine supplement." I use a caffeine supplement every day. It is called Breakfast Blend. Like many of my friends and competitors, I often top off before races. Other caffeine supplements on the market include No Doz and Jolt Gum. What does a "sports supplement" of caffeine offer that No Doz doesn't, aside from either the placebo effect or the occasional dash of something even more metabolically stimulating than caffeine? Your intuition is correct here. Caffeine is most likely the thing that works in a supplement containing caffeine. Everything else is packaging and marketing. Things more stimulating than caffeine do exist, but I'm pretty sure they are all banned by WADA, and some of them are very dangerous. Same with the nutritional supplements, like vitamins or amino acids or whatever. You can buy vitamin supplements and nutritious food in any supermarket. What could a special sports powder offer, aside from the reassurance of a ripped athlete on the label, or for some (un)lucky users the training boost of clenbuterol or methyltestosterone? Again, correct. Protein and creatine can be very good supplements, but they don't need "special ingredients" added. Also, a lot of those supplements just have a bunch of sugar added. That's a severe waste of money. Every "contaminated" supplement story I have ever read has involved products marketed expressly to athletes. I would be pretty surprised if a study showed that No Doz or Centrum or Enriched Malt-O-Meal were "contaminated" with PEDs. But I am not surprised at all that metabolically identical products marketed to athletes are. You're just speculating, and I don't see a difference in marketing. Most supplements are marketed to obsessive health freaks and bodybuilders. I don't think I've ever seen the athlete-oriented things you're talking about. Also, there have been a few cases recently of clenbuterol in meat. So I wouldn't necessarily trust anything just because it's a "mainstream" product. What confuses me is why these guys are so confident that their caffeine was contaminated. How would one go about deducing that?

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:42:01 GMT

There are some things like magnesium that are legitimately hard to get enough of even in an otherwise nutritionally balanced diet.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:25:23 GMT

Don't sports supplements work primarily via the placebo effect? It depends what supplement.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Former Member — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:06:25 GMT

Don't sports supplements work primarily via the placebo effect? In a word, no. Supplements work primarily via the "increased cellular metabolism" effect.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

Speedo — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 04:43:02 GMT

In the Court of Arbitration for Sport press release: www.tas-cas.org/.../Media20Release20ENGLISH2021.07.11.pdf at the bottom they say will release the grounds for their decision in a few weeks. Until then everyone is just speculating.It would be helpful if the grounds are the actual grounds.

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

ourswimmer — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:49:27 GMT

RE: Swimming-Brazil's world champ Cielo tests positive, escapes

fatboy — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:48:56 GMT

Originally Posted by lefty A possible solution is that the governing bodies test supplements and make them available (in batches) to athletes who want them. Then, if you go out on your own and consequently fail a test, it is on you. This is a great idea. :applaud: I think that many people taking supplements are trying to get "an edge" on their opponents. If everyone is taking the same supplements there is no "edge". Don't you think they would still try to find other supplements no sold by the governing body to try and get that advantage. And that's just the ones that are trying to stay legal. If they are knowingly taking a banned substance they will still do so.